Question:
Why is there separation of church and state if the laws and constitution are based from the bible?
Grumpy Ole Hacker
2009-10-12 17:37:37 UTC
Why is there separation of church and state if the laws and constitution are based from the bible?
21 answers:
El Guapo
2009-10-12 19:12:16 UTC
Good question, but if you think about it, most of our laws have nothing to do with the Christian Bible. Those that do (for example, laws against stealing and harming other people) are common to ALL religions, not just Christianity.



It is important to remember that religion and morality are NOT the same thing. In fact, historically they have often been at odds with one another. The Crusades, the Inquisition, the Holocaust, terrorism in Northern Ireland, and 9/11 are just a few of the atrocities that have been committed in the name of religion. You don't have to be a religious - or even spiritual - person to behave morally.



Separation of Church and State was established in the U.S. to prohibit ANY religion from dominating governance over any other (and over non-believers). John Adams wrote in the Treaty of Tripoli (1796), "The government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."



Contrary to popular belief, not all of the founding fathers were religious people. Thomas Paine, Ben Franklin, George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson were deists - they believed in God, but saw many flaws with organized religion. Paine once wrote, "of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is none more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory in itself, than this thing called Christianity."



As Thomas Jefferson put it, “I am for freedom of religion, & against all maneuvres to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.” That is why Christian-themed icons & groups need to stay out of government institutions – because their inclusion marginalizes the non-Christian citizens of a country in which “all men are created equal.” The freedom to worship (or not) as we choose is one of the things that makes the U.S. a great place to live.
Daniel
2009-10-13 00:44:06 UTC
Having laws based on Godly wisdom shows a connection between Christianity and the state. But there can also be separation.



The church in itself can be seen as an institution, as with the state.



Separation means that a person from the state cannot 'control' the church. It also means that a representative from the church cannot 'control' the state. I have the ' ' with 'control', because America is a republic, making it much harder in its nature for someone to grab control.



For example, Sec of Defense Robert Gates is not an authority in the church. There are no sketch legal ties. Billy Graham can be president, but cannot randomly make laws based solely on the Church's will.
RKBentley
2009-10-13 01:15:28 UTC
In May, 2007, I was fortunate enough to visit Answers in Genesis’s new Creation Museum the week that it opened. For those who might not be familiar with it, AIG has built a new museum that presents the Biblical history of the world rather than the evolutionary theory. It’s a great museum that rivals any secular museum I’ve been in. It was built entirely with private donations and is overtly religious in nature.



Anyway, about the time the museum opened, there was this tiny, wanna-be-grass-roots group called DefCon who was circulating a petition protesting the museum. DefCon is an abbreviation for “Defense of the Constitution” - you’ll see in a moment how ironic that is. Now, DefCon has the right to protest anything they want. They can picket, circulate petitions, tell lies (actually they shouldn’t tell lies but they still do), and try to discourage support for the museum in any way they see fit. However, everything was not as it seemed.



There were actually 2 petitions being circulated - one for educators to sign and the other for everyone else. The wording in each was nearly identical except the first began, “As educators..."; So, the people who signed this petition were specifically evoking their positions as educators when they signed it.



I first became alarmed when I read a little blurb about a DefCon board member, Sam Schloemer, who happens to be an elected school board official. The article referred to him by his elected title of Representative. In his quotes, he openly condemned the museum and encouraged teachers to do the same. Of course, many of these teachers who signed the petition were PUBLIC school teachers - i.e. representatives of the state.



So let’s see here, we have an elected official encouraging other public officials to condemn a private, religious organization. Then we have public employees, acting within their capacity “as educators” actually doing it. Doesn’t anyone see a problem with this? It would be akin to a group of history teacher banding together and signing a petition saying, “As educators, we condemn the outrageous belief that Jesus was an historical person.”



Now, being the concerned, Christian voter that I am, and (at that time) a resident of OH where Rep. Schloemer serves, I wrote letters to the Governor, Rep. Schloemer, the state’s Secretary of Education. I also engaged in much online debate about the blatant infringement on the First Amendment that was occurring. The silence from the elected officials was deafening. In all fairness, the Governor’s office replied with a non-committing response but he mistakenly seemed to think the museum was in OH. The Secretary of Education said that there is no official position of the DOE but did not comment on the teachers’ actions. I never heard back from Rep. Schloemer.



The response from cyberspace was confusing. I was constantly told, over and over, that these educators had the right to sign the petition because, even though they were teachers and elected officials, they were also private citizens and had their First Amendment right free speech. They also said that AIG is trying to effect public school curriculum by telling kids God created us so it was AIG who was violating the first amendment. If these people had their way, there would be a padlock on the museum right now.



OK, let’s get this straight: A private, religious organization exercising its belief is violating the first amendment. And ELECTED officials and PUBLIC employees openly condemning a religious institution and petitioning against it is free speech? It’s Bizzaro world.



There are a few people out there who believe the first amendment says something like, “there will be a separation of church and state.” Well, the amendment does not use the word “separation” or “church” or “state” so it’s about a bad a summary as one could make. For those who are confused, let me point out what the first amendment actually says:



"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. "



Here’s a little reading exercise. In the above quote, who is being bound or restricted by this amendment? Is it the religious person? No!! It’s CONGRESS (i.e. the state)! Religious people have the right to say, do, or believe anything they want. They can speak out and proselytize to their hearts content. They can publish newsletters and blog about how bad they think the government is. They can even build a museum and peacefully assemble there. They can do all these things and the STATE can do nothing about it. The state should do NOTHING to infringe upon the rights of Christians to exercise their faith, which includes signing a petition against them.
jeffrcal
2009-10-13 00:57:15 UTC
The first amendment to the constitution says in part: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...". That is why we have a separation of church and state.



What gave you the idea that the "laws and constitution are based from [sic] the bible"? Have you read either of them? For example, how many of the "Ten Commandments" are actual laws? I count only three.
Brother Jonathan
2009-10-13 01:11:15 UTC
Separation of church and state isn't in the Constitution. That phrase was lifted from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists. At least one party was afraid there was going to be a "state church" such as what is in effect in many parts of Europe. The early Americans wanted nothing to do with this. Besides, you will see that Jefferson didn't sign the Constitution at all.



Now, why do so many people repeat that nonsense about "separation of church and state" as if it was true?
The Doctor
2009-10-13 00:42:07 UTC
The laws and the Constitution aren't based on the Bible.
I would not like you IRL
2009-10-13 00:43:47 UTC
The laws and constitution are not based on the bible. Most of the laws we have are more evolved versions of laws that have been in place since Hammurabi (pre-Christianity) wrote the first code. And civilization was around for thousands of years before laws, writing, even verbal communication. Don't rape, don't kill, don't steal - like in Boondock Saints - these are concepts everyone should get behind. It's usually the religious nuts who say "the US based it's laws on OUR teachings!" - which really isn't even close to true. Don't get sucked in by their bs. Laws are there for good reasons... most of them anyway.
No More Democrats or GOP, please
2009-10-13 00:41:37 UTC
Where does it say that the laws and Constitution are based on the Bible?
anonymous
2009-10-13 00:45:56 UTC
The Constitution somehow comes from some Book for the Freemasons, George Washington was a Freemason, if I remember right.



The separation of church and state was put in place because if someone like the Pope had political and religious authority and respect he would be very powerful + our country was founded in the escape of religious persecution & other stuff but mainly that.
anonymous
2009-10-13 00:40:33 UTC
Because the laws and constitution AREN'T based on the Bible.
anonymous
2009-10-13 00:46:14 UTC
In the US at least, the laws and constitution *aren't* based on the bible.

They're based on a combination of humanistic principles, English common law, and common sense.



Peace.
Kai Dao
2009-10-13 00:42:24 UTC
"Since reason is the only sure guide which God has given to man, reason is the only foundation of a just government."



John Locke (1632-1704) Inspiration to our founding fathers.



The laws we have in our nation are based on values that are found in philosophies and spiritual beliefs across the globe from different periods of time BC and AD. Killing, Steeling, being untruthful in certain instances. But these are laws meant to protect people against wrong doing, not to instill discipline.



The law also does not punish people for adultery and covetting others' possesions.



You can covet my *** all you want to here in the States, but if you touch it, then I can sue yours.



(Wow, two thumbs down. I guess ignorance wins out over wisdom 2 to 1 and it's a sad day for America)
Stalin
2009-10-13 00:41:36 UTC
The Laws and Constution are far from being based from the Bible. It is Civil Obedience and equality for each individual.
IngloriousYank
2009-10-13 00:45:06 UTC
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . ."



The First Amendment of the Constitution states the government should not be advocating any religion of any kind. "One nation UNDER GOD" Should be taken out of the pledge.
Moi
2009-10-13 00:41:46 UTC
The earliest American settlers came to America from Europe to escape religious persecution at the hands of the king. Why would they allow it in their new country?



What if Obama made Islam the official state religion?



Thank God for the separation clause!
anonymous
2009-10-13 00:41:12 UTC
They aren't. If you did a little studying you'd have seen that America was set up to be a secular nation. Separation of church and state still stands.
anonymous
2009-10-13 00:40:57 UTC
Lol first read the Constution and Bill of Rights before making yourself look stupid.

The Constution and Bible are in no way related.



P.S. a lot of the founding fathers were agnostic.
"T"
2009-10-13 00:43:05 UTC
John 17:16; 18:36.
llamaxcore
2009-10-13 00:41:23 UTC
I don't remember the last time we had a disobedient children stoning festival.
dr schmitty
2009-10-13 00:44:22 UTC
why do folks pretend that they understand things when really they just repeat what they have heard from others, never bothering to evaluate?
jake
2009-10-13 00:41:42 UTC
yes bec it doesn't matter what the bases of it is, bottom line its the ethical thing. if there was that prob than you would be allowed to kill


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