Question:
Can someone give me a non religious reason to not accept this proof of evolution?
?
2011-11-16 15:25:15 UTC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK3O6KYPmEw

It comes from Ken Miller, a biology professor at Brown University. So please don't give me anything like "it's not peer reviewed". It comes from a biology professor who himself is a Catholic, he just happens to have a brain. Thus knows intelligent design is a fairy tale.
Thirteen answers:
Questioner
2011-11-16 15:45:25 UTC
Ken Miller’s anti-ID claims:

http://www.evolutionnews.org/KenMillerLectureGuide.pdf



And for those who put so much faith in peer-review:

http://www.discovery.org/a/2640
?
2011-11-20 10:04:25 UTC
Ken Miler says that the ID proponents ignored the evidence but this evidence is only for for common ancestry. This is ridicules since many including Behe who was one of the main witness at the trial for ID believe in common ancestry. Whats the point on giving evidence for something your opponent agrees on? Millers argument doesn't tell you anything about the real issue which is intelligent design.



Now there are others which do deal with ID but its too long to deal with everything I am just dealing with that argument he makes that is on this video.
torpex2002
2011-11-16 15:39:43 UTC
Proof is subjective.



What proves something to one person, may not to another, and rarely to all.



We can't even prove to everyone that the earth is spherical. Some folk think it's a nasa driven conspiracy.



You're gonna learn quite rapidly that you can lead an evolution denier to undeniable, demonstrable facts, but you can't make them think about them.



It's ironic really - they think they are defending their religious worldview, when they're actually doing it a great disservice, since people around them are forced to consider, "wow, what OTHER aspects of reality are they willfully ignorant of?" like there being no gods for example...
the re - chosen one
2011-11-16 15:57:49 UTC
Ken Miller told me that under the right conditions a human eye can grow by itself under a rock. With idiots like this teaching science to the minds of our gullible young children I see why we need to teach them Intelligent Design Theory.
Sly Phi AM
2011-11-16 15:33:31 UTC
No



@scooterpoop - I've always loved the irony that creationists such as yourself realize they can't argue against evolution on scientific terms so they attempt to shift the goal posts by claiming that evolution is in fact religious - as if being religious means it lacks integrity. LOL (at you)
ANDRE L
2011-11-16 15:28:23 UTC
There isn't one. And, evolution deniers have NO peer reviewed science on their side at all.



For the reasons that follow, we conclude that the religious nature of ID [intelligent design] would be readily apparent to an objective observer, adult or child. (page 24)



A significant aspect of the IDM [intelligent design movement] is that despite Defendants' protestations to the contrary, it describes ID as a religious argument. In that vein, the writings of leading ID proponents reveal that the designer postulated by their argument is the God of Christianity. (page 26)



The evidence at trial demonstrates that ID is nothing less than the progeny of creationism. (page 31)



The overwhelming evidence at trial established that ID is a religious view, a mere re-labeling of creationism, and not a scientific theory. (page 43)



Throughout the trial and in various submissions to the Court, Defendants vigorously argue that the reading of the statement is not ‘teaching’ ID but instead is merely ‘making students aware of it.’ In fact, one consistency among the Dover School Board members' testimony, which was marked by selective memories and outright lies under oath, as will be discussed in more detail below, is that they did not think they needed to be knowledgeable about ID because it was not being taught to the students. We disagree. .... an educator reading the disclaimer is engaged in teaching, even if it is colossally bad teaching. .... Defendants’ argument is a red herring because the Establishment Clause forbids not just 'teaching' religion, but any governmental action that endorses or has the primary purpose or effect of advancing religion. (footnote 7 on page 46)



After a searching review of the record and applicable caselaw, we find that while ID arguments may be true, a proposition on which the Court takes no position, ID is not science. We find that ID fails on three different levels, any one of which is sufficient to preclude a determination that ID is science. They are: (1) ID violates the centuries-old ground rules of science by invoking and permitting supernatural causation; (2) the argument of irreducible complexity, central to ID, employs the same flawed and illogical contrived dualism that doomed creation science in the 1980s; and (3) ID's negative attacks on evolution have been refuted by the scientific community. …It is additionally important to note that ID has failed to gain acceptance in the scientific community, it has not generated peer-reviewed publications, nor has it been the subject of testing and research. Expert testimony reveals that since the scientific revolution of the 16th and 17th centuries, science has been limited to the search for natural causes to explain natural phenomena. (page 64)



[T]he one textbook [Pandas] to which the Dover ID Policy directs students contains outdated concepts and flawed science, as recognized by even the defense experts in this case. (pages 86–87)



ID's backers have sought to avoid the scientific scrutiny which we have now determined that it cannot withstand by advocating that the controversy, but not ID itself, should be taught in science class. This tactic is at best disingenuous, and at worst a canard. The goal of the IDM is not to encourage critical thought, but to foment a revolution which would supplant evolutionary theory with ID. (page 89)



Accordingly, we find that the secular purposes claimed by the Board amount to a pretext for the Board's real purpose, which was to promote religion in the public school classroom, in violation of the Establishment Clause. (page 132)



Judge Jones III, Republican, appointed by George W Bush.
BigAl
2011-11-16 15:37:55 UTC
The man presents some very powerful EVIDENCE. You should accept it until contrary EVIDENCE turns up - perhaps never because creationists don't even understand what evidence is.

But it is evidence not proof. In science there are very few proofs.
2011-11-16 15:31:54 UTC
Oh, Scooterpoop. You are always on top of these questions. >.>
Steve P
2011-11-16 15:29:45 UTC
I don't know of any reason to accept anything as proof of evolution.



Steve
2011-11-16 15:27:00 UTC
If he has a brain, then why would fundies ever listen to him?



PS - see above...
Renone Montanez
2011-11-16 15:35:29 UTC
Amazing man. He is awesome!
?
2011-11-16 15:28:17 UTC
i believe in science :) I also know what I know who created science and that would be our creator Jesus Christ. Please explain to me the start of science? everything just big banged into existence? not buying that. that's so dumb.
2011-11-16 15:26:48 UTC
All of my reasons for rejecting evolution are non-religious.



How are you doing with that peer reviewed material I asked you for? Until you present it, none of us have a non-religious reason to accept evolution, and we are forced to accept it only on religious grounds.


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
Loading...