Question:
Christians, why do (some) of you disregard some of the laws of the OT?
☆BB☆
2012-02-24 11:37:43 UTC
I recently asked a question about "Is the God of the OT the same as the God of the NT?" Suprisingly, I received a number of good answers! He is the same; He does not change from OT to NT.

This questions somewhat stems from that one that I had asked. I've noticed on this forum that there are some people who profess to be Christians, yet they claim that "some" of the laws of the OT are not applicable anymore. Ok, I can see where animal sacrifices come into play since Jesus was the sacrificial Lamb that was slain for the sins of mankind. Ok.

Sometimes I see some Christians harp on "a man shall not lie with another man," but those same Christians would also say, "Oh, tithing is an old law, so I'll give just what I want to/feel like."

Christians, is this a problem? Or am I missing something? (I wouldn't be surprised if I were missing something.)
Twenty answers:
Kate
2012-02-24 11:49:36 UTC
There is some confusion on this issue, even among Christians. The confusion arises from the fact that the NT makes it clear that we are not under the OT law...and yet, some of those laws are moral or spiritual laws that still make sense to us. So some people decide that means that we must be under SOME of the law still, just not ALL of it.



The answer is twofold:



First, we are NOT under the OT law, period. That law was part of a contractual agreement between God and the nation of Israel in which they agreed to operate under a true theocracy. No system of government like that has existed since, and we today are certainly not under an Israelite OR a theocratic government. We can still study and learn from that law, but we are not under it.



Second (now that we have established that we are not under the OT law), simply stating that someone is not under a law does not mean that every moral idea under that law was declared null. The NT clearly states that certain actions are still considered immoral, even though we live in an era of grace. Homosexuality and adultery are warned against in the NT, for example. Some people see that and then try to bring in the OT verses against these sins as further justification, but they err in doing so. They are sins, yes, but it is not by going to the OT law that we establish this. It is by understanding what the NT says about it.



Just one additional note about the nature of God. The Bible is clear that God does not change. However, he is free to change his specific dealings with man. This progressive revelation is not contrary to his nature. On the contrary, it is similar to the methods of a parent. A father himself may not change his character, but he will deal through different instructions and consequences when his son is a child, a teen, and an adult. Such is God's dealings with mankind through time.
joemoser1948
2012-02-24 11:42:57 UTC
Actually. God DOES "change" between the time he gave the Ten Commandments - his true laws, not the Rabbinical traditions that grew up trying to translate the "laws" Christ changed the requirements and clarified the INTENT of the commandments.



The writers here on "tithing" are obviously confused about what is "law" even in the OT.
2012-02-24 12:19:55 UTC
In Matthew’s record of what is commonly called the Sermon on the Mount, these words of Jesus are recorded: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished” (Matthew 5:17-18).



It is frequently argued that if Jesus did not “abolish” the law, then it must still be binding. Accordingly, such components as the Sabbath-day requirement must be operative still, along with perhaps numerous other elements of the Mosaic Law. This assumption is grounded in a misunderstanding of the words and intent of this passage. Christ did not suggest here that the binding nature of the law of Moses would remain forever in effect. Such a view would contradict everything we learn from the balance of the New Testament (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15).



Of special significance in this study is the word rendered “abolish.” It translates the Greek term kataluo, literally meaning “to loosen down.” The word is found seventeen times in the New Testament. It is used, for example, of the destruction of the Jewish temple by the Romans (Matthew 26:61; 27:40; Acts 6:14), and of the dissolving of the human body at death (2 Corinthians 5:1). The term can carry the extended meaning of “to overthrow,” i.e., “to render vain, deprive of success.” In classical Greek, it was used in connection with institutions, laws, etc., to convey the idea of “to invalidate.”



It is especially important to note how the word is used in Matthew 5:17. In this context, “abolish” is set in opposition to “fulfill.” Christ came “...not to abolish, but to fulfill.” Jesus did not come to this earth for the purpose of acting as an opponent of the law. His goal was not to prevent its fulfillment. Rather, He revered it, loved it, obeyed it, and brought it to fruition. He fulfilled the law’s prophetic utterances regarding Himself (Luke 24:44). Christ fulfilled the demands of the Mosaic law, which called for perfect obedience under threat of a “curse” (see Galatians 3:10, 13). In this sense, the law’s divine design will ever have an abiding effect. It will always accomplish the purpose for which it was given.



If, however, the law of Moses bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what He came to do. On the other hand, if the Lord did accomplish His goal, then the law was fulfilled, and it is not a binding legal institution today. Further, if the law of Moses was not fulfilled by Christ—and thus remains as a binding legal system for today—then it is not just partially binding. Rather, it is a totally compelling system. Jesus plainly said that not one “jot or tittle” (representative of the smallest markings of the Hebrew script) would pass away until all was fulfilled. Consequently, nothing of the law was to fail until it had completely accomplished its purpose. Jesus fulfilled the law. Jesus fulfilled all of the law. We cannot say that Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial system, but did not fulfill the other aspects of the law. Jesus either fulfilled all of the law, or none of it. What Jesus' death means for the sacrificial system, it also means for the other aspects of the law.



The activity of sodomy is mentioned in both the OT and the NT. Lev 18:22 "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestible", Lev 20:13 "If a man lies with a man a one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestible". This is pretty clear, is it not? Then look at 1Cor 6:9-10 says "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders, nor theives nor the greedy not drunkards, slanderers not swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. These activities are carried through from the OT to the NT are we are told that we should not engage in them. furthermore, Romans says this: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense [penalty] of their error which was meet [due]" (Rom. 1:26-27).



Paul talks of "vile affections." The word vile in this verse is Strong's #819 atimia, which means, "infamy, indignity, disgrace, dishonor, reproach, shame, vile." And so the things of which Paul is going to speak, are things that are: infamous, indignant, disgraceful, dishonorable, reproachable, shameful, and vile. Not a pretty picture; not a dissertation on godly virtue and morality.
2012-02-24 11:54:26 UTC
What you say is true and many Christians don't yet understand the "Grace"vs. "Law" concept.

there are exactly 613 Laws in the "Old Covenant" and not all of those apply to every individual. Some only apply to Priests some to Kings, Some to women ,some to men, some to virgins, some to married,some to lepers on and on. What most interpret as "Law" is the 10 Commandments and yes they apply to everyone, but all have broken them therefore we needed a Savior to deliver us from the curse of the Law. The Law was given as a schoolmaster.

Galatians 3;23: But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24: Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25: But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26: For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

The "Law" only teaches that we as fallen creatures can't obtain to the righteousness of God by our own human efforts.

Romans 3:21: But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22: Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24: Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

When Jesus Christ sends His Spirit to live in us and we become "Born Again" by the Spirit of God, He changes us and it is through His power that we become partakers of His Divine nature.

2 Peter 1: 3: According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust

Romans 3,:31: Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

So it is that by the power of God under the new Covenant that we resist sin and grow stronger in Him each day

2 Corinthians 5:17: Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Your Word is a light to my roadway
2012-02-24 11:48:55 UTC
FOR THE BILLIONTH TIME, Christians are not under the Mosaic Law given to the Jews which was never intended for Gentiles. And the commandment on homosexuality is repeated in the NT in the Book of Romans, chapter 1 and a couple of other places.
christopher
2012-02-24 11:53:54 UTC
I think the OT laws aren't for Christians. Instead it is our faith in Christ that governs our lives.



Gal 2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Hogie
2012-02-25 06:29:53 UTC
Christians are not a party to the old "covenant" law. Covenants have parties to them, and the parties to that old covenant were God and the Israelites.



Regarding homosexuality, it was established as a sin long before that old covenant, and was reiterated as a sin after the old covenant ended (Rom.1).



.
Rick
2012-02-24 12:39:13 UTC
There are two sets of laws, the commandments of Noah and the Law of Moses. Only the children of Israel have to keep the Law of Moses.



Male homosexual behaviour is prohibited in both sets of laws.
?
2012-02-24 11:41:41 UTC
The New Testament specifically mentions certain sins and laws that are still to be considered as such.



Homosexuality being a prime example, but also adultery, greed etc.



Also, certain laws are specifically "repealed" such as the dietary laws etc.



And as you rightly observe, the sacrifial laws are clearly obsolete.
Professor Know It All
2012-02-24 11:48:17 UTC
Wow, Austin admits the Bible is wrong? usually they say things like, "look God was commanding THOSE people to stone their brides to death at their father's doorstep, and those people to kill apostates, he's not commanding you to. So there is no ethical conflict."



But Austin seems to thinks the New Testament is much better and free from the barbarisms of the OT, but he's wrong. The NT still condones slavery, still has exhortations to kill people who don't accept Jesus, still assumes that the billions of people God put in India and China deserve to burn in hell for all eternity for the crime of never being exposed to Christianity, and anyone who has been exposed but is unconvinced by the dearth of supporting evidence for Christ's divinity. Just to name a few of the problems...
I know everything
2012-02-24 11:40:02 UTC
Jesus replaces the law of the OT, it's true - but that doesn't mean the OT is not relevant. It contains a vast amount of wisdom which should not be neglected.
?
2012-02-24 11:43:09 UTC
as none of them apply to you why are you so concerned?...... some "laws" are void.... some apply only to The Nation of Israel.... some are priestly laws.... there are no priests in The True Church...... and some apply to all of man-kind....... but... in any case..... The Word and Will of God for man-kind is not to be imposed upon any one not already in willing submission to God.......... so don't worry your little head about it... just go on about your life here on earth.... and enjoy it while you can......
?
2012-02-24 11:40:55 UTC
Tithing is an old law, but many religions that claim to follow the Bible but do not, use this to try and get more money out of their parishioners.
2012-02-24 11:40:15 UTC
Because they're hypocrites with selective reasoning, and they only obey god, when it's aligned to what they want.



Ask a religious women if she's okay being sold into slavery by her father, and all of a sudden she gets all b'tchy... Ask her if gay men are entitled to civil rights, and she'll talk herself blue in the face with her bigoted opinions.



Some people just need a big hard smack in the face so they'll stfu.
2012-02-24 11:40:38 UTC
It's called cherry picking. They pick bits and pieces that they want.



Like picking parts that allow them to be bigoted against people that they already have prejudice against while ignoring the laws telling them not to eat or wear certain things.



Which is good actually, otherwise they'd all be stoning each other for working on the Sabbath and selling people off to slavery.
neil m
2012-02-24 11:42:02 UTC
You are missing the most important thing: these are books written by misogynistic old men who wanted to expand their power by persuading others to accept their beliefs.



You are just one in a long line of people who have been duped. Instead of looking in an old book, open your eyes to the wonders of the world and find the true God in nature.
2012-02-24 11:39:00 UTC
because they are not relevant to modern society any more. the new testament corrects the old one and thats what we follow.
2012-02-24 11:43:42 UTC
tithe what? .. money? .. explain money to me and i'll explain what i tithe ...
?
2012-02-24 11:40:09 UTC
One of the joys of being"Christian" is that you can interpret the bible any way you need it.
bonzo the tap dancing chimp
2012-02-24 11:39:46 UTC
the OT is so insane that even most believers are embarrased by it


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