Question:
Atheist furfy - " Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"?
anonymous
2014-03-04 15:24:34 UTC
The New Testament describes Jesus death resurrection and ascension , and over 500 eyewitness accounts gave testimony to this , Ordinary people , giving their testimony .
What happened subsequent to that , was the persecution of these ordinary people to recant their testimony , under pain of martyrdom , a truth they held to their peril .However , in spite of this , those witnesses , and their ordinary truth claim , and by the leading of the holy spirit , them holding to their faith , sees our Lord as much in our Christian faith today , as a testimony to the eye witnesses truth , held dear in a Christians heart .
The extraordinary things like the Big Bang , Multiverse , Panspermia being gobbled up by atheists , yet there is no eye witnesses , no testable evidence , no historic record , Double standard ? i think so .
Eye witness accounts , the empty tomb - all tangible ordinary evidence .,
Can atheists say the same for their extraordinary claims ?
Do you have a evidence of any kind - to back your atheism ? because Christianity does .
Seventeen answers:
anonymous
2014-03-04 19:25:53 UTC
I always try to consider the source.

One time I had a tough time with someone everyone hated, but no one said anything...ever seen that? I was young, thought someone should have the guts to tell him. so I did, and did so with astute bad location.

He persecuted me hard, strange, it seemed as if he simultaneously had respect?? I saw my union, and this wonderful man

Chuckled... How dare he!..and said...consider the source.

So, what was in it for the eye witnesses except rejection, hatred, and death!!...recant or die...I trust people who risk all, whose lives were turned around by Jesus.

The source re atheists? No hope, no reason, no purpose beyond their own fabrication. How does that source compare? None.
?
2014-03-04 15:27:18 UTC
All four gospels have contradictory accounts of the resurrection. None of the authors were witnesses. This is not good evidence.



People claimed to see Elvis within a few years after his death. Imagine how much a story can change in the time between Jesus' death and the writing of Mark's gospel. People die for wrong ideas all the time- look at 9/11. Willingness to die for an idea is not proof that that idea is true.
?
2014-03-04 15:35:45 UTC
There is no independent evidence of the gospel claims, and those "500 witnesses" probably didn't exist. One person who was not there claimed years later that there were 500 witnesses, but there's nothing to back up that assertion and, again, no independent verification.





If you think the claimed testimony of eyewitnesses should be taken at face value, why don't you accept the testimony of the hundreds of eyewitnesses who saw Julius Caesar ascend into the sky after his death? Surely you should believe every word of that tale.
anonymous
2014-03-04 15:31:04 UTC
You have nothing but one book or derivative works with the claims. That is not extraordinary evidence thats a fairy tale.



Who were these 500? What were their names? What did they do? Why couldn't they speak for themselves? There are no contemporary writings from that time to back this up. Even from the most meticulous of record keepers in that era.. the Romans.



Edit: Scripture is hearsay.. which is never excepted as evidence

The dead sea scrolls was old testament only. You really are a troll aren't you.
Daniel
2014-03-04 15:27:33 UTC
Where is the testimony? To our knowledge, the first "eyewitness" accounts did not appear until 40 to 70 years after the events allegedly took place. (The Gospels)



Of the secular sources, there is no evidence or written account of an empty tomb, or of a sighting since.
Ricardo
2014-03-04 18:13:42 UTC
The New Testament describes Jesus death resurrection and ascension ,



- And spideman comics describes his abilities. SO?



and over 500 eyewitness accounts gave testimony to this , Ordinary people , giving their testimony .



- And of course you have their names and addresses so we can interview them.



was the persecution of these ordinary people to recant their testimony



- Who can understand the mind of the psychopath.



The extraordinary things like the Big Bang , Multiverse , Panspermia being gobbled up by atheists , yet there is no eye witnesses



- Please list for me the eye witnesses to the genesis account. Also, if you are correct then NO crime would ever be solved if there were no eye witnesses. but that is one of those intelligent things that confuse you.



no testable evidence



- MASSIVE testable evidence since that is all they have.



no historic record



- Your ignorance is appalling, even for a fundie.



Double standard ? i think so .



- No, your fantasy witnesses verses testable evidence, you cannot understand it, but that does not mean it doesn't exist.



the empty tomb



- WOW, that proves it for me, there has never been an empty tomb in all of history.



Can atheists say the same for their extraordinary claims



- Yes, it is callled intelligence and sience.



because Christianity does .



- Only in your fantasies.



A court of law holds eye witness accounts as evidence , for good reason



- It is considered the lowest form of evidence and one little problem with your fantasies, they actually exist in those courts. If youwalked into any legitimate court on this planet and said, I can prove it becuase 500 witnesses who are dead and buried prove it, you would be laughed out of the building.



The book of Mathew has been unearthed in the Dead Sea Scrolls , seperate to , but verbatim of scripture .



- SO? It was made up 70 years after the fact.
ANDRE L
2014-03-04 15:43:52 UTC
Lying For Jeezus is still LYING; Thank you for the added evidence that religion = BAD morals.



Hundreds saw the events in the Harry Potter books, or so say those books.



You clearly fail to understand what the word -testimony- means, which is that the people who are claimed to have seen an event ARE available to be cross examined. That clearly CANNOT be done with any of your claimed 'witnesses'.



Thank you for not being involved in the legal system, you are far too willfully stupid to last 5 minutes in that field, where clear words and accurate TESTIMONY matter.



"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived." Isaac Asimov
anonymous
2014-03-04 17:48:16 UTC
You seem to misunderstand something very fundamental here.

Atheists don't believe God exists - that is ALL.



Jesus could have been resurrected, anything is possible (Houdini made an elephant disappear, David Copperfield made the Statue of Liberty disappear).

But whether all the inconsistent stories about Christ are true (even his disciples don't agree with each other as to the events) doesn't mean God exists.



Atheists don't believe God exists - you claim God does exist. That claim is what you need to prove.
Gone
2014-03-04 16:36:56 UTC
everard wrote:

“Just think how insightful a book that actually came from a Creator would be...

Beautiful mathematics, comprehensive laws of physics, clear biology, consistent morality and ethics among other gems.

That's actually right. I claim I was lead by God in rewriting the laws of diffusion, connectingit to molar mass of the proton, and the fine-structure constant. the laws ar insanely precise, and the definition of mass goes to 10 ppm precision ,,, finestructure constant is dead accurate.



The math is beautiful in its simplicity..... the part I added was: objectivity is rooted in the integers and transcendental numbers. Seems it's not a big deal here, but in Heaven, Holy Toledo what a ruckus that caused! "He got it!!!!!" They shouted, "He figured it out! He knows!" some sort of endless party followed.That way I was able to objectively derive the value of the proton. You see, either it is or it isn't, and the integers and transcendental numbers make that possible. of course you have to know the missing universal constant, 1/2 squareroot pi over e. Pi is space e is time. note it falls under the square root sign. space-time is defined for positive numbers.....pi/e and it relates to mass. Also the size of the dark field is pi times the size not-dark-field at rest.
anonymous
2014-03-04 19:56:26 UTC
I believe the Whole Word of God. I have no problem with it nor do I come against what it says about God/Jesus/Holy Spirit for my own ego for I have laid it at the foot of the cross so that I can be a living witness to Jesus Christ as He is my Lord and Savior.

I am not jealous of Him being who He is and I do not seek my own gains as the world does of Jesus Christ who died for our sins which are many.



(((Imago Dei)))
torpex2002
2014-03-04 15:26:31 UTC
Aww bless, you think eye witness accounts are credible evidence.



How cute.



Not that you have any, but still.





"A court of law holds eye witness accounts as evidence"



But not as good evidence, for good reason. Now add on top of that, an extraordinary claim. Would a court of law accept the claim that Elvis is still alive?
anonymous
2014-03-04 15:55:19 UTC
Nonsense...



1Corinthians13:11

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things... and stopped believing.



The bible was written by deluded men and hijacked by unscrupulous men to hold sway and power over weak-minded men



“I hate to break it to you but the bibel is not the inspired word of God.

It was written by a bunch of desert baked primitive nomads who ate bugs and honey.

Of course they saw God!”



“How could the biblical authors, who were said to have been so close to God and what he knew, have been so ignorant?”



“Just think how insightful a book that actually came from a Creator would be...

Beautiful mathematics, comprehensive laws of physics, clear biology, consistent morality and ethics among other gems.



Instead we get a bizarre book on talking snakes, burning bushes, slaves, Neolithic philosophy and a strange preoccupation with everyone's sex life”.



Quite frankly, if you need the carrot and stick idea of heaven and hell to behave, then you're not a moral person at all; you're a sociopath leashed by fear and self-interest.



https://s.yimg.com/hd/answers/i/24ee61d5f88d4ff68440748484e0b71b_A.jpeg?a=answers&mr=0&x=1391849194&s=e58d6f89d6ffb5c38253cdb6722cb45e

~
?
2014-03-04 17:48:35 UTC
Becki Claims "500 witnesses" is a later interpolation, not present in our earliest and best manuscripts. (Moreover do you believe everything you read?)

Source(s):

Prof. Bart Ehrman """



Becki if you did any actual reading into the historicity of the new testament then you would know that what ehrman says about the 500 witnesses isnt an interpolation, but erhman asserts its an interpolation. There is no evidence of that at all. The only evidence ehrman provides is that because it isnt in the other gospels therefore it is wrong. That is totally retarded. No wonder your an atheist Becki, you cant use common sense. If anything this is another powerful testiment to the truthfullness of the gospel writers that each were allowed to write what they wanted on their experience of the risen Christ.



http://www.christiancadre.org/member_contrib/cp_interpolation.html



The 500 Brethren



In addition to arguing that 1 Corinthians 15:3-11 is incompatible with Galatians 2, Dr. Price argues that the appearance of Jesus to the 500 recounted in v. 6 is evidence of an interpolation because it is not recounted in any of the Gospels. He asks, “If the claim of 500 witnesses were early tradition, can anyone explain its total absence from the gospel tradition?”18



For Dr. Price, the answer is obviously, “No.” But this reported appearance has two features that distinguish it from the other appearances reported in the Gospels. The "500 brethren" are not named and the emphasis is on many of them still being alive. Some commentators have observed that the Gospels, written decades later, had less interest in recounting anonymous appearances -- especially when consulting those witnesses was no longer feasible. Additionally, some scholars believe that the emphasis given to particular resurrection appearances in particular Gospels are meant to emphasize the leadership and authority of those leaders. Thus, Peter for example had an ongoing influence on the early church and the resurrection appearance to him was retained in the Gospels. Obviously, this purpose would not be served by referring to the anonymous 500.



In closing my lightly mentally deranged becki, there is no evidence that the 500 withnesses is an interpolation added later. Remember that your taking the word of Bart Ehrman, the same guy who says that because there are over 200,000 errors in the bible that we can never know the true gospel message, what Bart ehrman doesnt tell his retarded and naive audience is that almost none of those 200,000 erros effects the foundation of the biblical message at all.

Ehrman makes claims like these to sell his books (make money) but when he is pressed about it by professional theologians he admits that these errors dont effect the gospel message at all, they are simply grammatical and spelling errors.



Becki, do youself a favor and do some actual reading before you regurgitate something about the bible. It makes it too easy for me to make a fool out of you lol.



And imagodei, the atheists claim of extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence is totally BS. If something happened and it has been established as happening, even if it happens just once, is good enough to qualify us to believe in that evidence.



One of the best evidences I use is the shroud of turin.

I challenged becki to an email debate on the shroud of turin right now.

But me and becki both know that she wont email me about it because she is too insecure about her atheism to have her worldview challenged. Almost all atheists are intellectual cowards.



The last atheist that accepted my challenge on the shroud is no longer an atheist, but an agnostic with future Christian possibilities.



ImagoDei, I applaud you on putting up with these atheists here, as you can see their lack of critical thinking has proven a point that medical science is starting to find out, namely that atheism is a sort of light mental illness which doesnt allow them to spot purpose in the world the way a mentally normally wired person can.



http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2010/05/29/people-with-aspergers-less-likely-to-see-purpose-behind-the-events-in-their-lives/



In a second experiment, Heywood and Bering compared 27 people with Asperger’s with 34 neurotypical people who are atheists. The atheists, as expected, often invoked anti-teleological responses such as “there is no reason why; things just happen.” The people with Asperger’s were significantly less likely to offer such anti-teleological explanations than the atheists, indicating they were not engaged in teleological thinking at all. (The atheists, in contrast, revealed themselves to be reasoning teleologically, but then they rejected those thoughts.)



Torpex, if elvis was making appearances to crowds of reliable people then why cant he be alive. There is a difference between witnesses and reliable witnesses. The 500 witnesses that saw Jesus were actually Jews who were considered hostile witnesses and therefore more reliable then most witnesses. Remember that in 1st century jerusalem almost none of the jews believed in a bodily resurrection, but a spiritual one. This is all the more reason to accept the part about the 500 witnesses. Anotehr damaging part of the gospel message to atheists is the fact that the apostles were willing to embarress themselves enough to speak the truth about the women finding Christ's tomb empty first. If they wanted to lie they never would have said this because a woman's testimony in 1st century jersualem was worth lower then dirt. You seem to need to do some critical thinking my friend.



Poldi- wrong again atheists dont just disbelieve in God's existence, they hate his existence so your ilk has a bias against God which tells me deep down inside that atheists dont want God to exist and will not take any evidence for his existence. Atheism is more a dogmatic cult and an emotional worldview then an intellectual position.

Like I said we can discuss teh shroud of turin if you like and ill prove to you how your atheistic beliefs are more emotional and dogmatic then intellectual and rational.
five toed sloth
2014-03-04 15:27:56 UTC
"...over 500 eyewitness accounts gave testimony to this , Ordinary people , giving their testimony"



Can you post a link to some of these testimonies please?
?
2014-03-04 15:29:22 UTC
You're funny. The supernatural is wishful thinking.
Al
2014-03-04 15:25:57 UTC
"500 witnesses" is a later interpolation, not present in our earliest and best manuscripts. (Moreover do you believe everything you read?)
anonymous
2014-03-04 15:27:57 UTC
You have no evidence it is ok. Just admit it and move on. You don't have to rant about it.


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