is it true seventh adventist church,mormons,jehovah witnesses and messianic christians aren't really christian?

?

2011-10-09 20:39:02 UTC

Because evangelical christians and protestants are hypocritical in their beliefs. Who the hell has the right to claim the authority of Christ? If we go back through history, the Catholics are the only ones! Oh well, the more christians bicker amongst themselves, the more they prove to me that "christianity" as a whole has failed and is a joke fairytale.

James M

2011-10-10 18:00:04 UTC

There are so many good points made here.

First some definitions:

1) Blasphemy - irreverence toward holy personages, religious artifacts, customs, and beliefs.

But towards who is a person irreverent towards? There are religious people from many denominations. Which ones should you be reverent to? Which ones should you not be reverent to? This is difficult and is confusing because it is difficult.

Answer: be reverent to God first. Then you will know which holy people you will be reverent to. Be reverent to only those people who are truly reverent to God.

2) Heresy - having a different opinion.

But having a different opinion from who? The "church" says that anyone who doesn't agree with her is heretical. Hence Seventh Days Adventist, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Messianics are heretical (from the Catholic church's perspective). But is this correct?

Answer: God has an opinion. Heresy is any who don't agree with God. So how can we know God's opinion? He told us on Mt. Sinai and Moses wrote everything down. It's that simple.

Who are Christians? They are ones who truly follow Jesus. They do no blasphemy by being irreverent to God's word. They have the opinion of God.

?

2011-10-09 20:51:42 UTC

No, that's not true. There are quite a few Seventh Day Adventists who are true believers. It's a fact that God never changed the Sabbath from its original day to Sunday. Take a look in your own Bible and see if He's got even one Word in there saying that. It was so important to HIm, Old Testament, that it's all over the place. If God, the Father had wanted it changed, He'd have at least mentioned it in the New.

Mormons are not (as a group) Christians because they have a different Jesus, a Jesus who is not the literal Word of God, only begotten Son of God. The same is true of Jehovah's Witnesses. And the Jehovah's Witnesses are worshipping a God whose original sacred Name is Jehovah. The God of Moses, Issac and God and Father of Jesus the (real) Christ did not originally have a Greek (Jehovah) name. It began with a Y as until about 500 years ago, there was no such sound in the Hebrew language as a J.

Messianic Christians (are actually called Messianic Jews or Messianic Gentiles or just plain Messianics) come in so many flavors you can't lump them all into any group but Messianics.

I will tell you one thing though regarding Messianic Jews. Most (real) Messianic Jews, that is Jews who have accepted Jesus as Messiah (Christ) are more "Christian" than any Christian you may ever come across. Jesus never repented of having been born a Jew. All the apostles were Jews. His mother was Jew. And there are promises God gave to Jews that anyone who curses a son of Abraham will be cursed. Be aware. Good question.

Knowledge + Application = Wisdom

2011-10-11 09:39:46 UTC

For starters I can speak about Jehovah'sWitness for that is what I am. The rest... you'll have to ask them.

Out beliefs:

The trinity:

What is the origin of the Trinity doctrine?

The New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”—(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.

(Email me for more on the subject)

"they preach different things from the Bible"

Not JW. ALL our beliefs come straight from the Bible. Not one is made up, not one is not backed by the scriptures. That is a fact. Ask me about any particular one and I will give you the scriptural basis for it. What other religion will make a statement such as that? None other...

"are based of what their leaders write or some of their leaders were or are prophets"

Nope, ot JW. Our beliefs are based directly on the Bible and we follow what it says. True we have some who take the lead among us, elders and so forth and we do follow their unified lead (I say unified lead for when one of them acts contrary to the scriptures, all members in the congregation are to not follow or obey them). Why would we follow their lead, because someone has to do it and more importantly, because their lead is based on the same scriptures we know and use. So to us, if the council/instruction is Bible based, it's Jehovah God who gives it and we need to obey him. The ones taking the lead will never ask us to do anything that goes against the scriptures, and if they do (they would not but just to make the point) we are free to not do what they say. That too is a fact.

Now in regards to "evangelical or protestants deny them as christians"... What is a Christian by definition?

The Latinized Greek term Khri‧sti‧a‧nos′, found only three times in the Christian Greek Scriptures, designates followers of Christ Jesus, the exponents of Christianity.—Ac 11:26; 26:28; 1Pe 4:16.

“It was first in Antioch [Syria] that the disciples were by divine providence called Christians.” (Ac 11:26)

So by that definition, JW are very much Christians for we follow in his steps closer than any other religious group. That too is a fact. You only need to know what true religion promotes (according to any Bible) to know that no other religious group is better in tune to the teachings of Jesus and follow in his steps.

For example. I will give you one scripture that will help you filter out most religions because they are not following in Jesus' steps, not following his commands to:

(Matthew 28:19-20) Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

You could probably count with just a few fingers on your right hand how many religions expect their members to go out and preach to others about Jehovah God and Jesus Christ... I only know of 2 that actualy have this as a requirement. And one of them, the Mormons, only have a select few go out and do this, that is not what Jesus asked his followers to do, he meant all his followers had to do this. The otehr religion, JW, and all their members are to follow in Jesus' footsteps and preach, and yes that even includes the ones taking the lead...

===========================

If you would like to know more about this and other themes, next time Jehovah's Witness come to your door, ask them for a free Bible study at your convenience. You will never regret all the knowledge you will acquire and remember that what you do with that knowledge is your choice.

Knowledge + Application = Wisdom

2011-10-10 23:07:02 UTC

The Bible's Viewpoint.

What Does It Mean To Be A Christian?

http://www.watchtower.org/e/200704b/article_01.htm

Being a Christian is a ""way of life.""

Not, simply and just, what one ""says,"" he or she believes.

That is just like a man, that looks at himself in the mirror,

then when he turns away from the mirror, denies his own self.

I studied the Bible on my own, at first.

Not knowing even that I should be asking God to grant me

understanding, the knowledge of His word.

I just wanted the Truth...whatever that may be...

Let It Be True.

I was becoming a Christian, as I learned, day by day.

I had no preconceived concept of this trinity teaching.

And, it never entered my logical reasoning that the Son of God 'is' God. Nope.

That God Almighty is His own Son. Again, no.

Or that God's will, His active force; is Him and His Son, Jesus....

again, No. (((head))) shakes.

Now, years later, I see that "trinitarians" that like to be called Christians,

are of the meanest and down right ugliest sort of persons; I've ever heard from.

Their words are full of hypocrisy and hate.

They basically, just "spit venom" at those whom do not believe in this non-Biblical teaching.

It is, of the worst sort of blasphemy I could ever imagine.

It denies the Christ.

Denies his "willing" sacrifice of his perfect life, on our behalf.

Denies that God """SENT""" His only-begotten Son to die,

to give us all (mankind) a chance at reconciliation towards Jehovah God.

When Jesus willingly came to earth he was accused of preaching a different gospel.

It was Not.

He came to fulfill the Law.

The Jewish leaders had the prophecies concerning him.

They knew, that, "The God," would be sending His Anointed One,

The Messiah...it was written in the Torah and Psalms.

These ppl today, that you ask about.

As you but it, "deny them (others) as Christians,"

simply put, in the easiest terms:

Because they {trintarians} deny

The Sovereign Lord of the universe, Jehovah. And His Son, the Christ.

They are from their father the devil.

They do Not standfast in the truth.

You are invited, to check out everything I just said, for yourself.

See, if my words ring true!!

Have a free home Bible study.

Find out What the Bible Really Teaches:

http://watchtower.org/

?

2011-10-09 20:45:52 UTC

The history of the trinity shows that it is something proposed. Not something that was handed down by God. I can more readily show God's approval of the Pre tribulation Rapture than the trinity. This doesn't make the trinity a falsehood, but it does make it questionable, as using words like "omnipresent" and "omnipotent" are also though out, rationalizations of the nature of God.

So I studied Oneness, and found they had some good points, and some rather ridiculous things they held on to, as does the trinity concept. And I decided that God's nature was something we ought not to argue about. We end up with One God either way, and I think that is the important part.

As for Jehovah's Witnesses (possibly), Seventh Day Adventism, and Mormon theologies, I try not to adopt anything coming out of the "Burned over District".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burned_Over_District

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QE7vw1cDwMI

Hogie

2011-10-10 08:41:54 UTC

There is a distinction to be made here. The churches themselves can be unChristian, but this does not mean that there can be no members who are Christian, who actually believe the true gospel, despite what their churches teach.

.

DS M

2011-10-10 07:10:07 UTC

What makes a Christian a Christian? Without this understanding, every answer is correct because everyone's opinion becomes the truth rather than the truth being the truth.

On the day of Pentecost, 120 Jews in Jerusalem were filled with the spirit of God like all the prophets in fulfillment of Joel 2 as described in Acts 2.

The term "Messianic Christians" is an incorrect term as real Jews believe in a God that speaks and acts like all Jewish scriptures teach.

If you can find the scriptures that describe a real prophet of the God of Israel overturns the needs for sacrifices described in the Torah, then you might have a leg to stand on. But you can't so the need for sacrifice still exist according to the Torah.

To suggest that it is possible for an unnamed prophet was able to substitute prayer for sacrifices is inconceivable. After all, the very event of changing the Torah and the law of Moses would be an event which would have made the prophet's name a household word among real Jews. The idea that real Jews could care so little about the Torah being changed that they couldn't even remember the prophet's name and record this major change with the rest of scripture is offensive and an attack on Judaism.

To suggest that the God of Israel would stop being a Father/Shepherd/King to His people without a prophet stating this fact is another one of those inconceivable ideas made by those who left Judaism and started their own path. The Creator of the Universe must be able to lead His people by communicating with them during their lifetime as all scriptures describe. The idea that real Jews could care so little about this concept of God being changed that all Jewish scriptures teach is outrageous. To suggest real Jews couldn't even remember the prophet's name and record it this major change in Jewish understanding with the rest of scripture is offensive and an attack on Judaism.

The scriptures describe Messianic Judaism as being Jewish since being Jewish and being filled with the spirit of God on the day of Pentecost in fulfillment of Jewish scriptures would indicate. There is no way to call this a Christian event as the word "Christian" hadn't been invented yet. And you would have to prove that the Pentecost event was not Jewish as I proved

1. the change to prayer from sacrifices

2. the change that the King of kings was not allowed to speak or act

were not valid Jewish events.

Or at least produce the standard that all real Jews meet but Messianic Jews do not which will never occur as long as you consider Orthodox and Reform real Jews.

Jehovah Witnesses have to come up with the names of the translators of their Bible and allow the translation be debatable. They simply can't justify their changes to the scriptures.

Mormons have no historical proof supporting their claims. They have spent billions attempting to validate what Smith wrote but have nothing to prove the crossing into South America. So on the one hand, they want to say that the physical evidence of the NT has been tampered with and on the other hand fail to have any physical evidence that would support their historical roots or actually imply the NT was corrupted.

Seventh Day Adventist's were Baptist wanting to go back to their roots. I would encourage them to continue to do this while looking for the God of Israel to speak and acts as all real scriptures teach.

Hope this helps

Edit

BAR- ANERGES has a wonderful strawman argument. ***The term "Jehovah's Witness" is a Scriptural description for True Christians (Isa.43:10-12).***

However, he totally and completely misses the point that the NT scriptures he quotes were written by people who identified themselves as Messianic Jews...not Jehovah Witnesses. In fact, Is 43: 10 -12 is a reference to Jews....because Jehovah's witness was not the term used to describe believes after Isaiah wrote this passage. Instead, these words continued to describe those who witness that HaShem is God...Jews. So in all accounts, Bar-Anerges misses what is said if the verses where taken in context or historical context. Sad

Knowledge + Application = Wisdom

NIV *** 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.***

NKJ ***1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God.***

NAS ***1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.***

You Bible doesn't have this. Why not? Where the scriptures don't match JW theology, the JWBible must conform instead of JW theology.

2011-10-10 11:40:29 UTC

Greetings,

The term "Jehovah's Witness" is a Scriptural description for True Christians (Isa.43:10-12).

When you compare two religions who both claim to be Christian you must use Scriptural evidence to identify the true Christians? These evidences are not complicated.

Scriptures say true worshipers could be identified in at least three main ways: Love, Truth (Jn.4:23; 17:17), and Fruitage (Mt.7:16ff). Conversely, by these we can also identify the false.

The True religion would be primarily known for it's love toward all (Jn.13:34,35; 1Jn.3:10-12; 4:7, 8). This would include their enemies (Mat.5:44-48; Rom.12:17-20; 1Pet.2:21-23; 3:8- 9). It would not participate in or condone carnal war (2Cor.10:3,4; Isa.2:4).

Apply this basic evidence to what happened in both world wars and current conflicts. People of the same religions met on battlefields and slaughtered one another because of nationalistic differences. Each side claimed to be Christian, and each side was supported by its clergy, who claimed that God was on their side. The definition of a "Christian" is "one who does what Christ would do": WWJD (1 Pet.2:21). That slaughter of "Christian" by "Christian" is rotten fruitage. It is a denial of any claim to being the true Church (cf. Mat.26:52). No Christian would continue to associate with these religions (Rev.18:4). What is the historical record of Catholics and Protestants regarding warfare? Jehovah's Witnesses have never participated in warfare.

Another evidence is that the true religion would be made up of people who would all be in agreement on doctrine. It would not have members who believe differently on abortion, war, homosexuality or morals. Its members would not "agree to disagree" (1Cor.1:10; 2Cor.13:11; Phil.1:27). True Christians would be separated from the world by "truth" from God's Word the Bible (Jn.17:17; 4:23). All its teachings would be based on the Bible (2 Tim. 3:14-16; Gal. 1:8, 9).

The true religion would have a reputation for promoting exceptional morality in its members (1Cor.6:9,10; Eph.5:3-5; 2 Pet.3:14; 2Cor.7:1; 2Tim.3:5). Does a religion *require* their congregation members to live moral lives, not allowing practicers of homosexuality, fornication, or adultery to be accepted members of their congregation? Or do they turn a blind eye? If so, their "fruitage" would show they are not true Christians.

True Christians would be associated with God's name: (Jn.17:3,6,26; Acts 15:14/Isa.55:5; 1 Peter 2:9/Ex.19:4- 5; Ps.83:18). They would not use Bibles which have removed the Most Holy Divine Name of God. Replacing the Divine Name with the common noun "Lord" cannot be justified by any translational principles so it is a blatant "subtraction" from God's word which brings a curse on anyone who approves it (Rev.22:18).

The true Church would be engaged in an unprecedented teaching activity (Matthew 24:14, 28:19, 20). Witnesses right now are performing the greatest Bible education work ever done in all human history!

There are more scripture evidences, however these are plenty to show which religion meets the requirements of being the True religion.

Apostate Christianity has neither the spiritual strength nor the support of God's holy spirit to motivate people to follow the truthful teachings of Jesus Christ. For this reason, the result in Christendom is not true Christianity but counterfeit believers, "weeds" unfit for the Kingdom.-Mat13:24ff.

When you examine most religions you find that they cannot meet any of the other requirements of true Christianity. Their historical record is of bloodthirsty wars, immorality, sectarian violence and factional splits (Mat.7:21- 23; 2Tim3:5; Gal.5:19-23). Today Catholics continue to kill Catholics and Protestants kill Protestants, something true Christians would not do (1Jn.3:10,15; 4:8). Our hearts tell us that any religion who is willing to shoot their own members in warfare cannot possibly be trusted to teach Biblical truth.

I have found only one group which has presented absolute evidence of truly being Christian: Jehovah's Witnesses. This is the testimony of the Holy Spirit (1Cor. 6:9-11; Gal.5:19-22).

Yours,

BAR-ANERGES

2011-10-09 21:18:33 UTC

Well as a witness I can tell you we are Christan's. We believe what is "in" the bible and the reason we go door to door is because Jesus gave commission to us in Matthew 28:19&20. "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the son, and the holy spirit. teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you." We do not believe the trinity because it is not bible based. It is a doctrine written my imperfect man and taught as truth. We have/study the same Bibles. The difference is our Bibles have Gods name (Jehovah) through out. The older king james "Version" had Gods name in it. If you look at different ones through out the years you'll see how the "christains" in charge has taken his name out of the Bible. One scripture you can look up is Palm's 83:18, also just look up Jehovah's name in the index and find the scriptures. I use to be a southern baptist and once I found out all the lies I was taught as Bible truth I wanted to study and learn these truths myself. I can't and just do not trust the churches or their leaders to speak the truth, I mean they have taken something as important as Gods name outta the Bible. How can you trust anything that comes from them when they basically have kept you from knowing your God on a personal basis.

.

Esther

2011-10-09 20:40:21 UTC

Those who follow the bible are Christians. Those who do not are not Christian. Simple answer.

2011-10-09 20:40:07 UTC

They think they are not christians because the catholic church orders them to think that way. Most protestants deny it but they think whatever they are told to think by the catholics.

2011-10-09 20:39:55 UTC

well christens are all who believe in Christ.

so yes they are