Question:
Where is evidence of LDS in the Bible?
zealot144
2007-10-26 22:49:57 UTC
If Jesus came to America, why is there no mention of it anywhere in the Bible?

In all the hundreds of prophecies relating to the life of Jesus, none mentions a visit to another continent. Why?

Why do so many of the teachings of the LDS directly contradict the scriptures in the Bible?
Fifteen answers:
Feelin Randi?
2007-10-27 00:49:08 UTC
If you are expecting the Bible to specifically say "America" then you are foolish. Amerigo Vespucci, a cartographer for whom the continent was named wasn't even born until 1454 (over a thousand years after the Bible was canonized).



Like ALL prophesy, it is figurative or metaphorical so you have to read between the lines....



*** Anything found between parenthesis are my own words***

*** Anything capitalized (except the word LORD) are my own emphasis***



JESUS HAD OTHER DISCIPLES TO VISIT OUTSIDE OF ISRAEL:



“As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And OTHER SHEEP I have, WHICH ARE NOT OF THIS FOLD (Those of Lehi in Ancient America found in the Book of Mormon): them ALSO I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there SHALL (future tense) BE ONE FOLD (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, after of course these two folds are reconciled into one) and one shepherd.” ~~~ John 10:15-16



WHO WERE THESE OTHER DISCIPLES? Probably the Fruitful nation spoken of in the Patriarchal blessings given by Jacob to his sons. Notice this particular blessing is given to Joseph and his posterity.



“Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; WHOSE BRANCHES RUN OVER THE WALL (A wall is figurative for a large barrier, MUCH LIKE THE HUGE ATLANTIC OCEAN between the old world and the new!?) ~~~ Genesis 49:22





THERE WERE TO BE TWO BOOKS OF SCRIPTURE TO TESTIFY OF THE GOD OF ISRAEL, one of which is to come from the fruitful bow spoken of in Genesis:



"The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, Moreover thou son of man, take thee one stick (a scroll looks like a stick), and WRITE upon it, For Judah (The Bible), and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, FOR JOSEPH (read the passage above), the stick of Ephraim (The Book of Mormon), and for all the house of Israel his companions: And JOIN THEM ONE TO ANOTHER INTO ONE STICK (The collective LDS scriptures with the Book of Mormon & Bible no longer separated); AND THEY SHALL COME ONE IN THINE HAND." ~~~ Ezekiel 37:15-17



WHEN, WHERE, AND BY WHOM ARE THESE TWO “STICKS” TO BE JOINED TOGETHER “ONE IN [OUR] HAND”?:



“Woe to the land shadowing with wings (Take a look at a map and notice that North & South America look like two outstretched wings with the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico being the “head” of the bird), which is beyond the rivers of Ethiopia: That SENDETH AMBASSADORS BY THE SEA (Mormon Missionaries), even in vessels of bulrushes upon the waters, saying Go, ye swift messengers, TO A NATION SCATTERED AND PEELED (The gathering of Israel in a diverse nation [such as the USA]), to a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden down, whose land the rivers have spoiled! All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up AN ENSIGN ON THE MOUNTAINS (Utah & the religious kingdom built there in the mountains by the LDS pioneers); and WHEN HE BLOWETH A TRUMPET (Angel Moroni & the restoration of the Gospel) HEAR YE! ~~~ Isaiah 18:1-3
Ender
2007-10-30 12:00:18 UTC
It's interesting that you say it contradicts the Bible while christians bicker about what the bible means all over the place. It's not as thought the entire non-lds Christian world all agree on ever detail of the Bible and then the Mormons believe something completely differently.



So, to be accurate, the Book of Mormon contradicts YOUR INTERPRETATIONS and YOUR UNDERSTANDINGS of the Bible. Now....you may be right and you may be wrong.



Does the Bible mention that American continents existed? So, because the Bible doesn't mention that the American Continents existed does that mean that they don't in fact exist??? You see my point.



In any case, Christ did say "That other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."



Of course you can claim that he "meant" some other group of people....however, were you there? Can you confidently know exactly what Christ meant with absolute surety? .....didn't think so.



Others have mentioned other scriptures that make similar references. I think the most striking, of course, is that the Native Americans have a legend of a "Descending God" that was white and bearded.



Quetzalcoatl (known by other names as well) was the God known as the "feathered serpent". Feathered because he could "fly". Serpent for the same reasons that Moses used a serpent in the wilderness as a Symbol of Jesus Christ.



Doesn't that sound oddly like the account of Christ coming to the Americas as told in the Book of Mormon???



The bottom line is this. You believe the Bible to be true because you've felt the power of it's spirit and the truthfulness of it's teachings. Perhaps you've prayed to god.



You're a Christian and you believe that God hears the humble and sincere prayers of his children, right??? So take it to him in that spirit. Read it and pray as you read it that you want God to tell you in your heart if it's true or if it is false.



As a Christian, you should embrace such an approach shouldn't you?



God knows if it was written by his prophets or not. God knows if it's his scripture or not. Ask him....he's a better source of truth than Yahoo Answers.
2007-10-27 06:07:19 UTC
Not an LDS, but here's the answer anyway



1) The New Testament (NT) books were written by the apostles, or disciples, living in Western Asia. *If* Jesus visited America after his resurrection, they were not there to see it. They wrote only what they saw and heard - and certainly they did not write all of that (as the gospels themselves attest).



2) I cannot answer this with any authority, but I do seem to recall prophecies about "other nations". Whether they apply to Jesus or not, and whether they apply to America or not, surely is a matter of interpretation - at least in the cases where those prophecies are not explicitly clarified in the NT.



3) The only one I know of is eternal marriage - and even that is not incontrovertible. However, I admit that I am not an LDS, though I have read the entire bible. Which of their beliefs contradict scripture?



Jim, http://www.jimpettis.com/wheel/
hamoh10
2007-10-27 06:11:56 UTC
So! everyone forgets that Christanity was to BEGIN in Jerusalim! then move to the uttermost parts of the earth! So then,,, He would shortcut himself by running ahead of his Apostles. And remember,,, after the 40 days he went up into heaven,, NOT west to "America"...Them guys are like the Musilm,,,, new holy book an' such,,,, I want to see THEM DEBATE,,,REALLY!!! OH YES BOATH WILL "TWIST" SCRIPTURE TO SAY THAT THE PROPHETS WROTE OF THEM TOO
Technoman
2007-10-27 06:08:13 UTC
I am not LDS but belong to the Church of Christ that believes in the Book of Mormon.



In answer to your questions:



Isaiah 29 speaks of a sealed book that comes out of the dust, that will speak as with the voice of the dead, that will be sealed and only the unlearned can read, that will be profitable for instruction and doctrine. The Book of Mormon fulfills all of Isa 29 in that it was buried, the ancient ancestors of the Native Americans wrote their religion on plates of gold for the intent to preach to their descendants (as with a familiar spirit), the unlearned farmboy Joseph Smith was able to read it. A Professor Anthon was shown some of the characters that were copied off the plates and he verified they were a modified Egyptian glpyhs, but he, the learned, was not allowed to read it, and it contains doctrines profitable for instruction.



Jesus also spoke of visiting other sheep not of this fold (the Jews) who will HEAR HIS VOICE. Just about every native American tribe, as well as many Island tribes, have traditions handed down where they were visited by a bearded white God who taught them the gospel of peace and who promised the return. The Aztecs thought Cortez was this bearded white God. Polynesians thought Captain Cook was also this bearded white God who promised to return. Whether you believe in Mormonism or not it is clear that Jesus visited these tribes.



Many LDS teachings not only contradict the Bible but also contradict the Book of Mormon as well. The Book of Mormon bitterly condemns the past practice of polygamy which calls the practice a whoredom and abomination before God, no exceptions, no excuses. The Book of Mormon also never once mentions Celestial Marriage, Baptism for the Dead, the 1st President, 3 Degrees of Glory and many other LDS doctrines. The LDS have basically forsook the Book of Mormon and placed thier trust in the arm of flesh, those whom they consider Latter Day Prophets... and follow HIM rather than Christ as taught by either Bible or Book of Mormon. The LDS have done to the Book of Mormon the same as the Catholics have done to the Bible... they profess it but do not follow it, and their terrible examples cause millions to reject the word of God.



I used to be LDS but left them BECAUSE I believe in the Bible, and Book of Mormon, which teaches the very same Gospel message as the Bible. The Book of Mormon is only clearer than the Bible because it was translated only once, and with divine help.
cadisneygirl
2007-10-27 06:20:29 UTC
Actually Christ said he was going to teach other people.



The Bible is a collection of prophets teaching their individual societies of the gospel. There really is no reason for them to speak of other societies elsewhere.
wqoeirmfd
2007-10-27 06:01:40 UTC
Men created concept of God. So men can modify concept of God according to their needs.
shadowxs25
2007-10-27 05:52:57 UTC
Because 2000 years ago it wasn`t called america.
tabulator32
2007-10-27 05:52:44 UTC
What?!



Jesus was on the Earth 2000 years ago. America didn't come into existence until just over 200 years ago.



Get a timeline!
G3
2007-10-27 05:57:14 UTC
The LDS are mention in Matt 24:11 along with others but not by name



And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceice many.
Doctor
2007-10-29 22:32:18 UTC
We believe that Jesus did refer in an obscure manner to the visit he was going to make to America. In John 10:16 he said, "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."



I agree that we might well be confused as to the meaning of this scripture if we did not have the Book of Mormon to clarify it. Many times in our ignorance we assume the Bible means a particular thing, when in reality it means something else. But we can ask ourselves, why didn't Jesus make it more clear to Bible readers that there were a band of believers in America? Fortunately we have the words of Jesus, spoken in America, to answer your question. (3 Nephi 15:12-24):



"12 Ye are my disciples; and ye are a light unto this people, who are a remnant of the house of Joseph.

13 And behold, this is the land of your inheritance; and the Father hath given it unto you.

14 And not at any time hath the Father given me commandment that I should tell it unto your brethren at Jerusalem.

15 Neither at any time hath the Father given me commandment that I should tell unto them concerning the other tribes of the house of Israel, whom the Father hath led away out of the land.

16 This much did the Father command me, that I should tell unto them:

17 That other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

18 And now, because of stiffneckedness and unbelief they understood not my word; therefore I was commanded to say no more of the Father concerning this thing unto them.

19 But, verily, I say unto you that the Father hath commanded me, and I tell it unto you, that ye were separated from among them because of their iniquity; therefore it is because of their iniquity that they know not of you.

20 And verily, I say unto you again that the other tribes hath the Father separated from them; and it is because of their iniquity that they know not of them.

21 And verily I say unto you, that ye are they of whom I said: Other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

22 And they understood me not, for they supposed it had been the Gentiles; for they understood not that the Gentiles should be converted through their preaching.

23 And they understood me not that I said they shall hear my voice; and they understood me not that the Gentiles should not at any time hear my voice—that I should not manifest myself unto them save it were by the Holy Ghost.

24 But behold, ye have both heard my voice, and seen me; and ye are my sheep, and ye are numbered among those whom the Father hath given me."



So, the short answer is that Jesus didn't tell them plainly about his visit to the people in America because of the stiffneckedness and unbelief of the people in the Bible lands.



The teachings that you believe are in direct contradiction to the Bible are only in direct contradiction to your interpretation of the Bible. As I understand the Bible there is no contradiction. But why should you assume that you have the only true interpretation of the Bible? The Mormons could be right, you know.
2007-10-27 05:57:34 UTC
That and half a dozen more basic beliefs of Mormons that are opposed to Christianity.



They are clearly a cult - misguided altogether.
2007-10-27 05:53:27 UTC
i misread the question... thought you asked where is evidence of LSD in the Bible... My bad.
2007-10-27 05:53:09 UTC
Where is there "evidence" of ANYTHING in the bible?
2007-10-28 17:47:35 UTC
I want to address technoman's comments, I looked up isaiah 29:11-12, it talks abotu a sealed scroll, it says nothing about it being revealed or found or the other things technoman said, it is only mentioned. Theologians think that the other sheep Jesus went to visit were in t he bossom of Abraham, this is were all the people on the earth waited for jesus to die on the cross and after jesus died he went to visit them and see if they wanted salvation.

Whole Chapter) Luke 16:22

And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;



(Whole Chapter) Luke 16:23

And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.



230Previous/Next

Luke 16:24

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Luke 16:23-25 (King James Version)

King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain



23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Luke 16:28-30 (King James Version)

King James Version (KJV)

28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.



) Luke 19:9

And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.



By the way in jude 1:14, jude talks about Enoch prophecying from the book of Enoch, that is not in the bible books and no one is sure if Enoch really wrote the books, its funny that Jude chose to use this book to mention in his letter.



As for th ebook of mormon, it could have come from an old Freemason lengend:

12. As predicted after the flood, a great king, named Solomon, came to power and desired to build a sacred house for the in-dwelling of the divine presence.

13. Solomon and his builders, the Masons, while building and excavating for the temple at Mt. Moriah, discovered the cavern and the sacred treasure.

14. After three attempts to obtain the treasure, they were finally successful. Those Masons were very rejoiceful upon receiving these preserved Mysteries.

15. But. three wicked men intervened and committed a horrible crime. They attempted to force one of the Masons, one of the faithful Masons who had discovered the treasure. Hiram Abif; or Hiram, the widow's son, to reveal the hiding (place) and the contents of the hidden treasure.

16. He would not reveal his knowledge and therefore they killed him.

17. While being slain, Hiram. with uplifted hands, cried out, "Oh Lord, My God, is there no help for the widow's son?" This has since become a general Masonic distress call.

18. Then three loyal Masons, seeking revenge, pursued the three evil ones.

19. One of the three faithful Masons overtook one of the arch-villains. He was asleep with his word, or knife, nearby. 20. The Mason slew the villain with his own knife by cutting off his head.

21. In Masonic ceremonies, the words ``strike off his head" were employed.

22. Also in Masonic ceremonies, in revolutionary France, the re-enacting of the killing of this villain. the tyrant's name was King Philippe le Bel (Philip IV or the Fair who destroyed the Knights Templar. M. B. H.)

23. The loyal Mason was rewarded by King Solomon.

24. The recovered treasures then became part of the temple treasury. It consisted of the brass records, the gold plate, the metal ball, the breast plate and the urim and thummim.

Such is the Masonic legend of the Secret Doctrine, or the sacred treasure in the sacred hill, or the treasure of the widow's son.

The parallels of Joseph Smith and the history of Mormonism are so unmistakable, that to explain them only as coincidence would be ridiculous.

Joseph Smith was named Enoch, even by God. He was 25 when he brought forth his sacred record. His sacred record was buried in the hill by a man who had the initial "M". There were GOLD PLATES containing the mysteries of God. They were also in Egyptian hieroglyphics or some Egyptian form. There were brass plates, which also contained an account of the creation of the world. There was another record which contained an account of the tower of Babel. The cavity in the hill, and the hill and the cavity Joseph both saw in vision, was covered with a stone lid. The other treasures in the stone box were the breastplate, the urim and thummim, as well as the round metal ball which served as a director and was called the Liahona.

Joseph Smith also claimed to be an Israelite, and he too made several fruitless attempts at getting the treasure when he first saw it. Joseph Smith had three witnesses to the Book of Mormon and the record itself bears witness that an arch-villain named Laban, or Laban, was thwarting the availability and accessibility of the sacred records, had his head cut off by his own sword. This prophet also built temples for the in-dwelling of God's spirit. Now these parallels, dramatic as they seem, still do not represent the strangest part of the story. All of these aspects of the legend seem transformed into the history of Joseph Smith, so much so that even it appears to be a kind of symbolic acting out of Masonic lore.

But there is a point in this drama where the action goes beyond metaphor and the symbol merges into a tragic reality. This has to do, of course, with the death of Hiram Abif in the legend and the martyrdom of Joseph Smith, in June Joseph Smith gave himself up to be imprisoned and on June 27, 1844, a mob stormed the little Carthage jail. Hyrum was killed instantly and John Taylor seriously wounded. Joseph Smith, Master Mason and widow's son, went to the window and with upraised hands, commenced giving the Masonic distress call to fraternal Masons who were present in the mob: "Oh, Lord, My God." He was unable to complete his plea and fell out of the window to his death.

How does a Mormon historian interpret Joseph Smith and the Masonic Enoch legend? The parallels demand an answer. Was Joseph Smith the fruition of Enoch's prophecy? Was this an extreme "grabbing on" by the Prophet? Or did mysterious and divine, even magical, forces attach themselves to him? Can anyone deny that Masonic influence on Joseph Smith and the Church, either before or after his personal Masonic membership? The evidence demands comments.

I have attempted to indicate that with regard to Mormonism and Masonry, there remains an abundance of that which is "new under the sun." I do not believe that the Nauvoo story can adequately be told without an inquiry into Masonry.

There are many questions which still demand the answers. I earnestly hope I have raised some questions. Perhaps I have answered a few. But if we, as Mormon historians, respond to these questions and myriads like them relative to Masonry in an ostrich-like fashion, with our heads buried in the traditional sand, then I submit: there never will be "any help for the widow's son."


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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