Those of Jewish faith: please explain if notions of the messiah were different during the Babylonian exile?

Question

According to Wikipedia (I generally find it to be pretty reliable):

"For many Christians today, "messiah" refers to the personal and divine savior of all humankind, an apocalyptic notion of messiah, as one who will usher in the end of history by resurrecting the dead and by executing God's judgement over humankind. This apocalyptic vision has its origins in Jewish culture during the Babylonian Exile and the Second Temple Period. Nevertheless, it existed alongside a nationalist notion of messiah, as one who will defend the Jews against foreign oppressors and rule the Jews justly, and by divine right. This nationalist vision has its origins in the Hebrew Bible, and endures among Jews today."

So a nationalist view was just one of two views about the messiah? Please clarify.

Answer 1

Divorah and Mama Pajama have already explained the meaning of the work "messiah" very adequately. as well as underlining some of the distinctions between Jewish and Christian messianism.



The short answer to your question is that messianic ideas and beliefs seem to be present among the exilic and post exilic prophets, but these developed and matured - often in different directions - as time progressed. Originally, messianic ideas may have been associated with the idea of an ideal, future king like the legendary David. After the exile, when the monarchy ended, a future high priest enters the frame alongside the Davidic ruler (Zech 6:9-15), an idea that persisted in the later priestly and David figures at Qumran. Additionally, a 'prophet like Moses' is expected (Deut 18).



It's anachronistic to associate apocalyptic literature and a belief in resurrection with the period of the exile, but Jewish apocalyptic (produced between the late third century BCE and the second century CE) witnesses further expansion of messianic belief and speculation. In Daniel we have a dying messiah in ch 9 (not a future ruler but the much loved high priest Onias III who was assassinated by political rivals), and the enigmatic "human like figure" or "son of man" in ch 7 who is probably the angel Michael - Judah's heavenly representative and warrior. Daniel is notable for lacking any clear reference to a future ruler, apart from the heavenly "son of man" who is distinct from the Ancient of Days in the MT but identified with him in the LXX.

Answer 2

The Jews wrote the rules for their Messiah.

Saul-Paul wrote his stuff so that his bloke fit different parts of the prophesy...

BUT he missed a few.



Following is a list of stuff the Messiah had to fulfil in his own lifetime.

Jebus failed the test… no second chances.



*The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)

* Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)

* The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)

* He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8-10)

* The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)

* Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)

* Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)

* He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)

* All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)

* Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)

* There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)

* All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)

* The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)

* He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)

* Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)

* The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)

* The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)

* Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)

* The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot

* He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)

* Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)

* He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)

* He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)



Additional details here: http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html

~

Answer 3

The word 'messiah' is the anglicised form of the Hebrew 'moshiach'. The word 'moshiach' is a TITLE given to ANY person who is annointed with oil in a ceremony specified in the Torah.



We have had many moshiachim (pl) in the forms of kings, priests, and even warriors. There is nothing supernatural about a moshiach and never has been.



There is a prophecy of a future moshiach who will rule Israel, but again, nothing supernatural about that person. There is no 'end of the world' in Jewish teachings nor beliefs.



The Christian Church took the word 'messiah' and invented its own concept

completely alien to Judaism but common in the various pagan religions of the region.



As for wikipedia, I've yet to read an article about Judaism on that site that wasn't rife with errors.

Answer 4

The Book of Daniel (from the Jewish scriptures) occurs during the time of the Babylonian exile. In it, Daniel makes specific references to the Messiah.



1)

**Daniel 9:25-26



"So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until MESSIAH [emphasis mine] the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. 26"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people (the ROMANS: my note) of the prince who is to come will DESTROY the city AND the sanctuary."



So Daniel tells the Jewish people in his book that the Messiah (Hebrew is Moshiach) will arrive BEFORE the Temple is destroyed. (FYI - that happened in 70CE).



2)

***Daniel chapter 7:13-14

13... I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14... And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.



This is a prophecy about the Messiah also in Daniel. Even the ancient Rabbis viewed it as this way. (Rashi certainly did - but did not believe it was Yeshua.)



**He comes with the clouds. (what about gravity?)



**He is in heaven BEFORE he arrives with the clouds. (He is in a heavenly meeting according to verse 13)



**The entire world (Kol Am) will "serve" him.

(Same word "serve" that is used of Daniels friends who "serve" God (see Daniel 3:17)



**He is has a kingdom (sholtan) or dominion, but God alone is supposed to have this (see Daniel 7:27)



**It is an everlasting Kingdom or dominion... but if Messiah is a mere man, then won't he just die in 70 or 80 years? How then can his kingdom be an everlasting one?



Some verses show that the Messiah would also be God visiting us… Other verses show that He cannot simply be a man.



1. Isaiah 9:6 ‘For a child is born unto us, a son is given unto us; and the government is upon his shoulder; and his name is called Pele-joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom;’



This child which is born is called El-Gibbor, which is 'Mighty God' and is never used of a man. Avi-Ad is literally ‘Father of Eternity’ and could never describe a mere man. Some quotes for you…



In the Targum of Isaiah we read: "His name has been called from old, Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, He who lives forever, the Anointed One (Messiah), in whose days peace shall increase upon us."



Midrash Mishle, S. Buber edition: The Messiah is called by eight names: Yinnon, Tzemah, Pele ["Miracle"], Yo'etz ["Counselor"], Mashiah ["Messiah"], El ["God"], Gibbor ["Hero"], and Avi 'Ad Shalom ["Eternal Father of Peace"]



3) According to the Jewish Tanach (Bible) Messiah would be…



• Born in Bethlehem..... The Jewish prophet said so in Micah 5:2

• Reach many in Galilee..... The Jewish prophet said so in Isaiah 9:1

• Born a descendant of David..... The Jewish prophet said so in 2 Samuel 7:12-13

• Be a Leader like Moses.......... The Jewish prophet said so in Deuteronomy 18:18

• Enter Jerusalem on a donkey..... The Jewish prophet said so in Zechariah 9:9

• Arrive after King David died..... The Jewish prophet said so in 2 Samuel 7:12-13

• A rejected man....... The Jewish prophet said so in Isaiah 53:3

• Die as a substitute for others..... The Jewish prophet said so in Isaiah 53:5

• Be pierced..................... The Jewish prophet said so in Zechariah 12:10

• Rise from the dead...... The Jewish prophet said so in Isaiah 53:10

• Have followers from all nations...... The Jewish prophet said so in Daniel 7:14



And even MORE important..............



• Messiah was to arrive BEFORE The Temple was destroyed in 70 C.E..... See -> Daniel 9:26

• Messiah was to have an impact on all nations..... The Jewish prophet said so in Isaiah 49:6

• Messiah was to ‘sprinkle’ many Nations..... The Jewish prophet said so in Isaiah 52.13 and used in Hebrew in Leviticus (Lev. 16.14) of the sprinkling of the blood of atonement.





And this is just the start…..



The list goes on and on,



There is not a shadow of doubt - Yeshua (Jesus in Hebrew) was/is the Messiah of Israel.

Answer 5

You ask if Jewish notions of the messiah were different during the Babylonian exile, but different from what? In Judaism the word messiah still means the same thing it has always meant and there aren't two primary meanings..it refers to an anointed ruler...( either king or high priest ) and not to God incarnate or a demigod nor to an angel.

The prophetic vision of a Davidic ruler who has a specific job to do in bringing about the fulfillment of the purpose of the covenant of Israel, a world of justice, brotherhood, peace, and compassion in which all humanity recognizes God as our Creator and all humans equal before God as brethren, had its development in the Babylonian exile from passages in the Tanakh.



Even though the Davidic ruler is what is generally referred to as "The Messiah", the high priest of the Temple will also be a messiah, an anointed ruler. Neither messiah will be worshipped.

The Christian notion of "messiah" is at odds with the Jewish concept of an anointed ruler who brings about world peace and universal knowledge of God because it's notion is about God impregnating a human to either become incarnate or create a demigod, and both of those notions are idolatry for a Jew and require the Jew to reject what all Israel heard at Sinai from God directly.

see more

http://mamaspajamaparty.blogspot.com/search/label/messiah



At that link you'll find several things that may help you understand both the Hebrew Bible concept of the Davidic messiah and some things about other messiahs, like Hezekiah, King Cyrus and Simeon Bar Kochba.

The Christian end of the world scenarios don't exist within Judaism. The messianic age will be a different world in that it will be one in which no one needs to teach anyone else about God or Torah since all will know God and know one another as equal before God without being taught, and the world will be peaceful and justice will prevail. That's the "end of the world" notion of Judaism, a better one that what we have now, and the purpose of our covenant is to strive to bring that about in how we live and honor God's gift of life.

You are VERY wrong about Wikipedia when it comes to anything about Jews and Judaism. It is hijacked DAILY by people who post insulting antisemitic notions in amid facts and hope people don't notice..and more commonly, it is hijacked by unscrupulous people who post Christian or Islamic dogma in under certain topics, sometimes to insult Jews, sometimes to misinform that certain things that are forbidden by God in Torah are a part of Judaism in order to missionize to uneducated Jews.



I am not even going to go to your Wiki link. I recall spending FIVE MONTHS back in 2001 removing the continual disruptive lie that Jews sniff the socks of our dead at their funerals. You read that right. sniff the socks of our dead at funerals. .Yes, something that insulting, that bizarre was posted removed and then reposted in various ways and with various German insults peppered in among the nonsense, under Jewish burial customs.



I'm just grateful to know that most schools and NO University that I know of..permits it to be used as a reference for term papers or for school reports as it is so unreliable on many topics. But make no mistake, there are people abusing it to disseminate antisemitism and to insult and anger Jews with libelous charges. Just as they do it here, they do it in Wikipedia, too.



I also have known of people who posted misinformation under other topics there just cause they could and they'd have drinking betting games to see whose misinformation would stay there the longest. The most commonly hijacked areas for that game are topics they think high school students would use for reports. The contest winner had to buy a round of drinks for all participating. Some of them bragged about that online on another forum and I've seen at least one of those who bragged about that there, post in Yahoo, too.

So be careful with any website ( including THIS one) that permits anyone to give information.

Always check references and use your discernment. SOME good information is on Wikipedia, but almost every topic on Jews or Judaism gets hijacked with at least one insulting bit of misinformation.



Everard and Divorah have given accurate answers about the Jewish concept of messiah from the Tanakh, although they do not actually answer your question asking about any possible difference in the concept of the DAVIDIC messiah ( and I think that's what you're actually asking about rather than simply what the word means )

For Jews, messiah does not refer to any incarnate deity or sacrifice for sin and no messiah has any authority to usurp God's law nor grant atonement that is God's exclusive domain.



The Babylonian exile was a period that was a shock for many Jews since they believed that while they were living in the land of Israel God would protect them..and they were removed from it and taken into captivity. This is actually when the concepts of a messiah RESTORING the people Israel to her land began and when the Babylonian exile ended, the Jews returning to Jerusalem rebuilt the Temple, but the majority of Jews remained outside of Israel.





Here is a very good website to learn more about the Jewish concept of Messiah its development and other aspects of belief.



http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/mashiach.htm



and this site is great to learn the differences between Judaism and Christianity

http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org



that and Rabbi Stuart Federow's book, Judaism and Christianity; A Contrast. will help you learn about the Jewish concept messiah