Question:
How come the Catholic Church now never teaches about hell and purgatory?
Teresa P
2008-06-01 19:09:18 UTC
Since the Second Vatican Council, the Catholic Church has become very lax, modernized, and liberal. When you go to any Novus Ordo Mass, you never hear the priest preaching about hell, purgatory, praying the holy rosary, induglences, the Real Presence, avoiding the occasions of sin, going to confession, etc. Instead, they preach that everyone goes to heaven and that all religions are good. If you were to attend a Traditional Latin Mass, such as the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX), they preach true Catholic doctrine. What happened in the Second Vatican Council that made the church the way it is now?
23 answers:
imacatholic2
2008-06-01 21:28:36 UTC
Never say never.



The Catholic Church does not teach a lot on hell mostly because of spiritual maturity.



There are six levels of spiritual maturity:

+ Information (lowest)

+ Knowledge

+ Intelligence

+ Understanding

+ Wisdom

+ Transformation (highest)



Some Christians never progress past the legalism of the stages of Information and Knowledge. These stages are concerned about punishment and hell.



Many others progress much further where true relationship with God and assurance of heaven means that one never even has to worry about hell. We live rightly because we want to be like Christ and not because we are afraid of hell.



As Paul encourages in Hebrews 6:1, "Therefore, let us leave behind the basic teaching about Christ and advance to maturity."



I have heard homilies that teach about:

+ Purgatory

+ Praying the rosary

+ The Real Presence

+ Avoiding the occasions of sin

+ Going to confession



By the way, did Archbishop Lefebvre (the founder of SSPX) ever return to communion with the Pope and the Catholic Church after his excommunication?



===========================================



From the Office of the Congregation for Bishops, 1 July 1988.



Monsignor Marcel Lefebvre, Archbishop-Bishop Emeritus of Tulle, notwithstanding the formal canonical warning of 17 June last and the repeated appeals to desist from his intention, has performed a schismatical act by the episcopal consecration of four priests, without pontifical mandate and contrary to the will of the Supreme Pontiff, and has therefore incurred the penalty envisaged by Canon 1364, paragraph 1, and canon 1382 of the Code of Canon Law.



Having taken account of all the juridical effects, I declare that the above-mentioned Monsignor Marcel Lefebvre, and Bernard Pellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Galarreta have incurred ipso facto excommunication latae sententiae reserved to the Apostolic See.



Moreover, I declare that Monsignor Antonio de Castro Mayer, Bishop emeritus of Campos, since he took part directly in the liturgical celebration as co-consecrator and adhered publicly to the schismatical act, has incurred excommunication latae sententiae as envisaged by canon 1364, paragraph 1.



The priests and faithful are warned not to support the schism of Monsignor Lefebvre, otherwise they shall incur ipso facto the very grave penalty of excommunication.



From the Office of the Congregation for Bishops, 1 July 1988.



--BERNARDINUS Card. GANTIN

Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops



http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/l-excomm.htm



============================================



With love in Christ.
steelysama
2008-06-01 19:19:04 UTC
I understand your concern. There are some parishes and even some Bishops who are modernist or liberal. However, this is not because of the Second Vatican Council. Rather, it is because of the attitudes of society in general after the 1960's which influenced individuals in the Church. These modernist ideas are very much against what Vatican II established.



I have been to problematic parishes, but I have also been to faithful parishes where the full teaching of the Church is made clear. Thankfully, with the hard work of Pope John-Paul II and Pope Benedict the XVI, more and more parishes are becoming faithful in providing for the spiritual education of their congregations.



As to the TLM vs. the Novus Ordo, it is not the Mass which makes the difference. It is simply that the only people who want to do the TLM tend to be very orthodox. So it creates an illusion that the TLM is better. In actuality, there are many very orthodox Priests who say the Novus Ordo.



SSPX is a schismatic group and Catholics should stay away from them. Thankfully, the Holy Father has recently issued a Motu Propio which established Traditional Latin Mass wherever the faithful petition to have them in a reasonable number. So the Latin Mass is on the rise all over :)



I would suggest that you take a look at the Vatican website and see what the current Pope has been saying. He is a very serious and traditional man.
Veritatum17
2008-06-02 07:40:46 UTC
I think we've always been liberal in a way. Ours were the social programs (starting with the hospitium in the 5th century), the schools, the universities, the hospitals, the diplomatic corps. Ours was the rejection of a life of brutality and violence. Today, we remain liberal in the sense of rejecting the partisanship of modern life, fighting the culture of death and promiscuity, and embracing the Christ of the Beatitudes and the Lord of the Commandments.



Vatican II made the Church more "modern" in the sense of looking at what we had not questioned for years because it was "tradition" and trying to pick out what was "Tradition" in there - the teachings of the Apostles and early fathers - and what was just ecclesial. Much of the latter was jettisoned or made less impactful because it was getting in the way of some.



Latin Mass is wonderful, but vernacular Mass is more interactive. Both edify, but when given a choice Catholics seek what is most edifying to them personally.



While the rosary is a beautiful meditation, not all Catholics find it useful or meaningful to them. I personally love the Litany of the Holy Name - it calls to mind the life of Jesus and the prophecies of Him.



I'd disagree with you on the Real Presence - consider the importance that Adoration has been given in recent years, both by JP2 and Benedict. Consider that our evangelical brethren have often begun "prayer rooms" where a vigil is kept every hour by one of the faithful in their congregation, and how much it resembles our adoration in the idea of a vigilant and perpetual place of worship.



Consider also that confession is spreading beyond the doors of the Church - our beloved orders have begun renting space in shopping malls to hear confession of any who wish to come and seek forgiveness.



I think that purgatory and indulgences aren't taught as much because these remain question marks in some aspect. Induglences created centuries of controversy, but occupy only two paragraphs in the Catechism. Purgatory, likewise, is an important theological construct but about which we can exercise little other than prayers for the dead. Instead, the Church has embraced the call to action, to live the faith that is preached, and seeks charity for the living as a greater spiritual good than prayers for the deceased.



The "all religions are good" has never been taught by the Church, except in misunderstanding. It is a humble step to state that we see God's plan of salvation as including our forebears in faith, Abraham's children the Jews, and the more recent cousins in faith, Abraham's children the Muslims. And this is a teaching I prefer far more to the exclusivity of "us alone", an exclusivity that has lead to violence and darkness.



If you wish to find Truth, turn to Scripture. If you wish to find True Catholic Teaching, turn to the Early Fathers, how they lived the Scripture that they were taught.



Either way, see you at the Feast.
2016-03-13 11:03:00 UTC
lol I love it when someone asks a Catholic for an explanation and Biblical defense of what they believe. And having survived my very first semester with a Sister as my Theology Professor, I now know why one single spaced page packed with Scripture is considered a "short answer." John 21:25 says that if the Catholics were to write down everything they know, the whole world wouldn't be big enough to contain all the books. Then some wise guy invented the computer...
Marysia
2008-06-01 19:22:55 UTC
HUH?! what church do you go to? the priests don't often speak of fire and brimstone but when the readings are about heaven, hell, repentance, etc they most certainly should. the Rosary is NEVER a part of the mass and has never been. some parishes have people who stay after or come prior but it's not mandatory. indulgences are hooey -- y ou can not put repentance for your sins -- YOU have to repent. where on earth to you celebrate mass? we have Eucharistic adoration in fact we have a children's Eucharistic adoration once a month and the kids are responsible for round the clock prayers. we even had a priest who told people - if they were not for pro life - they needed to find another pew.....



the sspx are not in communion with the Rcc as it was founded by a man and does not follow apostolic succession.

brothers, sisters, and oblates, and by affiliation, Third Order members".[1]

It was founded in 1970 by the French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. Since 1988 it has been in a state of dispute with the Holy See, which in that same year stated that Archbishop Lefebvre incurred automatic excommunication by consecrating four SSPX members as bishops against the expressed will of the Pope and after a canonical warning that he would be excommunicated for doing so.
Anastasia
2008-06-01 19:16:20 UTC
Have you ever been to Mass, or do you just believe what Jack Chick and others of his ilk tell you? Because you are coming off as woefully ignorant.



Mass is a ritual, in which Catholics praise the miracle of Jesus, ask that the saints and Mary pray for them and give praise to god.



Teachings of Purgatory, which you fundies don't believe in and Hell are taught not in mass, but in Catechism class. Trust me, you need to learn all those things before taking your first communion or being confirmed. Mass has always been mass, the only difference is, since Vatican II, it's in the native language of your country instead of Latin. There was NO fire and brimstone preaching from the pulpit about Hell and Purgatory before Vatican II either.



You have been misinformed.
sparki777
2008-06-02 10:01:16 UTC
I think it must depend on the diocese, because hell, purgatory, the Rosary, the Real Presence, etc., etc. are all preached regularly in all the parishes I've ever been to where I live. My own parish has a big ministry in confessions -- confessions daily and three times on Saturday, and there's always a line.
Danny H
2008-06-02 14:33:25 UTC
I was confirmed Catholic 3 years ago, and I was taught everything you mentioned: Purgatory, Hell, the Rosary, the Real Presence (which converted me), Confession, everything. I've even heard more homilies than I can count about confession, the Eucharist, prayer, Hell, and so forth.



God bless.
Jane Marple
2008-06-01 19:16:12 UTC
Second Vatican Council of 1962-1965



The rite of the Mass is to be revised in such a way that the intrinsic nature and purpose of its several parts, as also the connection between them, may be more clearly manifested, and that devout and active participation by the faithful may be more easily achieved.



For this purpose the rites are to be simplified, due care being taken to preserve their substance; elements which, with the passage of time, came to be duplicated, or were added with but little advantage, are now to be discarded; other elements which have suffered injury through accidents of history are now to be restored to the vigor which they had in the days of the holy Fathers, as may seem useful or necessary. A greater use of the Scriptures should be made at Mass, and that vernacular languages should be more widely employed.
If It's Too Loud...
2008-06-01 19:17:39 UTC
Really? That's news to me. I was raised Catholic after Vatican II and I learned all about hell, purgatory, the rosary, confession, etc. "Indulgences" don't exist any more. If you were to attend a Traditional Latin Mass, the average Joe wouldn't understand what the priest was saying. Vatican II helped bring the Mass to the people, in a manner of speaking.
jordsvin1313
2008-06-01 19:20:01 UTC
All religions change over time. For centuries after the Reformation, Catholicism had a very withdrawn, fortress mentality. With that background, when change came, as it inevitably had to, it came in a flood and proved impossible to control. Any religion is affected by the cultures of which it is a part. Catholicism put it off as long as it could. If it had been more open all along, maybe there would not have been this huge disruption. I'm surprised you asked, though. You seem to be very content with the SSPX group; and maybe I'm not the best source of info, being an avowed Pagan and all that.
Karenita
2008-06-01 19:17:28 UTC
the Catholic Church has always taught about Hell and Purgatory. It has never changed from that.
2008-06-01 19:16:09 UTC
Not necessarily. Some NO parishes do preach on those things, and I've never heard once from any one of them that all religions are equal or that all people go to heaven, neither at an NO mass or a TLM. I agree that VII went too far, but the Church hasn't fallen -that- far.
daljack -a girl
2008-06-01 19:14:58 UTC
You must not be in the right place because this is not the message I hear.....especially with the new Pope.



They are still strongly against homosexuality, abortion.....that doesn't sound modern or liberal to me.



Priests now get their message from the Gospel on Sundays....and the Gospel comes from the New Testament....so you're not going to hear about purgatory there.



However if you go to Bible study you will hear what you say is now missing.
δฬєєԏเᏋ ˙·٠•●♥ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ ♥●•٠·˙
2008-06-01 19:20:19 UTC
I Concur with Katerina! and yes they do teach about this at mass and in the Catholic Catechism for ALL Catholics to see as well as in Classes!
Mr. John
2008-06-01 19:20:05 UTC
Catholic church has never been a true church.



From the beginning it's made up of biblical scriptures mixed with man made dogma. Spirituality mixed with politics.



That's why their doctrines are always changing because it is not based all in solid and absolute biblical truth.
Elsie Treize
2008-06-01 19:21:13 UTC
Pope Jean Paul ll said that there is no actual Hell. Hell is a condition of the mind, here on Earth.
2008-06-01 19:16:53 UTC
Now many people can easily get access to the Bible and to other Holy Books to find the way of salvation for themselves.

The preaching of men will become more and more outdated.



GU-UN
2008-06-01 19:15:52 UTC
Liberal Catholics interpreted Vatican II as they wished not as it was written. It all depends on what church you go to. Its not universal.
2008-06-01 19:17:52 UTC
political correctness and thishttp://nationaldirectfunding.com/images/100_dollar_bill%20front%20and%20back.jpg



cant fool people any longer with that mythical place purgatory.

they think they can work their way to heaven.

.........just hilarious.................
*
2008-06-01 19:14:02 UTC
Because they want to keep the money flowing...hell and purgatory scares some people, so don't mention it and the business will keep going...
2008-06-01 19:18:11 UTC
because its rationally incompatible with a merciful god.
2008-06-01 19:22:05 UTC
the 1,955 year of the church age is over. God talks about it in the scriptures, He says judgment starts in the house of God. When you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place those in Judea flee to the mountains. Also he anticipates the defective church in revelation the 7 churches. The bible also explains the elect who he plans to save are the churches the temple God is building.

The Beginning of the Church Age:

A few days after Christ’s ascension into heaven, the great divine organization that was to represent the kingdom of God for the next 1,955 years had its beginning.

On Pentecost day in A.D. 33, about 3,000 people were saved (Acts 2). Those who were saved that day came from many different nations. This grand event marked the beginning of the church age. It was during this part of the beginning of the church age that much detail is given concerning missionaries being sent into countries that we now know as Turkey, Greece, and Italy. The church age was set forth by God as a divine plan by which God would send the Gospel into the entire world. Never again would the Jewish synagogues, the city of Jerusalem, the nation of Israel, or the temple in Jerusalem externally represent the kingdom of God. The local congregations that would be formed throughout the world would externally represent the kingdom of God. Therefore, spiritually, the Bible very frequently calls the local congregations “Jerusalem,” “the temple,” “Zion,” “Israel,” “Judah,” “Judea,” etc.

This divine organization, which eventually consisted of churches located all over the world, was carefully designed by God. And God placed strict rules in His law book, the Bible, that governed the selection of elders and deacons (I Timothy 3). Women were not to teach or have authority in the congregations. The Old Testament ceremonial laws, which were to be observed by the nation of Israel, were no longer to be observed. Instead, two new ceremonial laws were introduced to assist in teaching the nature of the Gospel. These were water baptism and the Lord’s Supper. A law concerning excommunication from church membership was set forth (I Corinthians 5). Sunday was appointed by God as the Sunday Sabbath day, which was to be used for all kinds of spiritual activity. Each local congregation that would be established throughout the world was to be governed by the laws set forth in the Bible.

The great task given to these God-ordained congregations was to send the Gospel throughout the whole world. So, already, as we have noted, before the Bible was even finished, missionaries were being sent forth into neighboring nations (Acts 13).

About A.D. 95, God completed the writing of the Bible, and no further information has come from God describing the actual progress of the church in the world as an historical account. However, long before the church age began, God prophesied how the church age would spiritually develop.

One would expect that with the auspicious beginning of the church age on Pentecost in A.D. 33, when about 3,000 were saved in one day (Acts 2), that the development of the church age would be a notable success story. However, the Bible prophesied that this was not God’s plan. We sadly learn from the Bible that even before God finished writing the Bible (about A.D. 95), already there was mounting evidence that the church age was not going to be a huge success story.

The Bible Anticipates a Defective Church:

In Revelation 2 and Revelation 3, God tells us about the spiritual condition of seven typical churches. These conditions existed about 30 years after these churches had been formed. For example, the church at Ephesus had lost its first love (Revelation 2:4-5). Remember, to love God is to obey His commandments (John 14:21-23). Therefore, God threatened to remove their candlestick, which represents the light of the Gospel, because they were no longer obedient to God’s laws. This church would no longer be used by God to send the Gospel into the world.

In Galatians 1:2-9, the Bible reports that already, before the Bible was completed, the churches of Galatia had begun to follow a gospel that was not the Gospel of the Bible. In Revelation 2:13, the Bible reports that the church at Pergamos was already a church in which, to some extent, Satan was ruling. This verse makes reference to Satan’s “seat.” In the Bible, the word “seat,” in this kind of context, refers to ruling or reigning. And in Revelation 3:1-4, the Bible reports that the church at Sardis was already a dead church, even though it had a few true believers left within it.

In Matthew 13:24-30, the Bible records the parable of the wheat and the tares. The wheat represented true believers in the churches. The tares represented unbelievers who gave every evidence of being true believers, so much so that only at the end of the church age would God provide the means by which the wheat could be separated from the tares. This meant that all through the church age, there would be tares, those who were still slaves of Satan, who would be very active in the churches. Thus, through them, Satan could rule in the churches even though officially, Christ was the ruler of the churches.

Already in Isaiah 9:1-4, God prophesied that the church age would not be a great success story. There we read:

Nevertheless the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations. The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined. Thou hast multiplied the nation, and not increased the joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, and as men rejoice when they divide the spoil. For thou hast broken the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, as in the day of Midian.

In these verses, God speaks of the light shining on the land beyond Jordan as “Galilee of the nations” (see also Matthew 4:15-16). That is, all the nations of the world were to be under the light of the Gospel. That light, of course, is the Lord Jesus, who is the light of the world (John 1:7-10).

Because the light of the Gospel was to shine throughout the world, a great change in God’s Gospel program would occur in that the spiritual darkness of the world would be penetrated by this light (Isaiah 9:2). It would be a light that would bring into existence, throughout the world, a great company of people who would externally appear to have become true believers in Christ, as Isaiah 9:3 declares, “Thou hast multiplied the nation.” In other words, the external size of the kingdom of God that would be developed all over the world would be great. However, in the same verse, God prophesies that He has not increased the joy of harvest. The joy of harvest is the joy that comes when a person has been given eternal life so that he has become a true believer (Luke 15:10). If the joy of harvest is lacking, it can only mean that the harvest of true believers is very small. The fact is, as we are noting, this sad anticipation of the lack of a great harvest of people being saved and coming into the kingdom of God is prophesied in many places in the Bible.

In addition to all the Biblical references we have already noted, we read in Isaiah 5 that God portrays the church age as a vineyard that has been carefully and lovingly planted by God Himself. But this vineyard did not produce good fruit. It produced wild grapes. Spiritually, wild grapes identify with those who have designed their own gospel instead of meticulously following the Gospel of the Bible. Later on in this study, we will see that it was God’s plan that because of this wickedness, God eventually would destroy the vineyard.

It should be noted that in many chapters of the books of Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel, etc., God indicates His intense anger against the nations of Israel and Judah because of their continuous wickedness. Indeed, finally, they were destroyed. Israel was destroyed in 709 B.C. by the Assyrians, and Judah in 587 B.C. by the Babylonians.

God used Israel and Judah, which in their day externally represented the kingdom of God, as examples of all the local churches that have externally represented the kingdom of God throughout the time of the church age. As we study these Old Testament books of the Bible, we are actually reading what God has anticipated for the church age, and more particularly, for the end of the church age.



Thus, God is teaching that churches were to be established all over the world throughout the church age, giving the appearance that the church age was enormously successful. But in reality, only a remnant, a small part of the whole in the churches, would actually become saved, that is, actually become true believers.

This same thought is set forth in Romans 9:27, where God quotes from Isaiah 10:22-23.

Romans 9:27: Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Isaiah 10:22-23: For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness. For the Lord GOD of hosts shall make a consumption, even determined, in the midst of all the land.

The Problem of Satan within the Churches:

One very big reason for the lack of spiritual success in the church age was the problem of Satan. At the time of the cross, Satan was given a death blow. He was banished from heaven (Revelation 12:7-11), and he was bound so that he could not deceive the nations during the complete period of the church age, which was symbolically described as a period of 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). The 1,000 years must be un


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