What would convince you (see below, Part 4 of 4)?

Question

Now...suppose I came to you and said I had irrefutable proof that the entire Bible was fiction -- invented from wholecloth as a means to power and control over the masses, and that its authors never once had any contact with or belief in the God described therein.

What evidence would you require in order to be convinced that I was right, and that the Bible was a complete fabrication? Or at the very least, that we as a species need to question the claims it makes much more deeply than we have up til now? (And for those who already have doubts: what would you consider sufficient proof to convince any other reasonable person that the Bible was fictitious and was not believed in even by its writers?)

(This is Part 4 of a four-part thought experiment, with the other three parts here:


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090803055259AA2Fi34&r=w

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AixPYNjESeqW_TZCTPDGLGPwDH1G;_ylv=3?qid=20090803061209AA9dyiO

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ark7ZxcVs2nuKhabI8K5wsLwDH1G;_ylv=3?qid=20090803063510AA5ZuQ6 )

Answer 1

Well, if you say so. You haven't steered me wrong yet. Well, there was that hot tip on God'sOwnPony in the fourth race at Acqueduct last week that didn't pan out but that could have happened to anybody. Keep those hot tips coming, Rev!

Answer 2

Whether you found this proof or not, we know that forgeries or documents can be duplicated or fabricated. ( As with bones, simulated to appear to be millions of years old.) How do you explain the unknown.? The paranormal, sightings of ghosts or demons or beings on earth which have created so much phenomenon.? Sorcery, witchcraft and the elements that have been predicted to occur here on earth, like the way the world has become and the signs of the times happening on a scale obvious to the observer? And don't take it to mental health, because on more than one occasion things have occurred that are unexplainable and there have been more than one eye witness and many witnesses or informed individuals that are in their right minds, so don't go there.

I guess what I am saying is that design some how over powers any other explanation and that goes without saying and with or without scripture to back it up. If the Bible was never written, I am sure that it would have been passed down some other way. I think because it was done that way is sufficient proof that man can't be trusted alone, or without God.

Answer 3

I don't think I would believe that. It seems to me that at least one of the authors of the bible had some belief in God. Humans understanding of the Universe was very limited at that time and God was used as an explanation for many things. So it would have taken a fairly strong character to not believe in God at all. Although I'd agree that contact with God is very unlikely, I'd still suggest that some of these authors actually believed they were having contact with God.

Answer 4

I already believe the Bible to be a work of fiction.



The Old Testament is filled with stories that do not line up with the recordings of other civilizations. Add to this the fact that even the Christians do not follow the OT, with its misogyny, war-mongering, and blood sacrifices, and it's obvious how the OT is not factual.



With the New Testament, my first observation was the introduction of eternal burning hell. This is not from the OT. (A little research makes this very evident.) Paul. a Roman, wrote the earliest NT books. The gospels came a bit later. Not one eyewitness among them. Then these books were picked and chosen from several others by other men (Coucils of Nicea) with their own agendas and corruptions. Why should I accept the NT as fact given this information? (Not to mention how preposterous the whole concept is.)



I'm sure you had some kind of goal with your four-part experiment. Care to share?

Answer 5

This one is a lot like the last. You'd have to explain away the counter evidence of archeology and historical scholarship. Proving that the writers themselves didn't believe what they said would be almost impossible, wouldn't it? Are you going to produce affidavits from them all? Of course we need to think critically about the bible, just as we do about any other historical document. But you've jumped the starting gate. Before we can think critically about the bible, we need to determine for ourselves whether or not God exists. The bible assumes this, but does not prove it.



peace

Answer 6

First off, I don't think the Bible is singularly coherent enough to be the work of a small group of people seeking control (and so, neither do I believe it is the work of a single deity either).



It reads like a collection of literature made by men who sometimes sought to "reveal" what their contemplations about the Divine World were to a larger audience (and they had a sincere belief that the Divine World was real and could be interacted with while in this life), while at other times they took issues of contention within their communties and invented "rules" that supported the status quo and bolstered the enforcement of those "laws" with the claim that "God" had ordered it so (including the butchering of non-combatants at odds with their tribe/tribes).



I think the loose-fit editing has made for some incredibly imaginative interpretations, resulting in several thousand franchises in Christianity alone, though the most damaging (I admit this is debatable) is the insistance that Mankind must be willing to be intellectually dishonest enough to set aside ANY AND ALL reservations about the book's authorship and adopt a sycophantic relationship with this 2000 year old tome - this insistance on excepting something as highly suspect as "God's authorship" for the Bible creates human beings that never develop the personal skills it takes to be realistic and reasonable about Life with a capital "L". In part, these people are the ones who demand their intolerances and bigotries be validated into the laws of their communities, insisting they be allowed to end discussion about the concept of Justice by holding up a text written FOR A PEOPLE who lived thousands of years ago. These people develop unrealistic justifcations for their belief system, insisting they are "in contact" with God (with little or no proof), and that we others "just don't understand" because we are self-reflective enough to see through fear tactics and refuse to be so dishonest in the face of such pessimism.



Each theist - whether he or she is willing to admit it - lives the fallacy of Pascal's Wager everyday, only it has become so splintered a religion that they attack non-believers and believers in alternate interpretations with equal enthusiasm (revealed several times a day on this very forum)...these people always have a choice as to how they will manifest their religion in their lives; through a personal spirituality that leads them to competant, ethical judgments about their lives, or a group superstition, that leads them into a dark confusion that they insist is light (a "light" that shines ONLY on them and theirs) because their entire point of reference is so warped and damaged due to an inability to be self-reflective.

Answer 7

An honest person would examine all the evidence presented regarding the Bible. The problem for Bible "refuters" is that the "irrefutable proof" against the Bible has NEVER been demonstrated. Even in this question it is a "hypothetical" question. Why not present the evidence here and now? People have been taking shots at the Bible for 3000 years with little effect.



Most of the writers of the New Testament were killed for their convictions. It is difficult to find someone who will die for a right/just cause. Why would they willingly die for a lie if they fabricated the Bible?

Answer 8

"invented from wholecloth as a means to power and control over the masses"



That part I'd require some historical evidence for, especially when many stories of the Bible mirror other religious stories from different cultures. You'd have to do a lot to convince me that the Bible were not simply a collection and adaptation of the oral tradition, and instead a book written and compiled to control people.

Answer 9

there may well be some thrilling issues that must be accomplished in this way of subject, yet i'm able to think of of one preliminary try that would convince me that this is the case for no less than 1 individual: A try the place you reveal a healthful and complete of existence existence with none nutrition and water for longer than any human physique could sustain. this era of time could must be something like a twelve months in controlled situations the place you haven't any longer any get entry to to any nutrition whatsoever.

Answer 10

First you would have to tell me why the bible is so very accurate concerning a LOT of historical evidence that scientists found no record of at first, then later was found to be true. Secondly, you'd have to give me other reasons for why--when I apply the bible to my life--the evidence shows me that the outcomes the bible tells me about--are true. You'd have to explain to me how man came to be--and the universe--during the unexplainable 3 seconds before the big bang happened. You'd have to explain to me why man-kind is selfish, and a lot are corrupt--seeing as how science describes them as just animals--you can not describe animals as corrupt. Also, you'd have to give me evidence of how you know--beyond a shadow of a doubt that the bible isn't as it states to be--because now that you've made a theory that the bible is false--you've also taken on the responsibility of proving that there is no God.



Edit:

I also find the answers to your questions very interesting. Concerning your scientific questions, everyone is very skeptical to what you are proposing. However, concerning your one religious question, they merely agree with you. Which goes to say that, just because they believe what you are saying--or want to believe what you are saying, they aren't asking for proof of what you are saying. I find that very interesting considering if you believe in science you have to obtain evidence for all theories--physical and religious a-like--no matter how strange they sound...interesting experiment...

Answer 11

I'd ask you to show me the proof you have. I'd at least hear you out.

I have proof to the contrary that works in my life. I understand that what I have may not work in your life. I have a personal relationship with the Author. If the things of God could be explained away or otherwise pigeonholed so as to fit into man's logic and finite sense of reasoning, they would cease to be divine.

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Answer 12

Evidence i would require are:-



Show me the inconsistencies of the FACTS in Bible. If the writers was in contact of the subject, the story should be consistence and not conflicted one another.



There should not be any discrepancies between any writers of the same or different era (between new, old testament and letters of Bibble). Noble, religious and people who deliver God commandments should be responsible to bring the truth and do not change the truth, commandments or facts that God teach/brought. It should be the same till the end of the world.



God should know what he created. Thus show me proves that God is wrong in his story/facts of this world, history, science or future in the Bible.



:)

Answer 13

The problem with this question is that modern ideas of fiction and non-fiction are anachronistic when applied to ancient literature: At that time there was no such clear distinction, invention was always included side by side with fact.

Answer 14

While I agree that Satan has in fact corrupted organized religion. In fact God warns of that.



I have to do my own homework not just take the excepted version of the bible as the truth. God also encourages those who don't just say "oh, ok" but actually check and double check. He does not require that we swallow whole the entire bible. He asks very little from us actually.

Nothing that anyone says could ever turn me away from my God, he is the God of Moses and the God of Abraham. I love and trust in him in every way I can.

Answer 15

The evidence is already there, they still won't listen.. The only way they would believe that the bible was fiction is if their god came down showed them evidence that it was actually real and that he wrote it himself. Then they would see actual evidence and proof and turn the other way screaming that the bible is fake!

Answer 16

I resort to my previous answers.



You would have to prove to me that my spirit was broken, a very difficult task.



You would have to convince me I needed oxygen to live, after brainwashing me that it was not needed.



You would need to make falsifiable the Moon Hoax theory, in the face of my constant removal of it to another abstraction of unfalsifiability.

Answer 17

You don't seem to understand that the changes that transform someone when they accept God are irrefutable - your entire and spirit are transformed - we don't see the world the same any more, and it is clear it is from God... so, no, you can't tell a believer that the Bible is fiction, they have conviction inside of it's truth and dynamics every day.



Our lives and spirits are changed, to say God isn't real would be like saying I haven't breathed in the last hour...

Answer 18

If my dead aunt, Milly, riding a lawnmower with wings, and dressed in flame-retardant jumpsuit and a golden halo, was circling our house singing Holy Holy Holy.

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Answer 19

NEVER!!



I have an authentic Jesus Christ toenail, handed down as a sacred relic from one generation of NiceGuys to the next.

I keep it in a shiney box.

I'll let you see it for a dollar.

Answer 20

Isaiah 40:8 The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever.

Answer 21

I would patiently listen to what you had to say. I don't see why not.

Answer 22

I already agreed with you anyway.

Answer 23

It is humanity's 1st attempt in explaining things. Most of which has been upgraded thanks to science.

Answer 24

Just who are you trying soo hard to convince? Yourself maybe.