JWs, Which view of the 70 years of Jeremiah 25:11, 12; 29:10 is correct?

Question

"'These nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years. And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,' is the utterance of Jehovah, 'their error, even against the land of the Chaldeans." (Jeremiah 25:11, 12, NWT)

"For thus saith Jehovah, after seventy years are accomplished for Babylon, I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place." (Jere 29:10, ASV, WT edition)

"Daniel was present on the night of October 5/6, 539 B.C.E., when the Medo-Persian army took seemingly impregnable Babylon and executed King Belshazzar. With the death of Belshazzar, the golden head of the dream image -- the Babylonian Empire -- ceased to exist...Medo-Persia replaced the Babylonian Empire as dominant world power in 539 B.C.E." (Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy!, p. 51, published by WT Society)

If the "king of Babylon" "ceased to exist" in 539 BC, how can it be said that nations "serve" the king of Babylon after that year (i.e. up until 537 BC)? And how can Jehovah call to account the "king of Babylon" in 537 BC if it is already non-existent that year?

So, which of these view is correct:

A) the 70 years and the period of Exile are NOT the same:
The end of the 70 years PRECEEDED the end of the period of the Jewish exile (i.e. the 70 years ended in 539 BC and the period of exile after that year

or

B) the 70 years and the period of Exile are one and the same:
The 70 years is CO-TERMINUS with the period of Exile since the 70 years refers to the period of Exile
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Before giving any lengthy elaboration, please CATEGORICALLY state first which view you support (whether A or B). Thanks!

Answer 1

The correct answer is A



Following is a simple calculation of when Jerusalem fell, taken solely from Watchtower literature. In viewing the calculation, remember that everything goes backwards when calculating years B.C.



"Babylon fell in 539 B.C." Babylon the Great Has Fallen - God's Kingdom Rules p.184= 539 B.C.



Plus Nabonidus "On the basis of cuneiform texts he is believed to have ruled some seventeen years(556-539 B.C.E.)." Aid to Bible Understanding - Nabonidus p.1195 =17 years



Plus Labashi-Marduk-"Labashi-Marduk ... was a vicious boy, and within nine months he had his throat cut by an assassin." Babylon the Great Has Fallen - God's Kingdom Rules p.184 =1 year



Plus Neriglissar... reigned four years Babylon the Great Has Fallen - God's Kingdom Rules p.184=4years



Plus Evil-Merodach "After reigning but two years King Evil-Merodach was murdered" Babylon the Great Has Fallen - God's Kingdom Rules p.184 =2 years



Plus "Nebuchadnezzar ruled as king for 43 years" Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2 p.480=43 years



Equals start of Nebuchadnezzar's reign Calculated by adding above figures= 606 B.C.



Minus Nebuchadnezzar's 19th year 2 Kings 25:8-9 "And in the ... nineteenth year of King Neb·u·chad·nez´zar ... the servant of the king of Babylon, came to Jerusalem. And he proceeded to burn the house of Jehovah"= 19th year



Date for destruction Therefore calculated as: 587 B.C.



Watchtower publications can be used to show that the date of the destruction is 587 B.C. simply by adding the length of reigns of the Babylonian kings that they have given.



Babylon fell=539 B.C.

Calculations 17+1+4+2+43=606-19

Date of Destruction=587 B.C.



The WTS state that the 70 years is that of "desolation without an inhabitant". The Bible doesn't say that at all.

That, to me, is the KEY to the argument. They assert it without ANY proof and THE BIBLE DOESN'T SAY THAT AT ALL.

70 YEARS OF SERVITUDE OF MANY NATIONS

RATHER THAN 70 YEARS OF JUDAH’S ABSOLUTE DESOLATION

 “Here I am sending and I will take all the families of the north...I will bring them against this land

and against the inhabitants and against all these nations round about; and I will devote them to

destruction” (Jer. 25:9).

 “And [1] all this land [Judah] must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and [2]

these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon 70 years. And it must occur that [3] when 70

years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that

nation, their error, even against the land of the Chaldeans, and I will make it desolate wastes to

time indefinite” (Jer. 25:11, 12).

There is no link between ‘devastation’ and the 70 years, so clearly the 70 years does not apply to the

“land [Judah] becoming a devastated place,” but to “these nations” and “the king of Babylon.” The

Hebrew chorbah for “devastated place” does not imply total devastation without an inhabitant.

Examples are:

 “…the inhabitants of these devastated places” (Ezek. 33:24).

 “You are seeing the bad plight in which we are, how Jerusalem is devastated” (Neh. 2:17).

Jeremiah 25:18 says “just as at this day” showing that some devastation had already taken place. This

would be the kind of devastation after invading armies had marched through.

IT WAS NOT JEHOVAH’S WILL THAT THE LAND BE TOTALLY UNINHABITED

The devastation to Judah only occurred because they kept trying to throw off the Babylonian yoke

of servitude. The Jews were told by Jehovah:

 “And as for the nation that will bring its neck under the yoke of the King of Babylon and actually

serve him, I will also let it rest upon its ground...and it will certainly cultivate it and dwell in it”

(Jer. 27:11).

Jehovah promised the Jews the blessing of staying in the land if they would serve the king of Babylon:

 “Serve the king of Babylon and keep on living. Why should this city become a devastated place?”

(Jer. 27:17) and:

 “If you will without fail keep dwelling in this land, I will also build you up...” (Jer. 42:10).

Answer 2

The answer is A



The period of exile and the 70 years are not the same. The 70 years refer to the servitude of the nations of Judah, which started in 609BC when Babylon conquered the nations in the north of Judah, and ended in 539BC when Babylon was defeated.



The bible uses expressions such as " servitude will end after the 70 years" and " The land will be desolate until the 70 years are completed", but this does not mean that they started at the same time. It simply means that the end of the 70 years of servitude would also bring the end of other things connected to it which started within that period.

Answer 3

We allow scripture to interpret scripture, the crystal clear to explain the less clear. The 70 years is the same as the exile from the land (choice B), as is crystal clear at 2 Chronicles 36:20-21, which says:



"He carried off those remaining from the sword captive to Babylon, and they came to be servants to him and his sons until the royalty of Persia began to reign; to fulfill Jehovah’s word by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had paid off its sabbaths. All the days of lying desolated it kept sabbath, to fulfill seventy years."



So the purpose of the 70 years was directly in relation to the land being desolate, paying off the sabbath rests. This accords with God's promised punishment for disobedience when he first gave them that land. (Leviticus 26:27-35) Daniel shows conclusively that the 70 years ended in the beginning of the reign of Darius the Mede as the de facto king of Babylon:



"In the first year of Darius . . . of the seed of the Medes, who had been made king over the kingdom of the Chaldeans . . . I myself, Daniel, discerned by the books the number of the years concerning which the word of Jehovah had occurred to Jeremiah the prophet, for fulfilling the devastations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years." (Daniel 9:1-2) Daniel knew the appointed desolation of the land was just about fulfilled, and so he prayed for God to turn back his anger from Jerusalem at that time.

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@Deo

I appreciate your thoughtful response. I'm trying to be concise, so I'll get to the main point. You said, "Jeremiah's prophecy (Jer 25:11, 12; 29:10) is about how long the nations will be servants to Babylon, and Babylon's supremacy over the nations cannot be extended beyond 539 BC."



Jeremiah's prophecy was about how long that exile from the land would endure, not specifically how long Babylon itself would function as the world power (though the end of one followed the other closely). If you read through Jeremiah, it's easy to see that it's essentially the very fulfillment of Leviticus 26! So for 70 years while they were barred from their land, the Jews were subject to the various people that occupied the position of king of Babylon, including Darius the Mede who freed them right at the appointed time.



Daniel saw the 70 years in Jeremiah as being applied to "fulfilling the devastations of Jerusalem," *not* as fulfilling Babylon's time as the world power. At the time Daniel wrote that, Jerusalem was *still* devastated, was it not? Therefore, the 70 years could not have been "fulfilled" yet, according to his own understanding of Jeremiah.

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@Deo

Leviticus says that ALL the days of its being desolated are for the purpose of 'repaying' the sabbaths that were missed, in other words, the entire desolation is punishment for errors done *prior* to the exile. Jeremiah's emphasis is likewise on the land being devastated and "without an inhabitant" as punishment for the rampant disobedience, and he prophesies that this will last for 70 years with the Israelites captive in Babylon.



You quoted only the last part of Jeremiah 25:11, but here's just the immediate context: "And I will destroy out of them the sound of exultation and the sound of rejoicing, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of the hand mill and the light of the lamp. And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years."



The focus is on the desolation! The people will be removed from off the land to Babylon for 70 years, which they were, until they returned to it in 537 BCE. Daniel reads Jeremiah and says that the 70 years are for fulfilling 'the devastations of Jerusalem'. That is explicitly clear. And of course the Chronicler, after it's all said and done, states yet again that the land paying off its sabbaths fulfilled the 70 years.



Just a question, did you happen to read the articles in recent Watchtowers that dealt with the chronology surrounding this? You can still read the second one by downloading the Nov. 1, 2011 WT from the link below. It's on pages 22-28.

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@Deo

"Judah was only desolated AFTER it had stopped serving Babylon in fulfillment of Jer 27:7, 8."



I believe that's an untenable position given the scriptural evidence that shows Judah was devastated long before Babylon was conquered. But unfortunately, this isn't a discussion forum, and too much detail isn't being included here. If you'd like, I'd be happy to continue this discussion by email. Thanks.

Answer 4

the view that the buybull is a fiction .. pure gobbledegook NONsense !