Atheists, why don't you just do what you want?

Question

To start off with, I'm not really trying to convince you of anything. I just want to know. I often hear that many atheists try to follow a set of morals instead of just following their will. That is, they won't do certain things even if they know they won't be caught. I always felt like if I were an atheist, then I would basically be the world's worst person, doing whatever I thought benefitted me, since I would have no absolute standard for morality. I would probably steal, murder, manipulate, etc. as I felt like, provided I wasn't caught. Before you call me evil, I think it's important to realize that good, evil, right, and wrong don't really have much meaning in the sort of chaotic, meaningless universe that many atheists, especially nihilists, believe in. So tell me, why don't you just do whatever you freakin' want to? I would.

Answer 1

So all that is between you becoming a psychopath is your religion?

That never stopped most of them.

The rest of us have ethics, and good will toward each other.

Something I highly recommend to christians.

Answer 2

You're confusing morality with moral claims.



> "since I would have no absolute standard for morality." <



You don't have one now.



> " I would probably steal, murder, manipulate, etc. as I felt like, provided I wasn't caught." <



Then you're a sociopath who should seek help before you harm yourself or someone else.



> "why don't you just do whatever you freakin' want to?" <



Generally, I do. Incidentally, I've never wanted to kill or steal or do any of the unpleasant things you would apparently enjoy without your god-belief.



> "Is it all just based on feelings?" <



It's based on some basic assumptions about average human behavior, and the logic takes care of itself from there. For example:



Universally Preferable Behavior

http://www.freedomainradio.com/FreeBooks.aspx#upb



The Superiority of Secular Morality

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq2C7fyVTA4



> "Both can't be right." <



It depends on what you're talking about.



> "I would just ignore the moral feelings that I had because I would have no logical reason to obey them." <



Then you clearly have little knowledge of ethics.



> "I would have no reason to be moral if I thought there was no god, as all I would have was a feeling." <



Actions have consequences, whether you feel good about it or not.



> " I find it interesting that He also commanded that slaves be released every so often, and He got pretty mad at the people who didn't obey that rule." <



I think you're sugar-coating. Regardless, would that argument work today? "Oh, it's cool. I let my slaves go every so often."



http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Slavery



> "Biblical slavery wasn't the same as black people in chains being whipped while they picked cotton nearly naked." <



It was pretty much the same.



Edit:

> "I've already explained that." <



You clearly stated that you believe morals come from a god, and that without this god-belief you would "probably steal, murder, manipulate, etc. as I felt like, provided I wasn't caught." You attempt to backpedal from this sociopathic position you established, but your later clarification is just a weak restatement of the same idea. Even if you were a witless shell of a person who lacked any ability to reason about his own behavior, is just "feeling" that murder, rape and theft are wrong insufficient to prevent you from engaging in those behaviors? If not, you might be a socipath, and I say that not as an insult but in a medical context.



"...a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sociopath



You claim to have a conscience, but I question that based solely on things you have written here. If you do, then one is left to wonder why you think it would magically disappear if you didn't believe in a god. It wouldn't, as hundreds of millions of atheists and nonreligious persons the world over can attest. This brings up the interesting corollary of what you think about individuals who believe in gods other than yours. Are they also killers-in-waiting since they don't share your exact belief? Some alleged gods (i.e. people who believe in those gods) don't echo the prominent Judo-Christian moral claims.



Your entire premise is broken. But you can't possibly do something reasonable like rethink it, can you? No, you'd rather accuse your respondents of not paying attention.

Answer 3

Because atheism does not equate not having no emotions or basing everything off of logic. Just because someone doesn't believe in God doesn't mean they don't have certain inborn morals that stop them from running rampant and killing everybody. If God exists, then he would give the same moral code to everybody regardless of whether they believed in him or not. So an atheist might not think these morals cam from God, but that wouldn't mean that they don't exist.



Alternatively, you could argue this is an evolutionary trait, as it's also found in chimpanzees and supposedly is intended to make sure that they look out for each other in times of trouble, in a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" type of way. So that "God given" sense of morality would actually have a basis in logic,even if we don't consciously realize it or act on it because of logic.



About your comment to Sarah about slavery, a truly loving and compassionate God wouldn't have wanted slaves to be released "every so often", he wouldn't have wanted them to be slaves at all. The whole thing goes back to the idea of divine rights and certain people being decreed by God to be better than others. Whether Biblical slavery was the same as modern slavery or not, it was still working for others without getting paid. Just keep in mind that the Bible was written several hundred years after Jesus appeared on earth by a group of MEN, who it's unlikely to be completely accurate anyway.



Hope this helped :)

Answer 4

I am an atheist yet I am not a psychotic person trying to destroy mankind, heck (I refrained from using the word hell because you Christians go crazy sometimes) I am a better person than most religious people! They all get stereotypes of people while I embrace others, race or religion I don't care but people have killed and mascaraed each other over religion for centuries. If you think Atheists cause the worlds problems do 2 things, 1 turn on the news and you will see most murderers are religious (not just Muslims you racist s**t I know you though that) and second open a history book, you will see time and time again people who are religious killing each other.



I, an atheist, have morals not guided by religion or spirituality but by belief that I can be a good person without relying on magical mystical beings who have killed its own people over and over.



Read your bible, look for how many genocides you God has done, how many times Jesus or disciples (Gods or Jesus') have said "Bah murder isnt that bad as long as my religion wins" (paraphrasing of course).

Answer 5

I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I have to disagree with you.

The humanist view point, which many atheists subscribe to, is based largely on minimizing damage to society as a whole.

Honestly, I think your doing yourself a disservice. You day you would do all these horrible things if you were am atheist, I think you need to realist that your morals really are inside you, and you'd find not much would change.



I'll point out that you're system is actual MORE subject to doing evil because you can, than an atheist's is, because if you cheat, or are rude, disrespectful, "sin" or do anything, you can go ask forgiveness from someone who wasn't even involved.



If you won't do something when you have your "magic forgiveness button" I honestly believe you wouldn't as an atheist either.

Answer 6

Let me put it this way:

Monkeys have never read the bible, therefore they can do whatever they want!

Why won't monkey go and kill other monkey? Even if he won't get caught? For example two monkeys meet in middle of jungle one is big other is small, so why won't big one kill small one?

Or let's put it this way:

Why didn't people go killing each other before Jesus or Muhammad or whatever religion were created?

Yes there were many wars in past, but these people had no choice! If they refused, they would be tortured to death or something like that! And in past, religion had more power then! Now, when around 10% of people are atheists and that number is growing, no one is being tortured to death for declining to join army or being homosexual, and number of wars has decreased!



Alright, to shorten the story! You can read about with damaged brain part, which was found to be morality center, being sociopaths! One workers head was penetrated by metal pipe but he survived! He was best person people would say, but it was found that morality center was damaged, so he started manipulating stealing and being douchebag to people!



Why don't I do whatever I want? I do! Most of the time! I don't want to kill anyone! If I had to, I would feel terrible! I know it would be better for me to manipulate people, but I can't do that because I don't want to, I wouldn't want that to be done to me!

Answer 7

In the words of physicist Steven Weinberg, "With or without religion, there are good people who do good things and bad people who do bad things. It takes religion to get good people to do bad things."



Does that answer your question? EVERY religious believer I've ever met basically only believe because they either fear hell or greedily want heaven. What basis is that for morality? It isn't moral at all. Not in the least. In fact, it is immoral - it says you only do good because you fear punishment or expect a reward. If you think that the only thing that keeps people moral is religion, then you are mistaken. Socrates, Plato, and many great thinkers discussed morality without any reference to a vengeful god. They recognized the "carrot and stick" approach taken by religion isn't moral at all.

Answer 8

I do not understand your question. Most Atheists do follow a set of Morals, there is no effort involved in it. You are saying that because someone is an Atheist they should be committing all sorts of crime etc, which makes no sense either. Are you really that shallow. Just because someone is Atheist does not make them a bad person, but obviously in your mind it does. I would say you are ignorant and leave it at that.

Answer 9

You have absolutely no empathy?



You're sick.



Added to address additional details: No, you didn't make yourself clear. In fact, you unconditionally stated that without your "god" given morals you wouldn't stop at anything. But now it turns out that what you REALLY want to know is where do our morals come from. That's simple. I can give you two sources:

1. Logic. If I don't fvck over someone else, they are less likely to fvck me over.

2. Innate morality. We EVOLVED a set of moral standards known as reciprocal altruism, just as most if not all social animals did. Research it. There are an awful lot of studies that support this.

Answer 10

I think E has the best answer here, and I've said things along those lines in the past. Moral nihilists (which is who you're really addressing here, not atheists, though there is a ton of overlap) really do do whatever they want, but because they have basic empathy and were raised in a society where prosocial behavior is encouraged, what they want to do aligns with what is traditionally considered moral.

Answer 11

Sir,



Atheists Or Theists Nobody Have The Power Just Do What They Want.That Is The God's Orders.

Answer 12

Absolute nonsense. How often do we have to hear this idiocy from theists who claim that it is necessary to have some magic book tell us how to behave? You, my friend, are what is known as a sociopath if you do not have any sense of empathy or morality. Most of us (even theists) avoid doing evil things because we DO have such a sense, and we do not wish to harm others. That in the end is all morality is, a sense of empathy that prevents us from harming others unnecessarily.

Answer 13

I fear the history of Western Philosophy is likely to remain a mystery to you. Start with the Greek philosophers.

Answer 14

The fact that you would do whatever immoral deed you wanted to were it not for some old book that delineated right and wrong for you is not something I'd be proud of. By all means, stick to your book if that's the only thing that's keeping you from being a thief or murderer.

Answer 15

It really frightens me that the only thing stopping you from committing crimes and hurting people is fear of a god. What are you NOT willing to do for the same god?

Answer 16

Because there are better reasons for doing the right thing than that someone is watching you and will punish you if you don't. I guess we have morality, the real kind, not the infantile one that you have which thinks the only good reason for doing right by others is that you'll get the stick if you don't.

Answer 17

Actually, I do just do whatever I freakin' want. I want to be a decent person.



Since you, apparently, don't want to be a decent person, I guess we can all be glad you're at least motivated by fear.



***************

Edit: I did read what you wrote, and I think your "additional details" are disingenuous.



Yes, actually, it is based on feelings. You make a completely unfounded claim that feelings are baseless, as if they simply arose randomly. Feelings like empathy are a result of hundreds of thousands of years of humanity's evolution as social beings. If someone feels differently than I do, and we both act on our feelings, one of us goes to jail. But the vast, vast, majority of people feel as I do.



You say, "I would probably steal, murder, manipulate", and then you say, "I would just ignore the moral feelings that I had". Don't blame us if we don't think you "have a conscience/empathy". Your claim, "I'm not saying that I want to do terrible things" is inconsistent with your original statement.



The Biblical God only commanded that the Jewish slaves be released every so often. Slaves from other tribes were slaves for life. (The Jewish slaves probably were more like we would think of as indentured servants. Christians often try to justify the slavery in the Bible by focusing on the Jewish slaves, and ignoring the others.)



We think you only have morals out of fear, because you said, "I would probably steal, murder, manipulate, etc. as I felt like, provided I wasn't caught." From that, we conclude that you don't steal, murder, manipulate, etc., because you are afraid of being caught--caught by God, to be specific.



You know what really scares me about people like you? Your only "standard" of morality is your God's whim. With that as your standard, I have to think that if you had a vision of God, telling you that he'd changed his mind, and now murder was good instead of bad, you'd go on a murderous spree. Whereas if I had a vision telling me that murder was good, I'd tell the vision it was one messed up dude.



(Of course, if you say you wouldn't go on a murderous spree, then you'd be admitting that your moral sense does not actually come from God. And if you think "God wouldn't say that", I suggest you consider the Euthyphro dilemma.)

Answer 18

'Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.'



Attributed to Marcus Aurelius, author unknown

Answer 19

You admit to not having integrity.



By the way, take a good look, religionists... the ones who pretend we atheists make it up when we say people like this exist or that we get asked this a lot outside of this Q/A forum.



I get asked this a LOT... by Christians with a straight face, "I would rape and murder if it weren't for my belief in God..."



Me: Backing away slowly.

Answer 20

Even horses have a rule of decency. They do not go round killing all other horses, this is innate in living animals including man. I do not need the threat of hell such as religious nutter dream up tp keep order in life. Why do religious nutters thrive on Hell the Devil, Sinning to keep their mind from not going astray.

Answer 21

Your not going to understand this but the reality is...it's all Non-sense. I was a Christian for 25 years, realized it was all garbage, tried to believe in the Christian faith anyway but I couldn't ignore the overwhelming evidence & reasoning against Christianity, so I dropped it

Answer 22

I feel sorry for you. Your religion has completely corrupted your sense of morality and right and wrong. I am doing what I wan't already - if you really want to hurt others -- people like you should be locked up.

Answer 23

So because I don't believe in deities I should do horrible things? That makes no sense. Why do religious people think that morals come from gods? Don't you have a dictionary?

Answer 24

Oh, please! Just because that is what you would do, what makes you think that everyone should feel the same as you? Who are you? What do we know about you? I have a list of what you would call "morals" - I call them precepts - I call it societal empathy and psychological fitness. I am intelligent enough to know right from wrong and perceptive enough to know right from wrong.



1 . Being Honest, Truthful, Trustworthy— is frank and open, refraining from lying, stealing, or cheating

2. Having Integrity— is principled—being of sound moral character, showing courage of convictions, standing up for what is right.

3. Being Caring/ Compassionate/ Benevolent—shows good will, generosity; charitable, considerate, kind.

4. Doing One’s Civic Duty—abides by the laws and rules; does fair share; participates in community betterment.

5. Having Courage—does what is right, even in the face of personal consequences, rejection by others, or danger.

6. Being Willing to Sacrifice—gives of oneself or one's possessions to help others or for something one believes in.

7. Maintaining Self-Control— is able to stay calm and rational, even under conditions of temptation, stress, or aggravated assault (such as being teased or "put down') by others.

8. Being just and Fair—treats others as you would want them to treat you; rules applied equitably; does not discriminate on improper basis.

9. Being Cooperative—gets along well with others, willing to compromise; committed to the concept of neighborhood, society, country, and world.

10. Being Persevering/ Diligent—puts out best effort and works hard; does not give up easily; keeps trying despite hardships; self reliant.

11. Keeping Promises— attempts to keep commitments, reliable, dependable.

12. Doing no harm—considers the potential for physical or emotional harm to others and avoids that harm.

13. Pursuing excellence/ takes pride in work—does one's best; is not unduly influenced by setbacks or external pressures to do less than one can.

14. Taking personal responsibility—is accountable, dependable, amenable; considers consequences and accepts responsibility for own actions or inactions; does not shift blame for own mistakes to others.

15. Having Empathy —is able to identify with another's feelings or point of view in order to better understand him/her.

16. Benefiting others —makes decisions that have the potential for a positive effect on others.

17. Having Respect for others —Acknowledges and honors the rights, freedom, and dignity of others.

18. Having Patience - knows that good products, actions and outcomes take time; can delay gratification; does not leap before looking.

19. Being Forgiving -- is able to leave upsetting and hurtful things behind; stops the cycle of the hurt to others or oneself; does not seek revenge.

20. Making Peace - is able to compromise, to talk things out without resorting to violence, to seek solutions to problems that will be in everyone's best interests; values calmness and safety.



How many of these do you hold within yourself and how many do you practice?

Answer 25

So, you're saying that your fear of a hell is the ONLY thing keeping you from murdering others?



You should seek help for this problem.



I have no such desire to kill other people.



Your bible has no "absolute standard for morality". Repeatedly we are told about entire populations being murdered by god and his followers, while we are also told that we aren't allowed to kill others.

Today, it is highly immoral to kill children, to keep slaves, to force women and little girls to be sexual slaves, yet god of the bible repeatedly condones all of those activities.

Answer 26

"If you don't believe there is a God to answer to why don't you go round raping & murdering as much as you want?" I do, which is not at all

Answer 27

Why don't you just do what you want you can always ask for forgiveness

Also there's a place called prison were we get punished

Answer 28

Because as a human being I have empathy, most of us have it

Answer 29

This is the creepiest thing I've read on this website in a very long time. I'm dead serious by the way.

Answer 30

You're not thinking straight. Get help. You're loony if your fear of Hell is what's keeping you from doing crazy things.

Answer 31

Because it's wrong to kill, cheat, and steal, fear of hell or not

Answer 32

That's what I typically experience from so called born again christians-they have no genuine concience.

Answer 33

Its coming

Answer 34

You just defined yourself as a sociopath.

Answer 35

Who says I don't do wtf I want. BTW, I believe in the LORD!