Question:
I'd like an atheist to explain to me their position.?
Suzu1980
2006-12-28 16:59:40 UTC
I'm not trying to be explosive, I'm honestly curious. If you believe in the Big Bang, what caused it? Most Big Bang theorists say it was from gases mixing together, but where did the gases come from? Do Atheists believe that the universe is infinite? If there is an end, what happens if you go an inch further? And why did morality evolve??? If anyone can answer these, I'd be much obliged.
24 answers:
ÜFÖ
2006-12-28 17:12:08 UTC
I honestly don't know what to believe about how the universe got here, or how our solar system got here. It's kind of like asking where did God come from. It's just difficult to comprehend.



I don't think the universe is infinite. There are different theories out there about this, but none have been proven. However it seems logical to me that it must have boundaries.



Morality depends on environment. Our environment controls the type of civilization we have, and that civilization creates social structure, and social structure creates morality.



For example, consider 8000 yrs ago, a group of people who live in a warm, fertile area will have male and female roles that are more equal than one living in a cold, harsh environment. The reason for that is women can survive much easier when the ground is fertile and they don't have to hunt large game. Large game is in the cold areas where farming isn't always feasible. The people in the warm area will see men and women both doing important jobs, while the people in the cold area will see men doing the more important job. Of course the women may work harder but the bottom line is they most likely cannot survive without the men. Morality will be determined by the men in this civilization and will be biased towards male comfort.



Also consider the movie Alive. Most people believe cannibalism is immoral. However hardly anyone would condemn the people who chose to eat their fellow passengers who had died, since it was their only way to survive.
umwut?
2006-12-28 17:14:39 UTC
Honestly, as an atheist, I don't concern myself of how we got here. I'm more concerned with where we're going. But the notion that we were placed here by a spirit greater than the universe and more powerful than a locomotive just doesn't sit well with me.



Sure, I believe in the universe was formed through a singularity, whatever size that was. I can see you're eluding to a greater cause by saying what created the gases etc that created the universe that created us. Well, what created the creator?



The hypothetical questions you pose have no concrete answers. Is the universe infinite? Probably not, though I don't know for sure and what would happen if we stepped across the line? We'll never know.



Morality evolved from the basic need to survive and to control the masses. Morality is universal - other cultures that do not believe in your god have the same morals, or similar ones. There are also cultures where their morals and beliefs are way different than your own and may be wrong to you. But it's right to them.



So, if there is a god (hypothetically speaking), who's is the right god? Are there multiple gods for multiple cultures and societies?



Simple answer is, there aren't any gods. Why can't you have faith in man and the notion that we, over time, created our own morals through trial and error that eventually brought us to where we are today?
?
2006-12-28 17:01:41 UTC
the big bang came from what is called "the singularity", and it was a point smaller than a single atom. Think of a really big black hole that encompassed everything in the entire universe. Science has not yet been able to explain WHY the big bang happened. But the big bang DID happen. I do not believe it happened, I KNOW it happened because I can read and understand books on the subject.

NO big bang theorists that I have heard or read about say that it happened from gasses mixing together, where did you get this? Do you have a link?



No I do not believe the universe is infinite, if it was infinite then we wouldn't KNOW as a FACT that it is expanding. If it was infinite, then how could it be expanding?



Morality evolved because people needed a simple set of rules to live by so that they could all get along instead of living in anarchy. This way they could easily live in groups, create culture, share work, etc. (make life easier)
skepsis
2006-12-28 17:34:45 UTC
At this time, cosmologists can't incontrovertibly explain the "cause" of the Big Bang (or how the question might need to be restated), just as theologians can't explain where God came from. But they continue to seek answers, unlike many theologians (Gen 1:2 God created light, the sky and land, but not water. Why not?).



Infinity is a mathematically tricky word, and not everyone agrees on what the universe is. They agree that the universe is expanding but they don't say it is expanding INTO anything. It simply redefines its extent. There is no "outside" to evaluate. Most people don't understand that, (most people also think the sun is a big ball of fire rather than a nuclear chain reaction) but mathematicians do.



"Morality" is merely rules devised by various peoples to direct individual behavior to provide the most benefit and least harm to the culture. Different cultures have different "moralities", depending on how they define their cultural values. Some moral rules survive their useful life in a changing culture and are updated only very slowly due to the restraint of tradition (often through the work of religious leaders appealing to some divine authority).



The point is, anything can be "explained", either with God or without. No explanation is perfect or universally accepted. But no one is trying to be stupid, crazy or evil. They simply adopt a world view that fits their understanding and experience. Insisting that everyone adopt the same view just hinders the search for the final truth.
Sheriam
2006-12-28 17:22:21 UTC
I don't know what the matter from the Big Bang came from; however that doesn't mean I believe it was created by God. There are lots of things we don't know (yet?) about the universe, that doesn't mean they must be explained by magic or religion. Same for what's outside the still-expanding universe. I like space exploration, I like finding out new stuff about other planets existing around other stars, perhaps some day we'll find life there... that's more feasible for now. Maybe one day, either during my lifetime or later in the future of mankind, we'll also discover more answers about the Big Bang and the 'end' of the universe, but for now there are lots of other things closer that we still have to explore. I do not feel the need to be able to explain everything.



Morality came for social reasons; without morality, we'd fight and kill each other and we wouldn't survive.... humans evolved the way they have by working together, and we need morals & ethics for that to work well. Morality did not evolve from religion, I believe it's the other way around. Nowadays most people (at least in most countries) will follow laws made by the government. However, way-back-when, there wasn't such a strong government yet. So those in charge knew several rules had to be followed: do not kill, do not steal, take care of your parents (for there were no homes for the elderly), do not lie... They could simply have said "Hey, it's a good idea to not do these things, it'll make life safer and more pleasant for all of us", but then there'd always be some folks who'd say 'well, sure, but not now' and do it anyways. "Hey, it's a good idea to not do these things because if you do you'll suffer in hell for eternity" just comes across much stronger. :-) So that's what some smart folks in charge used back then to get the other people to listen to them....



Btw, I'm not an atheist, I'm Wiccan...most of what I believe in is just common sense; "an it harm none, do as ye will". If we do, we don't go to hell... but we do help make and shape the world we live in, if everyone would follow that simple rule it would be a safe and pleasant place to live... so it's not really any creed made by God, but by people who want to live in peace.
Alex
2006-12-28 17:11:03 UTC
There are several lines of thought. The honest answer is no one knows. The whole problem is that our perception of time has a real mathematical problem around that time. Time gets warped to the point that there is no "before" when you talk about the big bang so it is impossible to talk about it and have it mean anything. I can't quickly explain that, but it is from Einstein and Hawking's work. A really good book on it is Hawkins "The Universe in A Nutshell."



It always comes down to something was there forever. It is not logical to add the god step without a reason. I just think the universe always existed somehow.



The reason that I buy this is that several predictions made by these guys have panned out, and none have been wrong. Time getting bent can be checked with atomic clocks in supersonic jets and it does change time. The echo of the big bang took decades to get instruments that were able to detect it, but it was there as predicted. Light getting bent by gravity can be observed.
NHBaritone
2006-12-28 17:10:20 UTC
The issue of what caused the big bang is yet to be solved by science. As a matter of fact, it is in the midst of competing, equally compelling theories.



This is the way science works. Theories are presented, tested, and either accepted, modified, or rejected. The need for an exact, final answer is a goal of science, but every scientist is skeptical of every explanation until there is sufficient compelling data to support it.



Religious people want to explain something as yet unexplained by inserting God into the equation. Scientists are willing to wait and gather data to find out the natural explanation. They are comfortable remaining curious and unfulfilled.



By the way, data from the big bang is still being gathered. One aspect that has only recently been determined is that the expansion of the universe is continuing to accelerate. If these measurements are correct, this means that the universe will not return to the a single, highly energized point, but instead will continue expanding forever. Eventually, every galaxy or star will be very far apart from all others, and the universe will cool to a vast, mostly empty void.
poisongirl6485
2006-12-28 17:04:31 UTC
Well, I don't know about the Big Bang--it may be true, it may not be. Maybe the universe was created out of something totally different altogether---I don't know. As for where the gases came from---again, I Don't know. Nobody knows. But it makes more sense to me from a scientific standpoint that it was NOT some big man in the sky creating everything.



And you can be a moral person without having a religion. Religion in ancient times consisted of worshipping nature or the sun---morality wasn't even really an issue. I think a lot of it is simply common sense and human intuition to know what is right and what is wrong. I know what is right and wrong because I was raised with morals and values. I don't need a book to tell me how to live or how to behave.
mdfalco71
2006-12-28 18:07:33 UTC
Sad as it may be, you've already had some cogent atheist answers here - we're perfectly aware that we don't have the answers to some of the universe's big questions. That's why we look for theories with the most hard evidence to support them. When you get a little piece of the puzzle, and can forecast from it that something else will happen, that gives you an idea you're on the right track and knowledge increases. I can give you some of my own thoughts on your questions, but are they right? Who's to say? All that defines an atheist is a non-existence in gods. All that means is that the theory of the existence and/or power of gods is not sufficiently backed up with hard evidence to convince someone. That's about as much of a generalised position as we have - all the rest is subjective: what we think, what evidence convinces us of what theories and so on.



My own thoughts on your questions run this way:

Current thought describes a "singularity" that rapidly expanded, defining the universe as it was in that second, and it's been expanding ever since.



Infinite is a bit of a lazy word, I think, especially for something that people think had a beginning. If there's an end, I think it's like a wave-front, expanding away from us faster than we can ever get - I also think this is why people consider it to be infinite - because it's extremely difficult to conceive of.



If there is a wave-front, I have an idea of what lies beyond it, but there's no science behind it that I know of, merely the working of my brain. If the Big Bang theory is accurate, what it seems to describe is the transformation of energy into matter in motion. I think time may be a by-product of matter in motion, like an exhaust gas. So time exists everywhere there is matter and motion - cellular motion, planetary motion - anything that moves. Beyond the wave-front of the universe might be nothing - no matter, no motion, no time. The weird thing about that theory of course is that if, somehow, you managed to "go" there, your own molecules would still presumably be in motion within the system of your body, so you's essentially "colonise" the non-universe with energy, matter, motion and time. No idea what happens if and when that happens :o) Hell, maybe that's where the gods live for all I know, but without the evidence of their existence, they're not part of my theory (time, matter, motion, all that stuff, we have evidence of, by comparison)



And finally, the evolution of morality I think was a gradual thing - when we evolved beyond mating seasons into the capacity to reproduce all year round, and from multi-partner tribes to bonded pairs within those tribes, that idea of exclusive pairs and children of those pairs seemed to be productive for the prosperity of the tribe - more succesful births, more strong tribemembers, more intelligent members etc. Clothing evolved as both a way of protecting against the elements and as a way of putting mating barriers up - you will not mate with this man, this woman, for they are my partner, my child etc. As the tribes evolved into primitive "modern" human civilisations, these things were taken forward as useful and given significance - sex was judged to be "proper" or "prurient" depending on whether or not the rules of the society were followed. We're still, essentially, doing the same thing today - morality moves on, and the societies in which we live define its rules. We follow, or don't, and move the human race forward.



As I say, these are merely my own thoughts and ideas, but I hope they might give you an idea of what at least one atheist thinks.



Peace.
2006-12-28 17:10:15 UTC
I'm not a scientist, but I believe in the Big Bang because really smart people who have spent a lifetime studying this believe it is the best explanation for how the universe came to be. It is no more difficult to believe in this than it is to believe in an all-powerful being which allegedly has no beginning and no end.

I don't think morality has anything to do with religion--the jails aren't filled with atheists, are they? I'm more honest than most church-going people I know. I believe that this is the only life we get. Why not make it as pleasant for everyone as we can? To do that, you need to treat people kindly, don't steal their stuff or kill them. I don't do this to try to gain brownie points with some mythical guy in the sky, so perhaps my motives are more pure than those who apparently would run wild if they didn't think a god was watching them and keeping score.

And, David, you're a bit confused. You make some good points, but if you are an atheist, by definition you do not believe in a god.
eri
2006-12-28 17:05:20 UTC
I think you might be asking people who accept science what they believe, not atheists. Just because someone is religious doesn't mean they know nothing about science.



We don't know what caused the Big Bang yet. We have theories, but we still need to test them. But just because we don't know the answer yet doesn't mean we should just give up and say 'goddidit'. If we had done that 100 years ago, we wouldn't have cures to many diseases we have now. We wouldn't know much about the universe at all. Most evidence points to a beginning somewhere.



Morality doesn't have anything to do with the universe. I think you're really stretching here. People treating other people nicely helps ensure the continuation of our species.
2006-12-28 17:05:21 UTC
Not all atheists believe in the Big Bang theory.



I'm unsure about all it's about, but of what I've heard it sounds most plausible to me.



I am unsure that the universe is infinite. Get back to me on that in a couple years.



End means end. You can't go an inch.



Atheism is not a position. Theism is a position. We are all born (agnostic) atheists by default. It is not a choice.
2006-12-28 17:39:02 UTC
There is no inherent relationship between Atheism and big bang theory. A typical atheist is a highly educated person who has studied religious philosophy and science in great depth. Common sense dictates that nobody would consciously 'choose' to reject religion at the risk of eternal damnation. Simply put, an Atheist is an Atheist because the premise of god did not present itself as an even remotely viable option in his search for truth. There are numerous cases of staunch christians who have decided to take the same educated approach to what they hoped would be validation of their beliefs, only to end up as Atheists. An Atheist may assign one degree of probability or another to the big bang theory, but you would be hard pressed to find a single Atheist who blindly accepts big bang theory the way theists blindly accept god. No offense, but your obvious lack of understanding of even the most basic aspects of big bang theory cannot be resolved in a few sentences in this forum. Please find a bona fide science source to educate yourself on the subject. You will find it interesting and a lot more logical than you might have thought. Good luck.
saopaco
2006-12-28 17:03:21 UTC
We do not know where the universe came from. We make theories to explain it but no one was there to observe it first hand. That does not mean that it was created by an all powerful being, however.



Who knows what lies at the edge of the universe? I will bet that it is not monsters, as people used to think lived beyond the edges of the world.



I was not aware that morality stemmed from religion. I would not have guessed it based on all the holy wars that have been waged.
2006-12-28 17:08:25 UTC
I am an atheist.

Here is what I believe;



God exist.

God created the universe. From the Big Bang.

God created the universe in a way, it will get bigger, forever.

There is nothing beyond the universe.



Here is what I do NOT believe;



I do not believe that religious leaders and political leaders talk DIRECTLY to God.

I do not believe religion was created to help people No matter what the religion, there is always a need for MONEY.



I believe religions divide people. And have done so for thousands of years. My religion is better than yours, etc, etc.

I believe that MOST of the wars that occured over the thousands of years would NOT have happen if there were no religions.



I KNOW that you do not need statues, paintings, crosses, or any other religious symbol to talk to. You talk to God, by voice or in your mind, in your own home.



And I ASK GOD all the time to PLEASE speak to people who approach me, and others, in gas stations, TODAY at the MALL, etc, etc. trying to tell me about "God," ie the so-called church these JEHOVA'S WITNESSES belong to, to STOP going door to door and in the public with their watchtowers and asking people to join, i.e. give more money to, their false church.



Athiest, heathen, and proud of it. I love my God. I do not need Billy Graham to tell me what to do with my beliefs. Including his son.
2006-12-28 17:10:55 UTC
Please don't be explosive...that might hurt...



My view... I hear of the Big Bang, I think ok, that's a possibility, but hard to say for sure. Honestly I really don't care that much, I'm not going to drive myself crazy wondering. It's all here now, not much use in worrying about how. I just simply don't believe any deities were behind it.
young one
2006-12-28 17:16:08 UTC
i don't believe in god or the big bang or any other creation theory. i DON"T KNOW where we came from. but what i DO KNOW is that it's pointless trying to argue for either side. you can not provide irrefutable evidence that proves either side true (if you could, don't you think everyone one earth would believe the same thing?). instead, people should just focus on living an honest life and helping others. there's no need to debate this when it's obviously that no side can win.
2006-12-28 17:09:33 UTC
You'd have to have a pretty solid foundation in physics, particularly universal physics, to properly answer that question. It is my thinking that, while matter cannot be created nor destroyed, energy can be converted to matter and vice versa. This would resolve the issue of matter being created out of nothing, because that "nothing" would be energy. What created that? Either matter or energy, and so it goes. That means that for me, the universe is infinite.



Morality did not evolve, our brains evolved and became sufficiently complex to conceive and define it.
2006-12-28 17:13:58 UTC
Is there something wrong with the faithful that prevents them from just saying "I/we don't know." rather than attributing every unknown to some deity and letting the search for knowledge drop like a lead placenta?



Morality and etiquette evolved to keep us from killing each other and from wanting to kill each other. Sometimes, it works.
iknowtruthismine
2006-12-28 17:25:18 UTC
In as much as I was not around to see how everything came into being (and neither were you),I say, "I don't know ..... YET!" To assume that some god, my less than intellectual ancestors made up, instantaneously farted the universe into being, is absurd
Incoherent Fool
2006-12-28 17:05:26 UTC
We are content to say we do not know, but that we are always looking for answers. However, we can't assume that goddidit.
optimistic_pessimist1985
2006-12-28 18:58:58 UTC
1. Positive View/Position:



The definition of atheism as a "belief" or "doctrine" reflects a view of atheism as a specific ideological stance, as opposed to the rejection or simple absence of a belief.



In philosophical and atheist circles, however, this definition is often disputed and even rejected. The broader, negative has become increasingly popular in recent decades, with many specialized textbooks dealing with atheism favoring it. One prominent atheist writer who disagrees with the broader definition of atheism, however, is Ernest Nagel, who considers atheism to be the rejection of theism (which George H. Smith labeled as explicit atheism, or anti-theism): "Atheism is not to be identified with sheer unbelief... Thus, a child who has received no religious instruction and has never heard about God, is not an atheist—for he is not denying any theistic claims."



Some atheists argue for a positive definition of atheism on the grounds that defining atheism negatively, as "the negation of theistic belief", makes it "parasitic on religion" and not an ideology in its own right. While most atheists welcome having atheism cast as non-ideological, in order to avoid potentially framing their view as one requiring "faith", writers such as Julian Baggini prefers to analyze atheism as part of a general philosophical movement towards naturalism in order to emphasize the explanatory power of a non-supernatural worldview. Baggini rejects the negative definition based on his view that it implies that atheism is dependent on theism for its existence: "atheism no more needs religion than atheists do". Harbour, Thrower, and Nielsen, similarly, have used philosophical naturalism to make a positive argument for atheism. Michael Martin notes that the view that "naturalism is compatible with nonatheism is true only if 'god' is understood in a most peculiar and misleading way", but he also points out that "atheism does not entail naturalism".



2. Negative View/Position:



Among modern atheists, the view that atheism simply means "without theistic beliefs" has a great deal of currency. This very broad definition is often justified by reference to the etymology (cf. privative a), as well as to the consistent usage of the word by atheists. However, others have dismissed the former justification as an etymological fallacy and the latter on the grounds that majority usage outweighs minority usage.



Although this definition of atheism is frequently disputed, it is not a recent invention; as far back as the eighteenth century, d'Holbach (1772) said that "All children are born Atheists; they have no idea of God". More recently, George H. Smith (1979) put a similar view:



"The man who is unacquainted with theism is an atheist because he does not believe in a god. This category would also include the child without the conceptual capacity to grasp the issues involved, but who is still unaware of those issues. The fact that this child does not believe in god qualifies him as an atheist."



Smith coined the terms implicit atheism and explicit atheism to avoid confusing these two varieties of atheism. Implicit atheism is defined by Smith as "the absence of theistic belief without a conscious rejection of it", while explicit atheism—the form commonly held to be the only true form of atheism—is an absence of theistic belief due to conscious rejection.



Many similar dichotomies have since sprung up to subcategorize the broader definition of atheism. Strong, or positive, atheism is the belief that gods do not exist. It is a form of explicit atheism. A strong atheist consciously rejects theism, and may even argue that certain deities logically cannot exist. Weak, or negative, atheism is either the absence of the belief that gods exist (in which case anyone who is not a theist is a weak atheist), or of both the belief that gods exist and the belief that they do not exist (in which case anyone who is neither a theist nor a strong atheist is a weak atheist. While the terms weak and strong are relatively recent, the concepts they represent have existed for some time. The terms negative atheism and positive atheism have been used in the philosophical literature and (in a slightly different sense) in Catholic apologetics.



Contrary to the common view of theological agnosticism—the denial of knowledge or certainty of the existence of deities—as a "midway point" between theism and atheism, under this understanding of atheism, many agnostics may qualify as weak atheists (cf. agnostic atheism). However, others may be agnostic theists. Many agnostics and/or weak atheists are critical of strong atheism, seeing it as a position that is no more justified than theism, or as one that requires equal "faith".



3. Atheism And Intelligence:



According to a study by Paul Bell, published in the Mensa Magazine in 2002, there seems to be an inverse correlation between intelligence and religious belief. Analyzing 43 studies carried out since 1927, Bell finds that all but four reported such a connection, concluding that "the higher one's intelligence or education level, the less one is likely to be religious or hold 'beliefs' of any kind." A survey published in Nature confirms that belief in a personal god or afterlife is at an all time low among the members of the National Academy of Science, only 7.0% of which believed in a personal god as compared to more than 85% of the US general population.





That's not to imply that anyone is stupid for believing religion. Just that skepticism/cynicism is something that appears to grow especially so the more you know.
spir_i_tual
2006-12-28 17:09:24 UTC
Atheist are you, but with less understanding, give um' TIME.
?
2006-12-28 17:04:32 UTC
Big Bang is a man-made theory. God is the Alpha & Omega.


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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