Did Jehovah Witness purposefully downgraded Jesus and His sacrifice from the Bible?

anonymous

2012-03-26 16:14:25 UTC

No. Jehovah's Witnesses have done nothing but teach scriptural truths. What have you been doing?

You claim to have been "carefully analyzing" our literature, but when I googled some of your "careful analysis," it came from a website called JW Facts.com

anonymous

2012-03-26 23:22:23 UTC

I can truly say: You are way off-base, on this 1.

You are incorrect in more than a few of your cited examples.

As a matter of fact, we do not down-grade Jesus.

This April 5th, all over the world we will be commemorating

(otherwise, marking the day of) his sacrificial death.

#1) No verses are changed.

Only, the original language texts have been restored.

#2) If you don't believe the Bible when it says "Jesus is the first born of all creation." [Col 1:15]

Then, you need to take that up with Jehovah God, Himself.

#3) Jesus is the mediator between God and man.

Again, take that up with Jehovah God, Himself.

#4) a physical being cannot enter into heaven. Only spiritual beings can enter.

#5) one of my favorites Scriptures, in the book of James.

Disproves what you say here.

Jehovah's Witness or otherwise, Read Your Bible Daily....

avoid such ridiculousness.

ADD:

I am not the one who is blind.

No need to start insulting/ insinuating, the lack of discernment.

In the book of John alone,

Jesus speaks of himself and his God and Father,

as being seperate and distinct individuals.

Your further comments only add to the belief

that you are the one in need of more study, into the Scriptures.

I will go look for the text, that says, flesh cannot enter into heaven,

only spiritual bodies can enter into the heavenly places..

(not citing the text you already provided, proving it already)

Found it, pretty quick, too.

1 Cor 15:40-53. {see especially 40, 44, 50, 52}

.....thank you and good night.

Julius O

2012-03-26 23:12:46 UTC

You list shows that you have not "carefully analyzed" any of our publications.

**Do not be so foolish to think that the watchtower is my one and only source of anything from the bible. I Romans 12:2 constantly. Also 1 Corinthians 2:5, and i am also 1 Timothy 4:15. And i also Psalm 1:2, 3 for 1 hour and 40 minutes a day (averaged over the last 18 months). I also use 4 different bible translations in my studies, as well as a hebrew and greek interlinears. So, there is absolutely no: "blindly believing" of anything.

***pick a few, and ask that. This is not a chat forum. http://answers.yahoo.com/info/community_guidelines;_ylt=Aqn_SPlQeKU4z6y_FRCQWFHd7BR.;_ylv=3

.

anonymous

2012-03-26 23:23:50 UTC

1) None of the Bible verses were changed. You will see the same translation in even protestant Bibles. Even so, scholars agree it is valid if not sound and accurate translation.

2) Tell me, what does "only begotten" mean other than being the only directly created?

3) ?

4) Jesus first rose as a man then turned to spirit in order entry to heaven.

5) Works and by faith, which is exactly what the Bible says. "But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do." James 2:18

6) You don't know that the 144k are merely the chosen to entrance to heaven. The rest of God's people will remain living in paradise earth as described in Genesis concerning God's original plan for mankind. Remember, their were two trees in the middle of the garden of Eden. One of those trees of the tree of life. God meant for man to live on paradise earth forever.

7) Please tell me, when Jesus said he would return, who did he reveal it so? Who did he say would notice? Did he say it would be a spectacle? Look at the world at 1914 and tell me if it seemed that Satan fell to earth with a vengeance.

OP: If you want to believe that an unrepentant murderer who believes is saved then that is your business and you should take that up with Jehovah. The one on the cross near Jesus repented in his heart, and since he wasn't going anywhere fast I would say that I'll let Jesus decide if he proved his repentance or not. No one here has said that grace comes from ourselves, only that a true faith is revealed through action which is exactly what James has said. Mankind has free will and they have a choice to decide to receive this grace or not.

Brian

2012-03-27 02:35:19 UTC

You haven't a clue what you are talking about... are you sure you studied with Jehovah's Witnesses for a whole year?

1) changing several bible verses to disprove Jesus deity.like John 1:1,Col1:16

John 1:1 is a very controversial scripture. "a god" is as correct as "god"

Col 1:16 is implied that everything but Jesus was created.

2)teaching Jesus as created being where as bible does not say He was created

It does say he was created. Trinitarians teach that "firstborn" does not mean "firstborn" but actually means "honored place".

3)Jesus not the mediator for all,rejecting bread n wine in communion

You are actually partially correct here. Congratulations. But you only know this because of the anti-JW sites.

4)Jesus resurrection only in spirit-not physical

Jesus was raised in the spirit. Flesh and blood cannot live in heaven with God. Only spirit people. To deny this is to deny what the Bible teaches.

5)salvation by works(which teaches no value for d blood of Christ for all )

You are very wrong in this. The Bible tells us no works can save us but it also teaches us that faith without works are dead and that only those who obey Jesus will be saved. We work because we have a love for our God and that we want to do his will, not because of the promises he gives us. If you studied with us you would know this because of the Bible Teach book.

6)Salvation for the rest of 144000 by organization(bringing itself in Jesus place).

No. You are wrong again. Salvation is for all. The little flock will be raised to heaven and the rest will be raised to paradise on earth. Only Jesus is the way to the Father.

7)Jesus returned invisible in 1914

He has not returned to the Earth. You REALLY are reading anti-JW websites instead of asking us. If you have not noticed, he has not returned, or paid attention, to the Earth. There is still quite a bit of evil in this world.

Ask yourself why you are wrong in what we believe. Then ask yourself why the anti-JW websites are wrong. The ask me later to explain things to you and I will.

edit:

I did not use scriptures because after a year of studying with us you should know these already. Read what bar-Anerges wrote. It is clear and concise. Oh, BTW, did you ever see me insult you by calling you "dumb"? Please refrain from insulting me.

1 Peter 3:18

Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous [person] for unrighteous ones, that he might lead YOU to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit

1 Tim 3:16

Indeed, the sacred secret of this godly devotion is admittedly great: ‘He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, appeared to angels, was preached about among nations, was believed upon in [the] world, was received up in glory.’

?

2012-03-26 23:26:38 UTC

That is very strange--Jesus himself said that the Father is the only true God-John 17:1-6,John 5:30)--- Also Paul taught only the Father is God-1 Cor 8:6)--- Jesus taught he has a God-- rev 3:12) also Gods word teaches that Jesus must hand back the kingdom( kingship) to his God and Father and become a subject to him---only created beings are subject, not equal beings. And at Proverbs 8:22( talking about Jesus, Gods master worker--said God produced him as the beginning of his ways)

All of the above is bible truth--the trinity translations were altered centuries ago to fit catholocism council teachings--there is alot of proof in existence of that fact. Jehovah=the Father = the only true God.

?

2012-03-26 23:13:29 UTC

That's not all they Did

Matthew 2:2 “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”

Matthew 2:11 “And when they had come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him.”

Matthew 14:33 “Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, Truly you are the Son of God.”

Matthew 28:9 “And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, Rejoice! And they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him.”

Matthew 28:17 “And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.”

John 9:38 “Then he said, ‘Lord, I believe!’ And he worshiped Him.”

Hebrews 1:6 “But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, “Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

The Greek word for worship that is used in all the above verses is proskuneo. Obviously, the NKJV chose to translate this word as worship. The New World Translation (NWT), however, chose to translate this word as obeisance (honor, respect) in all the above verses. What becomes interesting about the NWT, is that whenever the same Greek word, proskuneo, is used in relation to the Father, the translators translated it as worship, even though they rendered it differently in relation to Jesus. (This can be verified by looking in the Watchtower’s own Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures.) Is this a double standard? Is the NWT justified in translating this word 2 different ways; as obeisance to Jesus and as worship to the Father?

anonymous

2012-03-27 08:51:38 UTC

Try this on for size, we didn't change john 1:1.

http://simplebibletruths.net/70-John-1-1-Truths.htm

anonymous

2012-03-27 01:43:26 UTC

Greetings,

You have cited several Trinitarian standard verses. The trouble with every Trinitarian "proof text" is that they require an ignorance of Scriptural terms, context and grammar and require that an interpretation be "read into" them which contradicts the context of Biblical teaching.

Even Trinitarian scholars admit that there is not a single Scripture which proves the Trinity:

"The doctrine of God as existing in three persons and one substance is not demonstrable by logic or by scriptural proofs."--Hastings Dict. of The Bible

Christ NEVER presented himself as equal to Almighty God. He plainly said: "The Father is greater than I" (Jn.14:28).

Jesus plainly said that he did not know what Almighty God knew on earth or in heaven (Mk.13:32; Mt 20:23). He could not do anything on his own (Jn.5:19; 6:38; 8:28).

Jesus was less than Almighty God at every point of his existence (Jn.14:28; 20:17; Mk.13:32; 1Cor.15:27,28; Rev.3:2,12). At the highest position he will ever attain, Jesus is still "subject" to *GOD* the same way we are "subject" to him.

Actually, Christ clearly and explicitly excluded himself from receiving *sacred* worship.

You cite verses such as Mt.2:2, 14:33, 28:9 and Hb.1:6 in which the KJV says some "worshiped" Christ. But, this requires us to have an ignorance of the different Greek words translated as "worship" in the KJV: PROSKENEW and LATREUW.

You also cite Lk. 4:8 but you fail to note that here Jesus himself made it clear that ONLY his God Jehovah was to receive "sacred worship" or LATREUW:

"And Jesus answered him: "Scripture says—'Thou shalt do homage (PROSKUNHW) to the Lord thy God, and worship (LATREUW) him ONLY.'"--20TH Century NT:

"The Lord thy God, shalt thou worship, and, UNTO HIM ALONE, render divine service."--Rotherham's:

Jesus here showed that "sacred worship" (LATREUW) was to be rendered "ONLY" to God. And LATREUW is never rendered by one of the faithful to anyone other than the Most High God Jehovah.

LATREUW is NEVER given to Jesus in eighter the LXX or N.T.

The type of "worship" given to Jesus is PROSKUNEO (obeisance) and is only the same given to humans (Ex. 18:7; Heb. 1:6; 2Chron. 29:20; Rev.3:9). Obviously, just because humans receive PROSKUNEO hardly means that they are God. Nor does it mean that Jesus is God.

Jesus is given homage as God's anointed representative--not as God but as "God's Son" or the Messianic "Son of man."- (Mt 14:32,33; Lk 24:50-52; Jn 9:35, 38).

Trinitarians must ignore or minimize this evidence.

Next neither Russell nor any of Jehovah's Witnesses have never said that we "worship" Jesus as we do Jehovah. Fifty to one hundred years ago the first issues of the NWT followed the lexical knowledge of that time and translated PROSKENEW as "worship," just like the KJV. The first edition of the NWT also read "worship" in Heb. 1:6. However, there was no conflict here as this was in keeping with the usage of the word in the Bible, and in common use a half-century ago. Witnesses have always taught that "worship" given to Jesus was the same relative "worship" that humans gave kings and rulers in the bible.

Even as little as 50 years ago the word "worship" was commonly used in reference to both humans and God. The "Book of Common Prayer" has the groom promising his bride, "with my body I thee worship" as he places the ring on her finger.

Even modern Bibles still apply the word "worship" to humans at Dan.2:46: "Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel." (ASV, WEB, NAB, NRSV).

So, the NWT has updated their translation due to increased knowledge of words original meanings. They are simply doing what all other honest translators do: they revise their translation as modern word definitions change.

The fact is that ALL Bible translations render this word both as "worship," "bow down" or "obeisance" depending on the context (cf. Jn.4:23,24 w/ Mt 18:26 and Rev.3:9 in RSV, YLT, LIT, NJB, NIV, & NEB). Translators are following correct translation principles in rendering it as "worship" when given to God and "bowing down" when given to someone else.

Everyone would agree that when someone "bows down" to a human or angel they would not be "worshiping" that person as they would Almighty God. So in these cases translators mostly render PROSKUNEO as "bow down" or "obeisance."

The trouble is when the theology of the translator comes into play, in this case when someone gives PROSKUNEO to Christ. This means that the reader must look at the context (immediate and greater) and determine which rendering conveys the accurate teaching of the Bible regarding Christ.

So, while PROSKEUNEW can be used to indicate reverence given to God, only by resorting to theological bias can anyone insist that this term indicates that Jesus is receiving worship equal to Almighty God.

Yours,

BAR-ANERGES

anonymous

2012-03-26 23:16:10 UTC

Do you really believe that Jesus was a God? what an iddiot !

anonymous

2012-03-26 23:12:47 UTC

If you carefully analyze the bible you will see it is full if contradictions and other bullshit

?

2012-03-26 23:15:09 UTC

YES!, that is one of the worse religions in the world . it is as close to demon worship as you can get :(:(:(