Do Mormons really believe that the Book of Mormon was translated out of a hat?

Question

Also, did the wife of Smith's publisher really tell the publisher to say he lost the documents? And Did Smith really say God was angry at him and that he could no longer translate it?

Just watched the Southpark episode.

It can't really be that stupid. There are 13 MILLION people who believe this worldwide.

Answer 1

Yes. Finally after 200 years, the LDS church publicly admits that Smith used his old seer stone, which he put in a hat and put his face in it. When I was growing up they told us he used the Urim and Thumim, much more romantic. Wrong.



It was Martin Harris's wife who hid the 116 pages. Smith couldn't go forward without them. It took him maybe a year to figure out he'd have to come up with a summary instead and then claim God took the plates back so he couldn't re-translate. He knew if he did rewrite it, it wouldn't match and people would see it wasn't coming from God.



There is nothing inaccurate in that episode, and nothing inaccurate in Stone and Parker's Book of Mormon Musical either.



There aren't as many millions who believe it as they claim. As with the seer stone and hat, the LDS church likes to play fast and loose with truth.



Mormons will say it is all presented to make them ridiculous. Fact is, that is simply what their views look like in the cold light of day to outsiders.



I'm an ex Mormon and lived with this stuff for decades.

Answer 2

He didn't need a hat - he just preferred it to block the sunlight. I am amazed that so many people are shocked by the idea of seer stones. What do they think the Urim and Thumim is? I don't know how a stone can act like a television, showing the past, present and future, but there is ample evidence that it can, and there is ample evidence that this belief is biblical. Not a single other church, outside of few Mormon break-offs, has any clue what a Urim and Thumim is, or what it was used for, despite references in the Bible. Did Joseph Smith get it right? Was the Urim and Thumim a set of divining stones? We have the benefit of the Nag Hammadi and the Dead Sea Scrolls - was he right or not? If he was right, then that should be the end of the discussion.

Answer 3

The Mormons that know Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon out of a hat usually believe it.



Yes, the story is true. It's well documented in Mormon history. That South Park episode is very accurate, just ask any Mormon to prove it false. They can't.



When you think about it, pretty much every religion believes in wild things if you look at it from the outside.

Answer 4

Joseph Smith was trying to translate a language that He did not know. This was the language that the Nephites used to communicate one with another in Ancient Meso-America, long ago, and far away from where Joseph Smith lived.



Guatemala and Southern Mexico is obviously a long way from Upstate New York.



So how was Joseph Smith able to translate the Golden Plates???



Wouldn't it have been great if Joseph Smith had a dictionary so that he could translate the Golden Plates and so that everyone in the World could have available to them THE Book Of Mormon Another Testament Of Jesus Christ???



It turns out that God did provide a dictionary for Joseph Smith to look up words in Ancient Nephite, and then know what the word meant in English.



If you have a portable computer, or a kindle device, or a Black Berry, then you might do what Joseph Smith did. Use it to translate a language that you do not know.



A television or a computer screen shines light from the inside. So to see it easier dimming the lights is advisable. Joseph Smith did much of his translating work in the day time. So to look up a word he used something similar to what the ancient Israelites called a Urim and Thumim which is a miraculous device based on God's technology that is much more advanced then human technology will ever be.



Initially Joseph Smith had to look up the definitions of words, this was however a cumbersome process. Therefor Joseph Smith memorized as much of the language of the Nephites as he could, as he went through the translation process.



More and more as he translated, he did not need to look up definitions of words, a very time consuming process. During the translation of the first one hundred and sixteen pages that were stolen by Martin Harris's wife and her co-conspirators, Joseph Smith out of necessity had to use the translating device provided by God frequently.



Then for a few pages Emma Smith (Joseph's wife) helped out, and was the scribe to Joseph Smith. For whatever reason this was taking too much time. It was then that Oliver Cowdry volunteered to help Joseph Smith, by being the scribe.



After this happened, in two short but very busy months, The Book Of Mormon Another Testament Of Jesus Christ that is now published around the World in numerous languages, was completely translated into English.



There is nothing significant about the hat, except that it might have given some shade, or prevented someone from seeing the translating device that either was a Urim and Thummim or was something similar to a Urim and Thumim (sometimes refereed to as a philosophers stone by the ancients).



God has much better technology than humans did back then or do now, and God is a lot smarter than humans, in fact God is infinitely smart.



So there is no reason that God would not have provided some heavenly technology that is very common in Heaven, because Heaven is more certainly the ultimate information society that there is, as other revelations from God received by Joseph Smith in the Doctrine And Covenants makes clear.



You can believe the Earth is flat, and that Heaven is flat, and that Hell is flat, and that God is someone who only has primitive Dark Ages technology available to Him, but such a belief is highly superstitious, and denies the majesty and power of almighty God, who has more power than any mortal can ever imagine, and is much smarter than any mortal human can readily comprehend.



Moses parted the Red Sea, using the power of God. Don't get hung up on Moses's walking stick, and don't get hung up on Ancient Prophet's when they use a Urim and Thumim, as recorded in the Bible, and don't get hung up on the fact that maybe Joseph Smith a modern Prophet did some of the same things, that is recorded in the Bible that the Ancient Prophets also did.



Focus instead on the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. And focus on the words in The Book Of Mormon Another Testament Of Jesus Christ.



Because the words of The Book Of Mormon Another Testament Of Jesus Christ if you allow them, will persuade you that Jesus Christ is real, and that Jesus Christ gave commandments, and if you repent and turn your heart to Jesus Christ, evidenced by you keeping the commandments of Jesus Christ, then you will gain eternal life in the same glorious Kingdom that Jesus Christ lives in, and that for all eternal time.





God bless.

Answer 5

Out of a hat using a seer stone.





His wife hid the first translation, after all, if Mr Smith had really read the plates he could do it again and come up with the same (within poetic license) words.



Mr Smith then "translated" the plates again. The two scripts were different (quelle suprise!) But Mr. Smith had an answer! The original translations were the same, he claimed, but his wife's suspicion and doubt had let the devil in, who had then altered the first text so that it was now different.







I really, really do not understand how anyone can seriously follow this bat-siht crazy religion.



But then almost all religions have ridiculous aspects to them that rational people do a double take on and say "You believe what?" It is just that Mormonism is up there amongst the most ridiculous.

Answer 6

phrog's given a good answer.



JS asked God about MH taking some pages as MH had requested....he was told no. He asked again and was told no. Finally God just said 'oh go ahead Joseph' and JS let MH take 116 pages home. MH lost them. JS did NOT try to re-translate them because 'his opponents would attempt to see if he could "bring forth the same words again"' - It was like tempting God....mocking and testing Him....JS wouldn't do it. the pages were never recovered. and after that God took away the translators that had come with the plates.....the story of Lucy Harris burning the pages came from Pomeroy Tucker - he was the publisher of the first BoM....and had a great animosity toward mormons. He was known to "prevaricate" when it came to mormons and JS...in his later years admitting that the "stories" only qualified as "rumor" (Wayne Democratic Press, 26 May 1858)

Answer 7

There were many witnesses. Joseph Smith was a seer, and demonstrated his gift many times.



South park makes fun of the Mormons, so don't take it too literally. Martin Harris did eventually get to see the Book of Mormon, and hold it. He was one of the three witnesses chosen to see it and testify to the world of its truthfulness. He also met the angel Moroni and heard the voice of God declare the translation to be correct. After that experience, he mortgaged his farm to pay for the first printing. His wife left him.

Answer 8

yup...just like most christians believe Moses really talked to a burning bush, and Jonah really traveled to Ninevah in the belly of a fish...or that some evolutionists believe that we descended from apes or all came from primordial goo.....



I am constantly surprised that one belief is ok but the other is not.

Answer 9

Don't get info from Southpark! Are you serious? That episode keeps being brought up here and it's disguising and bashes the LDS church!

Answer 10

JS, when translating the BoM, did use a hat to block the light - yes.

I believe you are thinking of the lost 116 pages, or "book of lehi." the portion of mormon's abridgement which was lost by martin harris after the manuscript was loaned to him by JS (D&C 3, D&C 10).....and no there is no evidence aside from the missing pages that his wife said to lie about that....JS did NOT retranslate that portion.



southpark is satire comedy....it takes things and twists them to their most outlandish possible form. their treatment of the LDS is exactly that - so while it does follow a semblance of the truth it certainly does not portray it accurately.

Answer 11

Yes, it's all pretty much correct.



But no, it's not really all that stupid. Like a lot of things, it's not hard to gather up a lot of the questionable stuff together and make it all look bizarre. We could do the same thing with just about anything if we liked... and someone somewhere probably already has.



I don't think South Park even mentioned Smith's previous experience as a dowser, a mason, or his trouble with the law. Did they mention the specific planet that Heaven is supposed to be located on? So, you know, there's more if that kind of stuff rings your bell.

Answer 12

Some do. Some don't. It's officially documented in their own church history records. They accept some of them, but some they refuse, because if they did it would be all over for their religion. It's a pick and choose religion.

Answer 13

It is so sad that JS could not speak directly to God, since they claim their other scriptures come from God, this is not true, they came from an angel.

Answer 14

Actually the South Park episode is pretty much spot on, as was the scientology episode.

Answer 15

no it really IS that stupid,,, not like Christianity!