Question:
Why do Jehovah Witnesses mis-translate the words "I AM"(Ego Eimi) in their New World Translation?
2010-10-24 15:41:57 UTC
John 8:58(I AM)---Ego Eimi------- declares the deity of Christ. Jesus is equal with God. The Jehovah Witnesses translate "I am" to mean "I HAVE BEEN". This is a mis-translation of the original Greek(Septuagint).

First of all let us look at the definition of the perfect tense is according to Strong:

5778 Tense - Perfect

The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in
English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been
completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be
repeated.

Certain antiquated verb forms in Greek, such as those related
to seeing (eidw) or knowing (oida) will use the perfect tense
in a manner equivalent to the normal past tense. These few
cases are exception to the normal rule and do not alter the
normal connotation of the perfect tense stated above.

The problem with this verse is the Greek word for “am” which is “eimi” whose definition is:

1510 eimi {i-mee'}

the first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of
a primary and defective verb; TDNT - 2:398,206; v

AV - I am + 1473 74, am 55, it is I + 1473 6, be 2, I was + 1473 1,
have been 1, not tr 7; 146

1) to be, to exist, to happen, to be present

Here we see that “eimi’ is in it’s normal tense is in the present indicative, but, we also see that it is a defective verb meaning that is an antiquated verb form brought over from the classical Greek. Therefore can it possibly be translated in the perfect tense at the Watchtower states? No, why? Lets look at the rules of translating found in The New Analyical Greek Lexicon. When we look up “eimi” word 1510 we will see that the perfect tense is not listed because it dose not exists for this word! Although he does state this: “It (eimi) also forms a frequent circumlocution with the participles of the present and perfect of other verbs.” So we see that “eimi” can be translated in the perfect tense only when it is used in conjunction with other verbs. The problem for the Watchtower here is that “eimi” is not being used in conjunction with another verb in this verse, therefore it must be translated in the present indicative tense.

This same exact phrase letter for letter appears 47 other times in the N.W.T. and all 47 times it is translated “I am” not “I have been” ! Why does the Watchtower have such a hard time translating this verse? Is it not because it conflicts with their own doctrine? An because it conflicts with their doctrine about Jesus Christ they must tamper with this verse! They must change it, in order to perpetrate their lies upon themselves and their own people! They must throw up their smoke screen to conceal the fact that Jesus said he was the I Am making himself equal with Jehovah!
Nine answers:
Bill C
2010-10-24 15:48:13 UTC
One correction: The Septuagint is a Greek translation of the Old Testament, it is NOT the text of the New Testament.



Nevertheless, you are correct. John 8:58 is deliberately mistranslated in the NWT. Their translation is not grammatically possible, but they cling to it rigidly with flawed explanations that a first year Greek student would see right through.
Abernathy the Dull
2010-10-24 18:53:58 UTC
If the NWT's John 8:58 is wrong, then the NIV, NASB, and KJV is wrong at John 15:27 which has the same syntax:



John 8:58-

πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί

before Abraham was born I am



John 15:27-

ἀπ' ἀρχῆς μετ' ἐμοῦ ἐστε

from beginning with me you-are



Both begin with an indicator of past time (before/from beginning), and both end with the Greek verb 'to be' (I am, you are)



However, because of doctrinal bias, most translations will translate John 8:58 hyperliterally as if it's an interlinear translations, but then follow the regular standards of translation for John 15:27.



Biblical Greek has a function of the Present Tense that is called 'Extension From Past' (or something similar). This is often discussed at length in *advanced* Greek grammars (like Moulton or Wallace). So Bill C is right in that *first year* Greek students might have a problem translating a Greek Present Tense form into the English Perfect Tense. But advanced students should know about Greek's 'Extension From Past.'



So when the most popular English translations render John 15:27's Greek Present Tense form into English's Perfect Tense, they inadvertently show that the NWT is correct in John 8:58.



As the NIV shows, John 15:27 isn't 'From the beginning with me, you are.' It is properly rendered 'You have been with me from the beginning.'



Also of note, Goodspeed's and Moffat's translations of John 8:58 are similar to the NWT's. And the NASB's original footnote for John 8:58 matched the NWT's (but was later stripped from the translation, probably because of anti-NWT sentiment).



It is also of note that the earliest 'church fathers,' even including Athanasius, never connected John 8:58 with Exodus 3:14. Rather, their references to John 8:58 shows that they understood it to be referring to Christ's pre-existence, and not his identity.
?
2016-06-04 06:53:15 UTC
You say that the exact phrase 'ego eimi' - I am - is translated exactly the same in all 47 times it appears in the NWT. However, this is a misleading argument that fools only those who are not familiar with biblical Greek and the principles of translation. This is because the present tense form of the verb 'eimi' is NOT always translated into the present tense in English but sometimes in the perfect tense - this applies not only to the NWT but to *all* of the most popular English translations! Here are to examples of a Greek phrase that has a form of 'eimi' in the present tense but is rendered in the perfect tense in English translations: John 14:9 - τοσοῦτον χρόνον μεθ' ὑμῶν εἰμι such time with you I am John 15:27 - ἀπ' ἀρχῆς μετ' ἐμοῦ ἐστε from beginning with me you are In both cases, popular translations such as the NIV and NASB follow the translating principles that the NWT did in John 8:58 - John 14:9 - I have been among you such a long time. (NIV) John 15:27 - You have been with me from the beginning. (NIV) Note the use of 'have been' in both verses for a Greek present tense original, just like the NWT in John 8:58.
JimBrewski
2010-10-24 21:44:20 UTC
Gr., (prin A·bra·am' ge·ne'sthai e·go' ei·mi')

Fourth/Fifth Century

“before Abraham was, I have been”

Syriac—Edition: A Translation of the Four Gospels from the Syriac of the Sinaitic Palimpsest, by Agnes Smith Lewis, London,1894.

Fifth Century

“before ever Abraham came to be, I was”

Curetonian Syriac—Edition: The Curetonian Version of the Four Gospels, by F.Crawford Burkitt, Vol. 1, Cambridge, England, 1904.

Fifth Century

“before Abraham existed, I was”

Syriac Peshitta—Edition: The Syriac New Testament Translated into English from the Peshitto Version, by James Murdock, seventh ed., Boston and London, 1896.

Fifth Century

“before Abraham came to be, I was”

Georgian—Edition: “The Old Georgian Version of the Gospel of John,” by Robert P. Blake and Maurice Brière, published in Patrologia Orientalis, Vol. XXVI, fascicle 4, Paris, 1950.

Sixth Century

“before Abraham was born, I was”

Ethiopic—Edition: Novum Testamentum . . . Æthiopice (The New Testament . . . in Ethiopic), by Thomas Pell Platt, revised by F. Praetorius, Leipzig, 1899.

The action expressed in Joh 8:58 started “before Abraham came into existence” and is still in progress. In such situation (ei·mi'), which is the first-person singular present indicative, is properly translated by the perfect indicative. Examples of the same syntax are found in Lu 2:48; 13:7; 15:29; Joh 5:6; 14:9; 15:27; Ac 15:21; 2Co 12:19; 1Jo 3:8.

Concerning this construction, A Grammar of the Idiom of the New Testament, by G. B. Winer, seventh edition, Andover, 1897, p. 267, says: “Sometimes the Present includes also a past tense (Mdv. 108), viz. when the verb expresses a state which commenced at an earlier period but still continues,—a state in its duration; as, Jno. xv. 27 [ap’ ar·khes' met’ e·mou' e·ste'], viii. 58 [prin A·bra·am' ge·ne'sthai e·go' ei·mi].”

Likewise, A Grammar of New Testament Greek, by J. H. Moulton, Vol. III, by Nigel Turner, Edinburgh, 1963, p. 62, says: “The Present which indicates the continuance of an action during the past and up to the moment of speaking is virtually the same as Perfective, the only difference being that the action is conceived as still in progress . . . It is frequent in the N[ew] T[estament]: Lk 2:48 13:7 . . . 15:29 . . . Jn 5:6 8:58 . . . ”

Attempting to identify Jesus with Jehovah, some say that (e·go' ei·mi') is the equivalent of the Hebrew expression ’ani' hu’, “I am he,” which is used by God. However, it is to be noted that this Hebrew expression is also used by man.—See 1Ch 21:17 ftn.

Further attempting to identify Jesus with Jehovah, some try to use Ex 3:14 (LXX) which reads: (E·go' ei·mi ho on), which means “I am The Being,” or, “I am The Existing One.” This attempt cannot be sustained because the expression in Ex 3:14 is different from the expression in Joh 8:58. (See Ex 3:14 ftn.) Throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures it is not possible to make an identification of Jesus with Jehovah as being the same person.—See 1Pe 2:3 ftn; App 6A, 6E.
c.a.b.
2010-10-24 15:51:44 UTC
John 8:58:

RS reads: “Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am [Greek, e‧go′ ei‧mi′].’” (NE, KJ, TEV, JB, NAB all read “I am,” some even using capital letters to convey the idea of a title. Thus they endeavor to connect the expression with Exodus 3:14, where, according to their rendering, God refers to himself by the title “I Am.”) However, in NW the latter part of John 8:58 reads: “Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” (The same idea is conveyed by the wording in AT, Mo, CBW, and SE.)

Which rendering agrees with the context? The question of the Jews (verse 57) to which Jesus was replying had to do with age, not identity. Jesus’ reply logically dealt with his age, the length of his existence. Interestingly, no effort is ever made to apply e‧go′ ei‧mi′ as a title to the holy spirit.

Says A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research, by A. T. Robertson: “The verb [ei‧mi′] . . . Sometimes it does express existence as a predicate like any other verb, as in [e‧go′ ei‧mi′] (Jo. 8:58).”—Nashville, Tenn.; 1934, p. 394.

See also NW appendix, 1984 Reference edition, pp. 1582, 1583.
conundrum
2010-10-24 15:48:23 UTC
The expression at John 8:58 is quite different from the one used at Exodus 3:14. Jesus did not use it as a name or a title but as a means of explaining his prehuman existence. Hence, note how some other Bible versions render John 8:58:

1869: “From before Abraham was, I have been.” The New Testament, by G. R. Noyes.

1935: “I existed before Abraham was born!” The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed.

1965: “Before Abraham was born, I was already the one that I am.” Das Neue Testament, by Jörg Zink.

1981: “I was alive before Abraham was born!” The Simple English Bible.

1984: “Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.

Thus, the real thought of the Greek used here is that God’s created “firstborn,” Jesus, had existed long before Abraham was born.—Colossians 1:15; Proverbs 8:22, 23, 30; Revelation 3:14.

Again, the context shows this to be the correct understanding. This time the Jews wanted to stone Jesus for claiming to “have seen Abraham” although, as they said, he was not yet 50 years old. (Verse 57) Jesus’ natural response was to tell the truth about his age. So he naturally told them that he “was alive before Abraham was born!”—The Simple English Bible.

Jehovah's Witnesses love to educate.
missleslie
2010-10-24 19:38:21 UTC
I never did this good in School so I am just going to make it simple as the truth that I understand by the Holy Spirit.{.God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit, that is given to us by Christ{The comforter} are all in the God Head and are equal to each other as who they represent} GOD! they all have their own positions on the planet and in the universe of their particular Jobs and these Jobs are not the Same. They all think a like and are all persons in their rights...and they are all apart of the Creation. Only God can Create. God will read the JW hearts and the mormons and every other religious sects on the Planet. God knows each individual personally how they can learn and what they need to accept Christ as their Savior. I believe God put me where I have learned from because He knew I was the type of person that had to have all questions answered and it had to prove itself out to me. I am a ' WHY' person and nothing less would of worked for me. The Bible is the Whole truth, from Start to finish and there is nothing left out in the Middle and no one gets to rewrite it into what they think is the Whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help me God.. Matthew 5:18--"For verily I say unto you"Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled"..Rev. 22:18,19---"For I testify to every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. And if any man shall take away from the words of this book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."Now this says it all. This book is the King James and there are other translations written that are pretty close to this book KJV. The Book it self is not inspired as much as the person who is reading it. The Holy Spirit can reach you in any place you are at or in that your Heart wants to walk with God is your soul desire. I do not know other Spiritual writing out there but I do know that if they do not coincide with this book, the Holy Bible...then they are off the path. Truth will come to them before Christ does if Truth is what they desire. This is what the Holy Bible reads and I can not believe in any other Book than this. Each has their own choice to read the Truth and learn History of Christs teachings from Genesis to Revelation..IN THIS BOOK! This is not my work of writting but Gods writtings in Heaven, Scripture quotes only
2010-10-25 23:13:33 UTC
Greetings,



As usual, every argument denigrating the NWT demands ignorance from its hearers regarding biblical grammar, definitions and usage. They also require us to be ignorant of the context and resort to logical fallacies. This question commits several exegetical and Logical Fallacies (Appeal to selective evidence; incomplete research).



This question’s argument is only effective if someone is completely unlearned in Greek, or grammar in general.



This questioner requires us to be ignorant of the fact that scores of other Translations render EGO EIMI here in the perfect tense just as the NWT has and also differently from everywhere else in their versions (I can provide a list of over 40). This fact demonstrates that there must be a grammatical reason for rendering Jn.8:58 with the English perfect tense, and the criticism of the NWT is proved false.



When versions translate EGO EIMI "exactly the same way it is translated in other verses" the result is verbal nonsense. Any translation which capitalizes "I Am" as if it were a title is ridiculous. EGO EIMI is not a title in Jn.8:58 nor in Ex.3. It is the main clause (subject and verb) and is modified by the adverbial phrase "Before Abraham was born." It is easy to see how nonsensical these translation are by substituting a name for EGW EIMI: "Before Abraham was born, Fred."





First, those who claim that "I am" is a more literal translation of EGW EIMI are incorrectly mixing up the English present tense with the Greek "present." The Greek present is an "aspect" rather than a tense. It presents part of an action as occurring without a grammatical reference to time.



Rendering EGO EIMI at Jn.8:58 with the present tense "I am" is grammatically erroneous. When EIMI is not used as a copula it ALWAYS DESCRIBES A STATE and IS THE GREEK IMPERFECT FORM, both which denote duration and not a punctiliar event.



“I am (eimi) never has a punctiliar ending".—Edward Goodrick; Hebrew and Greek



Those who criticizing the NWT for rendering the Greek present tense EGO EIMI into the English perfect tense "I have been" while claiming that "I am" is the more literal translation are promoting an ignorance of the Greek present tense.





Second, comparing EGO EIMI in Jn.8:58 with the other N.T. occurrences is misleading. Just a little research would show that EGO EIMI is grammatically used in a completely different way in Jn.8:58 from the other examples. In the other verses EIMI is used as a "copula" between the subject and predicate, but in Jn.8:58 EIMI does not function as a copula but it is part of the predicate.



The other occurrences all have an explicit or implied predicate complement such as “I am [the Messiah]”, “I am [he].” Jesus uses the expression primarily as a means of identifying himself as the Messiah (Jn 4:26; 13:19), the Son of man (Jn 8:24, 28), as "Jesus" (Jn 18:1-6), and as a means of simple self-identification, "It is I" (Jn 6:20). Similarly, the predicateless EGW EIMI is used by the man born blind (Jn 9:9). There is nothing in the use of EGW EIMI which would identify the speaker as God.





Third, unlike the other examples it also is used with an ADVERBIAL IN THE PAST TENSE which changes its import. When a Greek present verb occurs with a temporal clause it can throw the starting point into the past. In Jn 8:58 there is a temporal clause referring to past time "PRIN ABRAAM GENSQAI." Notice what Greek Grammars have to say:



E. D. Burton says: "The Present Indicative, accompanied by an adverbial expression denoting duration and referring to past time, is sometimes used in Greek to describe an action which, beginning in past time, is still in progress at the time of speaking. ENGLISH IDIOM REQUIRES THE USE OF THE PERFECT IN SUCH CASES."--"Syntax of the Moods and Tenses in N T Greek: section 17,



Greek scholar A. T. Robertson says: "The Progressive Present- Often it has to be translated into English by a sort of "progressive PERFECT" ('HAVE BEEN')."--A Grammar of N T Greek in the Light of Historical Research, p. 879



Sanders and Masten in "Harper's N T Commentaries, p. 158: "To describe a state continuing up to the present, Greek uses the present tense where ENGLISH USES THE PERFECT; cf. Jn 8:58."



The Greek Grammars of Winer and J. H. Moulton also include Jn 8:58 where such a perfect is warranted:



"The present which indicates the continuance of an action during the past and up to the moment is virtually the same as Perfective, the only difference being that the action is conceived as still in progress...it is frequent in N.T.: Lk. 2:48; 13:7; 15:29, Jn.5:6, 8:58".—Moulton; A Grammar of the N.T.





Therefore, many translators recognized that translating EGW EIMI with a perfect form (I have been) is in full accord with correct Greek grammar. In fact, as the above quotes show, Greek syntax demands that it be translated with a form of the perfect and not a present tense like "I am."



Both "I am" and "I have been" are strict literal translations of the Greek words. Since the Greek imperfect aspect denotes a continuing state and EGW EIMI never has a punctiliar sense only "I have been" accurately renders the meaning of the original Greek. The punctiliar rendering "I am" is much less accurate nor does it reflect the Greek "Extension from Past" idiom.



The Jews were asking Christ how long he had been around, not who he was. Grammatically, it must be translated in a way that indicates existence that started in the past and continues to the present. "I am" indicates only the present, so "I have been" is a more accurate translation (cf. Jn. 14:9).





The translation "I am" at Jn.8:58 is simply an unqualified case of theological bias–an illegitimate attempt to link Christ's words with what is falsely claimed to be a "divine title."



The Jews were asking Jesus how long he had been around, not who he was. Grammatically, it must be translated in a way that indicates existence that started in the past and continues to the present. "I am" indicates only the present, so it is more correctly translated as "I have been." Evidence for this can be found at Jn. 14:9 where most translators render EIMI as "I have been" or "have I been?" This done at Jn 14:9 but not at 8:58 because Trinitarian translators are desperately trying to find support for their belief and disregarding Greek (and English) grammar.





Trinitarians like to keep people in ignorance of the fact that many translations give the correct English understanding and so read "I tell you I existed before Abraham was born." See Goodspeed's Translation, The Living Bible, NASB's marginal note, Beck's, Williams, and Moffatt's.



The fact that these translations are by non-Jehovah's Witnesses and most are Trinitarians proves that the NWT rendering was not due to any theological bias. It provides evidence that there are valid translation principles behind this rendering.



You will notice when the Greek construction is correctly rendered there is no indication of an identification of Jesus with Jehovah. Jesus simply said he existed from "before Abraham," referring to his pre-human existence.



Yours,



BAR-ANERGES



EDIT:

The Trinitarian argument linking Jn 8:58 with Ex.3 is based on a falsehood; It is based on the incorrect translation of the Septuagint, not the inspired Hebrew words. Further, the noun identifying God in the Septuagint was "hO ON" not "EGO EIMI/I am" which is a verb. Jesus did not use hO ON, Jesus only used a common verb, not some "name of God."



The noun identifying God in the Septuagint was "hO ON" not "EGO EIMI/I am" which is a verb. Jesus did not use hO ON, which is something even Trinitarian scholars recognize, but as usual they leave their flock in ignorance allowing them to continue relying on such false evidence. So Jesus only used a common verb, not some "name of God." Neither "ego eimi" nor the corresponding Hebrew "ani hu" are ever used as titles for Jehovah in Scripture.



Let me illustrate: If I said "I am Fred" which word identifies me? The noun "Fred" of course. Now if someone else uses the words "I am," does this mean they are identifying themselves as me? Of course not, totally illogical! What Jesus used was simply a very common verb, one that everyone used. For instance at Jn.9:9 the healed man identified himself by saying: "ego eimi". At 1Chron. 21:17 David said (in the LXX) "ego eimi," or "I am." Were they claiming to be God?



Scholar A. B. Davidson said: "The translation ‘I am' is doubly false: the tense is wrong, being present; and the idea is wrong because ‘am' is used in the sense of essential existence. All those interpretations which proceed upon the supposition that the name is a name of God...must be set aside...the nature of the [Hebrew] verb and the tense pre- emptorily forbid them."– The Theology of the Old Testament, in "The International Theological Library", p. 55.
Bolide ⌡shinning bacon of hope...⌠
2010-10-24 15:50:39 UTC
Excellent answer by Bill C: I would not change a thing, and feel he worded it better than I would have.


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