question to athiest about jesus?

Question

Historically there was a jesus, his divinity is what most qestion. If jesus wasnt really god, how and why did christianity develop after he was crucified?

Answer 1

because he said he was divine.



but historically, there is just as much evidence that jesus was the leader of a jewish mushroom cult as there is for his divinity.



in fact it makes more sense that he was the leader of a mushroom cult. jesus got high as balls and claimed to be god (i've done the same thing on shrooms before). upon entering jerusalem for the passover, the roman empire had him arrested for sedition, which was punishable by death, and executed him.



the historical pontius pilate, like most roman prefects, was a former soldier...i highly doubt he would have been willing to sit down and chat with a man who was undermining caesar's authority.

Answer 2

Historically Jesus probably existed, but this is hardly a certainty.



How did Christianity develop? Probably in a very similar manner to the cargo cults. People are pretty gullible, and this is especially pronounced the less educated they are. Why do any cults develop? Look at Scientology, Mormonism, Aum Shinrikyo and all the other more modern "cults." All Christianity is is a cult that is very popular. It probably would have died out a long time ago if it hadn't been adopted by the Roman Empire. With official backing by the government, it was spread at the tip of a spear through military conquest.

Answer 3

There were a number of messiahs around at that time possibly due to the Roman occupation making some young Jews try hit back in some way and of course the Jews were and still are waiting for messiah. It was when Paul decided to take up and promote what was a minor Jewish cult that things began to take off. When he decided to open the cult up to non-Jews it became a separate religion. Of course as with all religions it need its stories of miracles and divine evidence for it's founder which they took from other religions around at the time. Death and Resurrection 3 days later is a very common idea and based at easter just as the new crops start to grow. The virgin birth idea is also quite common. All that stuff about the stable and the light in the east etc was made up many years after the crucifixion was supposed to have happened. I think it is fair to say that it was Paul rather than Jesus who really founded Christianity as a world religion

Answer 4

As a Pagan and a professional historian, I'd like to offer an answer, as well.



I don't know that a "majority of historians" accept the existence of Jesus. I'd challenge you to source that statement.



However, I will say this - There is absolutely no contemporary documentary evidence to show Jesus ever lived. Now, that does not mean he could not have, but rather, that there's no historical evidence he did.



You ask how, if Jesus didn't exist and was not divine, the "Cult of Christ" could have grown and prospered. The answer to the question is really quite simple. First, it grew primarily among Gentiles, rather than Jews as a faith which offered wonderful claims of a afterlife free from suffering for the underclasses. That's an attractive advertizing claim. It spread and prospered, moreover, because of the intercomunications and physical and social mobility of the Roman Empire. It was carried into Europe and forced onto the Pagan Europeans by roman military might, and was carried into the New World and forced onto Native Peoples by Spanish, Portugese, French and English military might.



The best modern analogy for you might be Mormonism. I suspect you do not believe Joseph Smith's claims, but if not, how do you explain the rapid rise and spread of the LDS church? Could it have something to do with tapping into the needs of the moment, and with being protected by American military and diplomatic might and carried to distant lands by American affluence?

Answer 5

"Historically there was a jesus..."



Actually, there's no evidence to support that claim. That doesn't mean there wasn't a real person on which the bible stories were loosely based, just that claims there WAS such a person are not supportable by evidence.



"...the majority of historians do agree that there was a jesus..."

No, they don't. The majority of historians have never bothered with the issue, and don't care.

And even if they did, that would be a fallacious "appeal to popularity" argument.



As for the rest...

Do you think the Buddha (who was also possibly a real person, but it's not certain) had supernatural powers and knew to to achieve enlightenment? No? Then how do you explain how Buddhism developed? And the "miracles" attributed to him?



Do you think Muhammaed was an actual prophet of god, and few up to heaven on a horse? No? Then how do you explain how Islam developed?



Mythology is invented -- it doesn't require a real "source."



Peace.

Answer 6

No, sorry, you are wrong. The "majority of historians" do NOT agree that there was a Jesus.



Sorry you have been so blinded to actual study of facts by the prejudices of your religion, but there is absolutely NO evidence outside of the Big Book of Fables you call the Bible that references anyone named Jesus that fits the description of your "savior" in any way.



I am NOT kidding or trying to get your goat here. I'm only telling you what you should know before you spout off and make yourself look like an undereducated fool. STUDY UP! And I don't mean your Bible because that's only going to tell you what you want to hear.



The huge majority of historians (especially those who have spent their lives and careers studying the time period in question -- many of them hoping to find the evidence you so desperately need to show the divinity of your guy) have come to the inescapable conclusion that Jesus never existed. But, never fear, further scientific study goes on to this day. But nothing has come to light in the past 2200 years so far.

Answer 7

He had some really good public relations people, in particular, St. Paul. You should know that Jesus was not considered to be a god until over 300 years after his birth, at the First Council of Nicaea, where it was decided that Jesus had been divine. (As if you can vote on something like that.) That's also where they decided Jesus had been celibate. Doesn't mean it's true; it's just that's where the leaders of Christendom came up with the basic story they were all going to stick to.

HItler wasn't a god--so how did he rise to power in Germany; how did Nazism develop if he wasn't a god? See the problem with your question?

You believers really have to stop trying to apply logic to your illogical beliefs. It can't be done, because you have no facts on which to base your arguments.

Answer 8

There is no credible, contemporary evidence of the existence of Jesus, cupcake, so there most certainly isn't agreement as to his historicity. He could have been entirely fictional, a composite of several preachers in the area at the time he was supposed to have lived, or a real person with whom fantastic stories became associated.



Your argument "if jesus wasnt really god, how and why did christianity develop after he was crucified" isn't a good one.



Miraculous stories have been told about a number of figures throughout history - figures for whom there is a great deal more documentary evidence than there is for your Jesus - and some of these stories form the foundation of religions you don't follow. Your argument does not provide any reason why it applies only to your Jesus and not to any other figure.



Bertha Broadfoot - the mother of the Emperor Charlemagne - certainly existed, as we know from a relatively large number of contemporary sources. However, the stories that have become associated with her - notably, the fairy tale called The Goose-Girl - are not automatically true because we have strong evidence that she actually existed, and the fact that the stories became attached to her does not indicate that she really had a magic talking horse and an evil stepmother and stepsister.





Added: Sorry, but the Tacitus and Suetonius references are brief and ambiguous or inconclusive at best (the Tacitus reference is really only to followers, not to the historical existence of Jesus, and the Suetonius reference could be anyone, including someone who was physically in Rome at the time of the riots he was describing), and hardly constitute "a surprising amount of information," unless by "surprising amount," you mean surprisingly small and ambiguous.

Answer 9

No, the majority of historians do not agree that there was a historical Jesus. There is no reliable proof to confirm his existence. Personally I think he may have existed, but there is no compelling evidence to suggest this. We know Troy existed, for example, but that doesn't make Achilles an invulnerable warrior who can only be harmed in his heel because that's where he was helped when he was dipped in the river Styx.



Greco-Roman Sources:

Pliny the Younger - Mentions "Christus" since Christ means "messiah" this does not infer Jesus, just someone dubbed as the messiah, and the have been MANY.



Tacitus - The end conclusion scholars have reached is that the Tacitus passage is at best just Tacitus repeating what he has heard through Christians.



Suetonius - Mentions "Chrestus". Chrestus was itself a common name, particularly for slaves, meaning good or useful. The passage offers little information about Jesus himself and is not conclusive.



Jewish sources:

Josephus - Josephus wrote the Antiquities of the Jews in AD 93. In these works, Jesus is mentioned twice, concerns have been raised about the authenticity of the passage, and it is widely held by scholars that at least part of the passage has been altered by a later scribe.



Mara bar Sarapion - A letter written to his son mentions the murder of the Jews' "wise king" -- Connecting this to Jesus is presumptuous, Jesus was never mentioned in the letter.



The Talmud - Scholars who promote the conclusion that Jesus is a myth sometimes use this early rabbinic literature to argue that the Jesus stories of the gospels derive from a Jewish teacher in the 1st or 2nd century BCE.



Dead Sea Scrolls - The dead sea scrolls confirm that it was believed he was real around 150 AD, this is not however a document that existed during the actual life of Jesus and was committed to paper afterwards.



Other Sources:

Lucian - Mentions Jesus in his writing, but was not even born until AT LEAST 70 years after the death of Jesus. Just a re-telling, not a first hand source.



Celsus - Also wrote of Jesus, but again, Celsus' writings were from 248 AD



Acts of Pilate - Comes from the middle of the 4th century and is not considered to be authentic.



Pauline Epistles - Second hand account



Gospels - Not evidence as they are specifically a religious tenet. The four canonical gospels were based on earlier, no longer extant sources.

Answer 10

....the jesus in the bible was a revolutionist that was fighting to free his land of the invaders (romans and greeks)...if you read carefully you would see that for yourself!



his so called disciples were like his body guards or partakers in the revolutionist,that's why he told them "if they had a purse to sell it and buy a sword"(why would a holy man tell someone to buy a weapon?) and that's why peter cut the centurions ear off!



....now, since they already had a blueprint of an "historical figure" all the had to do was add a few details and vola you have a man that is written as a god!



that's why deep down you know that the "trinity" does not make any sense because if he was all of these beings then he would also be aware of what he is doing at all time..for instance who was he talking to when he said "father if there be another way let me pass this cup"..who was he talking to?



the word trinity is not even found in the bible and the word jesus is only found in the new testament..now you see why they had to create the new testament!

Answer 11

Sorry, but there is only one book that talks about Jesus, and it contradicts itself. One example of this is listing Jesus as being of the House of David because Joseph was, when Joseph was not Jesus' father.



I have studied Latin for years, trying to find even a single text that talks about anything from the Bible - but have found none. Not even a record of the census that was supposed to be the reason for Mary and Joseph going to Bethlehem in the first place.



I'm afraid that the only historians who believe in a historical Jesus are Christians trying to prove a point. (Believe it or not, a lot of "historians" in the ancient world just told any fantastical story that would get attention. One of the guys who wrote about Jesus also wrote that people in Africa didn't have heads, they just had faces on their stomachs. Seriously.)

Answer 12

No, Jesus never actually existed, and many scholars know that. He is probably based upon a combo of several men with copies of myths form nearby nations added to the mix and stories to have him fulfilling prophecies. There is no genuine evidence that he did exist. He wasn't mentioned by anyone until decades after he was supposed to live, and some mentions of him are later forgeries, especially in Flavius Jospehus' history. You're wrong to say the majority of historians agree that Jesus existed, but if it was true, that means nothing. Appeal to popularity is illogical. You're just trying to force that upon us, but it won't work. How did Buddhism, Jainism, Taosim, Islam, Shintoism, Mormonism, etc., etc. develop if their founders weren't gods or prophets of gods? By your dubious reasoning, all religions are based upon real gods and prophets who speak for those gods. EDIT: Chrestus is a common Greek anme that is not he same as Christus. Just mentioning Christians doesn't prove Jesus Christ existed any more than mentioning Shintoism proves Amaterasu exists. Skeptics ahve refuted all of the secular sources aplogists list, so you're only wasting effort to mention them.

Answer 13

I thought there was and there are many historians who ASSUME there was b/c their main focus is some other time in history/subject but when I looked into it, there was NOTHING that did not have legitimate failings in regards to proof.

I did not pull this out of my butt. This was after looking at several different books/websites.

However, even if a person were to accept he did, there's good reason to believe that words were put into his mouth and events made up since there are cvontradictions and it is very telling that nothing was written about any miracles happening at the time. Nobody wrote ANYTHING.

When these events were recorded, they contradict each other and many, if not all, the disciples would have been dead during the time the gospels were written or so old anyone would be suspicious of what they 'remembered'.

Answer 14

Christianity developed the same way all the other beliefs did. Since the beginning of recorded history, which is defined by the invention of writing by the Sumerians around 6000 years ago, historians have catalogued over 3700 supernatural beings, of which 2870 can be considered Gods that people worship or have worshipped. Those numbers are probably a very conservative estimate because we have no accurate information before 4000 B.C.

Answer 15

A lot of educated atheists have answered this question and they will probably think I'm being self righteous for saying this, but I think the jesus message is clear, treat others as you would like to be treated. I don't like all these christians who delve into the bible and twist and turn it's meaning to make themselves feel superior, picking it apart into little sections while completely missing the message. I think he was wise had some good ideas and got royally screwed for preaching, even if he wasn't a demi-god or even existed in the first place, you gotta give his character some credit, jesus was brave.

Answer 16

The is no conclusive, definitive, for sure evidence that, historically, there was a Jesus. It is still debatable, and there are still many theories for where the "character" of Jesus in the Bible was developed. There is a LOT of evidence that he was derived from other myths.



How does any religion develop? Are you saying that any and all religions must be valid simply because people follow in them, even if they contradict each other?



ETA: Actually - no.

Answer 17

There probably was an apocalyptic preacher who gathered a following that Paul was able to exploit.



Study the real history of Christianity sometime. It's not at all what your church probably led you to believe. First of all, the apostles considered themselves Jewish followers of a particular teacher until Paul came along and started building a new religion with lots of pagan elements and preaching his version to Gentiles. Second, it would have remained a small fringe cult if it hadn't caught the attention of Constantine, who made it the official religion of the Roman Empire which spread the religion throughout all the regions controlled by Rome.

Answer 18

Maybe there was a 'Jesus" who had a new way of thinking about life and how to live it....

Christianity however..could have been founded on ( a bit like starting a new political party) ..'.hey guys!! ...this bloke got loads of people listening to him and writing about him...lets jump on the band wagon! ...make a martyr or two....rule the known world with promises.. take away a few rights ( especially the women..getting a bit uppity lately)... and we'll ignore the non-believers consign them all to dammnation...or go to war ( actually war would be better because we can take their assets..and get some good land deals)..We have to get the propaganda right first...so lets get rid of all those 'gospels' that mention anything that relates to equality, reincarnation, womens rights...and loving one another....

It's 250 AD...we can do this!!!!! it's a win win situation..!'

Answer 19

That's like asking why Islam developed...



People develop a following for all sorts of reasons...



Many, if not most, times through the use of the sword...



BTW, a charismatic man named Jesus MAY have existed. But there is no direct evidence for such such a person.... and definitely none regarding his divinity... It's not unusual for people to accept and follow someone for religious reasons. It happens all the time, even today...



IMHO

Answer 20

Most historians are Christians, so most of them believe he was a real person. However, as more evidence comes out, and as is becomes more accepted to question his existence, more and more feel the Bible is not an accurate account of history.



For example, there is good reason to believe Bethlehem didn't exist until the 2nd or 3rd century BC.

Answer 21

"Historically there was a jesus", "the majority of historians agree there was a jesus"...



Really?



Please support your statements with reliable verifiable evidence...



"If jesus wasnt really god, how and why did christianity develop after he was crucified?"



A simple story regardless of validity is enough to start a movement... For instance in the 1980's and again in the early 90's a story regarding Proctor and Gamble began circulating... The story was believes by many people resulting in a movement to boycott P&G products without any validity to the story...

Answer 22

Jesus may have existed. There's no solid evidence. Jesus was a symbol, more than anything. Virtually every single aspect of his life that's been 'recorded' was plagiarised, taken from elements of other ancient Sun Gods that came long, long before him. Horus, for example, was born of a virgin on 25th December. Three kings travelled bearing gifts. He travelled about with his 12 disciples performing miracle such as healing the sick, turning water into wine and walking on water. One of his disciples, Judah, sold him for 20 (or 30, I can't remember) pieces of silver. Horus was crucified, dead for 3 days before resurrecting. Horus was the original Sun God and supposedly existed approximately 3000 B.C. In between Horus and Jesus there were HUNDREDS of these Sun Gods, many of whom's stories carried the basic literal elements such as the virgin birth, walking on water, crucifixion, dead for 3 days, resurrection.



We are all atheists when it comes to believing in Gods such as Thor, Mithra, Horus, the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus. I just believe in one God less than you.

Answer 23

How does any religion take off? Look at Scientology! A Jewish cult got injected with neo platonic philosophy and appealed to the Romans.



Actually, the objective reality of Jesus IS most seriously questioned, the consensus seems to be he is a confabulation of several rabbinic figures.

Answer 24

Christianity came from judaism and other religions. And it didn't come around until about 150AD, and it didn't gain real popularity for several hundred more years. People didn't know much about the Earth yet, so needed someone, like a god, to blame lightning on. After Fred died, where did Fred go?

Answer 25

No non-religious historians will say with any certainty that he existed. There is absolutely no credible evidence of it. That claim simply doesn't work.



As for "how and why did christianity develop after he was crucified" I would answer by asking how Odin became the All Father to the Norse if he wasn't real. How Zeus became the god of the Greeks. How Horus and Ra and Set became worshiped by the Egyptians? How did any god become a deity if they weren't real? If you logic works for any of them, it has to work for all of them.

Answer 26

I note that you didn't provide any reliable evidence that Jesus existed. An assertion about "the majority of historians" is not sufficient.



All reliable evidence points to Jesus Christ being just a myth. There is no reliable evidence that Jesus even existed, and significant evidence that he didn't. The evidence is in the Bible, the other religions of the time, and the lack of writings about Jesus by historians of the time.



The story of Jesus can be shown to be just a myth cobbled together out of prophesy and stories from the Old Testament and previous gods and myths -- created in the 40's and 50's by Paul of Tarsus (who exhibited evidence of epilepsy and had delusions of Christ talking to him), the other apostles, the unknown authors of the gospels in the 70's or later, and many other people. The reliable evidence for this is overwhelming.



Paul and the other epistle writers don't know any biographical details of Jesus' life, or even the time of his earthly existence. They don't refer to Bethlehem, Nazareth, Galilee, Calvary or Golgotha — or any pilgrimages to what should have been holy sites of Jesus' life. They also don't mention any miracles that Jesus was supposed to have worked, his virgin birth, his trial, the empty tomb, his moral teachings, his disciples, or even when he existed. To them Jesus was largely a sky-god, who existed in the spiritual past.



If Jesus had actually existed, Paul would have written about his life, disciples, and teachings. Paul did not write about any of this. Paul wrote (in Romans 16:25-26, Galatians 1:16) that he knew Jesus through revelation, which is another term for fantasy. We can also tell that people were accusing Paul of lying, because he attempted to defend himself in Romans 3:5-8.



If Jesus had actually existed, the gospels would have been written in first person format. Instead, they were written in third person fiction format like a Harry Potter story, with Matthew and Luke extensively plagiarizing from Mark.



If Jesus had actually existed, at least one of the approximately 30 local historians of the first century would have written about him. No historian of the first century (including Josephus) wrote about him or his disciples.



Therefore Jesus didn't exist.



The Jesus story also shows extensive similarities to other myths of the time (especially Dionysus, Mithra, and Horus). Some early Christians attributed this to Satan who went back in time and created the religions that "copied" Christianity.



Jesus is worshiped on Sunday because he is a sun god, like Mithra, Zeus/Jupiter, Horus, Attis, Dionysus, Adonis, Tammuz, Hercules, Perseus, Bacchus, Apollo, Helios, and Sol Invictus -- whose birthdays are also on the old winter solstice of December 25, when the sun is “reborn.”



There were more than a dozen other deities and saviors who were resurrected after violent deaths -- Mithra, Osiris/Serapis, Inanna/Ishtar, Horus, Perseus, Bacchus, Attis, Hermes, Adonis, Hercules/Heracles, Tammuz, Asclepius, and Prometheus. Christianity just told the story the best, and managed to get control of the government under Constantine.



For much more evidence, see the links.

-

Answer 27

Thank Constantine. He was the first Roman emperor to convert, making Christianity the pre eminent religion during his lifetime.



And, BTW, your logic is flawed. The development of Christianity in no way proves the divinity of Christ.

Answer 28

First of all, it's spelled athEIst. Second of all, why do you tards refuse to use the plural form of the word, you know, with the letter "S" on the end? And Jesus is a name so the J is capitalized.



Learn proper English or be an idiot the rest of your life.

Answer 29

there's no evidence for a jesus character.... the mythos may have been based on one or more itinerant preachers. one of whom may or may not have been named Yeshuah (Jesus)

Yeshuah was a resonably common name at the time. It's basically the same root as Joshua



itinerant preachers were common around jerusalem, and they all had their own band of followers.

christianity was promoted and, mainly, invented by Paul, that old misogynist



christianity was simply a sect which got lucky

Answer 30

Claiming there was a jesus of nazareth is a dogmatic claim my friend. How did Christianity develop?, i'll answer this with another question, how did the thousands of other religions start, according to you all of these religions had to of been true for them to start.

Answer 31

Anti atheism is doing plenty injury to Christianity that that's unquestionably anti Christianity – David Manley It takes relatively in straight forward terms one to make a quarrel. that's ineffective for the sheep to bypass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, whilst the wolf maintains to be of a diverse opinion. - William Ralph Inge. Why so unaware of what motives the backlash against christianity? all the different religions and atheists stay in peace and are in straight forward terms attacked by undesirable christians which motives all sturdy christians to melancholy on the wear and tear they do! Up until eventually approximately 40 years lower back Christianity substitute into thriving and there substitute into no conflict with others yet in in simple terms those few short years the famous christians have become illiberal, hate crammed, bigoted and persecuting ensuing in a growing to be backlash against christianity and inflicting christianity to loose over ten p.c. in below a decade with the loss accelerating! The self destruction of Christianity is underway and the only ingredient that can supply up that's to desert the undesirable human thoughts, seek for to rediscover the assumption of a loving god and act like it! Posts like yours that stress human beings greater advantageous faraway from God are driving you in direction of hell. So who're you working for the devil or the antichrist because of the fact it valuable ain't the loving god! so who is going to hell? I recommend you seek for pastoral help promptly!

Answer 32

I normally see the point as a warning. Some dude called jesus i think, told the world he was god, the world tortured and killed him for it. So, what have we learned? Don't play god? People don't like god?

God said i love you so much i'll kill myself?

These messages are clearly important, let us spread the good word.

Also people will be more afraid if we give them new stories to enable social control.

Answer 33

Puoi dimostrarmi che Gesù sia realmente esistito?



Can you demostrate me that Jesus is really existed?



Sai con quali mezzi si è diffuso il Cristianesimo, o non lo sai, solo perché vivi in America e NON in Italia?

Answer 34

So, judging from the responses, I'm going with "Jesus never existed for the same reason dust doesn't exists. I don't believe it, so that settles it."



Seriously, people, if you're so blinded to the evidence that Jesus really was around, then why do you believe Nero/dust/the sun/sugar existed? Same logic. (None. Absolutely no logic in your silliness.) Oh wait, it is logical and evidence itself you deny, right down to the moronic answers above this. You're smart enough to type, so you're just proving you want to be utterly stupid about things. you disagree with. Now there's "logic" for you. I expect absolutely none of you to dare say Christians aren't logical again. You've just proved you wouldn't know logic if it hit you across the face. (And, I really do expect all of you to continue to wallow in your mud bath of your stupidity act.)



If I were an atheist, I'd be more embarrassed by you than I am as a woman embarrassed that Madonna (the singer, since you're already proving your childishness and determination to look stupid) is my gender. Hey, at least, I can point to this thread when people say theists are stupid. ;)



Historic Jesus has been proved again and again by atheist, theists, archaeologists, historians and every other which way one can prove an historic figure. Get a grip, or don't try to look so incredibly stupid. You can type, so you already proved you're not that stupid; you're just acting the part and poorly at that.



As for the question itself? What were you expecting on this board? Real thought? Honesty? Truth? I've only been on this forum for a week and nine times out of ten, that's the opposite of what you get here.

Answer 35

"Historically there was a jesus"



Bullshit.



"If jesus wasnt really god, how and why did christianity develop after he was crucified?"



Why did people spend a life's savings on a single tulip bulb? Mass dementia.



ADDENDA



"these facts likely limited the amount of surviving eyewitness testimony of Jesus."



Umm, there is NO surviving eyewitness testimony of Jesus. None. Not a whit.



Think so? Then present it.



Hint: There isn't any in the Bible, either.

===



Tacitus?



ROTFLMAO!



Get an education, sonny.

Answer 36

Jesus divinity was invented by the roman catholics. They hijacked christianity by turning it to a psuedo-pagan-christian religion fabricated a divine jesus and made him a person by inventing the trinity, which is a knock off of the Hindu trimurti (brahman, shiva and vishnu). Arius have theological disagreement with bishop alexander, was excommunicated and exiled. He manage to be reinstated but failed for he was poisoned.



http://www.earlychurch.org.uk/arianism.php

Answer 37

"how and why did christianity develop after he was crucified?"



Power and control...influence of ideology. Jesus was USED as a centerpiece around which a religion was built. The religion was then USED to control the lives of those people not in power. Those who opposed the christian/catholic religion, those who rejected biblical ideology...were put to death.



They were silenced...permanently.



The sheep that were left became blind followers...

Answer 38

"Actually the majority of historians do agree that there was a jesus"



Not true. Pulling facts out of the air doesn't make them true. Try doing a little reading.

Answer 39

By your analogy, Martin Luther king jr could be god cause his views developed after he died. However, what about the 100 year gap after Jesus died and Christianity catching on?

Answer 40

The majority of historians do not weigh in on the actual existence of Jesus, but agree that Christian doctrines are (apparently) based on the death of someone or other. While there is no independent historical conformation for the existence of "Jesus of Nazareth", there is plenty for Christians, who by the early 60s had caused enough of a public disturbance to bring about persecution from Rome.



The "divinity" of Christ is not the founding basis of Christianity, anymore than the cult of the Roman Pantheon is based on the existence of Jupiter. In fact, the first Christians were too busy preparing for Christ's return to speculate about his nature or relationship to "The Father". Only when things settled down a bit and the apostles had died off did anyone think that there might be more to life than an imminent Second Coming. So when you read the letters of Paul (the oldest scriptures of the New Testament, all the divinity Paul ascribes to Jesus is post-Resurrection. Paul really knows nothing about Jesus beyond "he died and was RAISED by God." (Note the passive verb: not "rose".) Questions arose, and when Mark wrote his gospel, Jesus then became Christ at his baptism, with the descent of the dove. More questions arose, and by the time Matthew and Luke wrote, they felt the need to write completely contradictory nativity stories to prove Jesus was born Christ. John had at least another 20 years of theological development, so he skipped the baby story and brought Jesus, as The Son, to the very beginning of creation. Apologists whistle past Jesus' growing divinity, but if you put the books in order written, it's obvious.



But Jesus didn't really start Christianity. He had a unique interpretation of Torah, but he never personally established a new religion. That was famously done by his inner circle of "Apostles" at the Jewish feast of Shavuot (Pentecost), as related in Acts 2, when Peter addressed the crowd. Jesus had departed over a week before, so all the converts had never actually met Jesus. The Apostles controlled the message, which was retransmitted and embroidered by missionaries such as Paul. If they were really clever, they could have concocted the story of a perfect man who founded a more inclusive form of Judaism and only pretended to be fishermen. Or they could have been genuine followers of a wandering rabbi, choosing to validate his ministry by hyping the story a little, then watching their own followers get carried away with the story.



Christianity developed, and survived persecution, because of its message of love, humility, compassion and service. When other religious healers did there work, they always charged a fee. Christians didn't. And while the Jews and the Romans required burnt offerings, the Christians said that all the sacrificing had been done and all that was needed was for people to take care of each other, especially those who couldn't take care of themselves. This was a unique message in that time. The devotion to each other was also demonstrated in their attitude toward their martyrs, at whose tombs they shared their fellowship meals, even when it was dangerous.



But as Christianity grew, and the sheer number of adherents gave them political power, Christians became very serious about mapping out their theology (something Jesus had never bothered to do). Factions arose, believing a variety of things about the essential natures of Jesus and of God. It got ugly. Preachers of one faction would be driven from their pulpits and out of town by adherents to a competing faction, and street riots became common. This was one of the reasons Constantine legalized Christianity, to get a handle on the unrest. And unfortunately, when Christianity went mainsteam, it picked up a lot of Roman legalism and institutions.



But to return to Jesus, the "Christian" argument seems to be that Jesus had to have been either a liar or a lunatic if he wasn't really divine. But they leave out another likely alternative: that "Jesus" as Christians understand him, is a legend.

Answer 41

Correction: There MIGHT have been a Jesus. Many scholars believe that the historical figure who became the messiah in Christianity was searching to establish an independent Jewish state. If her lived, he was certainly influential and charismatic, but never claimed to be the messiah. After death, much like Michael Jackson, he was built up in peoples' memories. Hundreds of years later, people decided he was probably the messiah, and thus as born Christianity.

Answer 42

Jesus was a cult leader, like manson he had the gift of gab. He had a personality that would draw in the poor and weak minded to sit and listen to his stories. There are folks on our streets today who claim to be the messiah and son of god but we pay them no attention. In jesus's day people were more apt to follow and believe the homeless crazy claiming to be the son of god. Imagine him as a soft spoken man who was kind and convincing. He had a strong following and when the romans crucified him he became their martyr and this created the beginning of christianity. It wasn't until a hundred years later that many folks started putting the holly bibbble together from what they could remember of the stories passed down from generation to generation, this added to what ever they felt needed to be added.



It never died out unfortunately and today we have to deal with christians.

Answer 43

On of the roman empiers converted to christianity and made everyone in the roman empire christian,the roman emprire was huge ,which is why it grow after the death of jesus.

Answer 44

Did Jesus himself ever said that he is God? did he ever ask to be worshiped like God? Did he ever equate himself with the Father? Do you ever say in the name of the son the holy spirit the father? 1000 years ago saying the trinity in that order was blesphemy.

Answer 45

Gullibility.

Answer 46

You are aware I suppose that there was a very influential sect of Christianity called Arianism which did not believe in the divinity of Jesus? You are aware I suppose that Judaism never accepted the divinity of Jesus although it accepts he existed but was just one in a long line of false Messiahs?

Answer 47

Because it's highly possible that Jesus didn't personally supervise the making of the whole bible, and that his buddies did it for him.

Answer 48

Not arguing that a guy named Jesus mayhave existed. Only arguing that he didn't have magic powers.

Answer 49

We don't know if there was one Jesus. It was a very common name and the story was passed by word of mouth and clearly got mixed up with one other god - Mithra - he was born on Dec 25th to a virgin, had 12 disciples, was called The Way and The Truth, was crucified and rose again three days later and this was recorded 600 years before Jesus was said to be born. The story of Jesus is probably a mixture of many prophets at that time. Christianity developed because society was ready for a change and when a large number of people want reform a leader always emerges and is said to have said everything the movers and shakers want. Mohamed appeared for the same reason 600 years later. I recommend 'The life of Christ' and 'The essence of Christianity' which details all the social changes happening at this time which led to the need for a new aspect of god.

Answer 50

Do you think that a God can die and can be in a human shape and he couldn`t defend him self ؟ He was a Prophet like Abraham and Moses and all other Prophets and he wasn`t crucified the one who was crucified is someone who looks like him, he is alive and he will came back in the end of the time



You can hear that from this converted Christian preacher



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnGjoVWkPfQ



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xKm91vNTSc&feature=relmfu

Answer 51

Jesus is not God. God is not Jesus. In 1st John chapter 4, the bible explains how no one on earth has ever seen God. God sent Jesus as a representative of him.

Answer 52

simple he was a false god for doing wrongful things on the side lines just look at the apocrypha texts as well as the bible such as Mark 14:51 therefore judging from what has been done in his name;being Murder, Mass Suicide, Pedophilia, Destruction of heritage, Mass genocide(like Jihad for instance in somewhat related terms) and pure insanity and there's plenty more where that came from plus the bible is a corruption of Mesopotamian legends as well as ancient pagan chant(being Psalms) plus it was made up by anti-heritage old fools with a agenda;to control you preventing you from true freedom and a sense of love by leading you and plenty of others on a path to self destruction, therefore, jesus is wrong like the other false prophets of the bible, just like a fairytale that is made up by a madman

Answer 53

Look at ISRAEL's History (not religion), see how much information about Jesus you'll find



GOOD LUCK!

Answer 54

Why did you spell the name of Jesus with a small "j"?

Answer 55

and do you think that god needs to be beaten and crucified for his message to develop ?

can't you ask your self the question before you embarrass your self like that?

Answer 56

And Buddha was Indian prince. And after him Buddism was created.

Answer 57

Sorry, what is your evidence for saying that Jesus was a historical character?



I have seen nothing that supports this claim.







How did any religion take hold? Christianity promised rewards to those that followed it. Enough people we gullible enough to believe it.

Answer 58

It's 'atheist' and there is no historical evidence for 'jesus'.



Christianity didn't develop until over 30 years after his supposed crucifixion - and was successful mainly due to its being spread at the tip of a Roman spear.

Answer 59

"Historically there was a jesus"



That's open for debate. The evidence is circumstantial.



RESPONSE: "Actually the majority of historians do agree that there was a jesus" That's a talking point that many Christians like to regurgitate. It's meaningless because it's so ambiguous.

Answer 60

1) Historically...not sure.



2) Vishnu, Isis, Thor, etc. stories about them too.

Answer 61

I texted my mother (christian) I don't believe in god. Waiting for a reply..

Answer 62

We are all divine children of God. We all come from God. Go to Essene, Jesus religion. He never died. he was a master of Yoga. great master. he was also a Vegetarian. Yes there was a Jesus. Atma joyti.com.................................p.s. Funny how i get thumbs down here when i speak the "Truth". truth seeker. A knowing.

Answer 63

The same ways dozens of other religions that you don't accept as true have spread.

Answer 64

If he did exist, he was more than likely a priest or preacher who brainwashed a load of people and they passed all of his BS onto their children and then they passed it onto theirs etc...

Answer 65

Christianity didn't really develop until after the days of Nero. It was pretty much a fledgling cult when Nero became emperor, and didn't gain a foothold until Nero's plan to make them the scapegoats for a fire that spread due to his own incompetence backfired.



Even then, it wasn't until the fifth century and the days of Constantine that it became truly established.

Answer 66

Athesist means we dont beleive in your religous junk. ergo we probly don't beleive in jesus. And the historians who do beleive in jesus do because they're religous, not because it's fact.

Answer 67

IF there was an historic Jesus, he was a Jewish street preacher who p!ssed off the wrong people.



All the rest is Paulian claptrap.

Answer 68

Sure there was a Jesus, as a matter of fact he is out mowing the lawn at my office right now. Does this make him divine?

Answer 69

How and why did any religion start? Why are you so myopic in your question? Is it not intellectually dishonest to exclude the thousands of other religions from your query? What makes you think Christianity is some how different from any other set of religious beliefs?

Answer 70

They were still ppl back then that were naïve with false beliefs.

Answer 71

It is true that most historians agree that Jesus was real. The problem is that after his death he did not do as much as before. If you read the bible he only sees about 7 thousand people after his death and he doesn't make as big of a deal of who he is. So, most of them probably didn't even know who he was. So, little evidence is shown that he came back after 3 days. All we have are writings from poorer people and small groups and "trusted" history is based of of records kept by the state or powerful influences.

Answer 72

God the level of ignorance concentrated on this question is overwhelming.



Aren't atheists supposed to be smart?

Answer 73

May as well ask how any other religion developed...Christianity isn't the only one primarily based on a single figure, you know.

Answer 74

Please cite any credible historian who claims that Jesus is recorded as existing. (A proper academic please, not from the college of young earth apologists).

Answer 75

I always find it ironic to say the Jesus did not exist, since his Apostles wrote about him.

BUT;

In the same vein of light, we believe in Socrates, who wrote nothing either and was praised by Plato and Xenophon.

Answer 76

Probably the same way Islam, Zoroastrianism, and Mormonism spread, through exaggerations, misconceptions, and/or outright lies.

Answer 77

Actually, Jesus didn't do much of anything to spread Christianity. If you want to find the origins of Christianity as a religion, you should start with the letters of Paul.

Answer 78

"historically there was a jesus", no

Answer 79

Schizophrenics are often very charismatic and very convincing. Then too there was the whole dark ages thing when Christianity spread because they killed you if you didn't convert.......

Answer 80

Fanaticism, same as the Nazis

Answer 81

CHRISTIAN CURSADES



plus Mohammed can be the same said about him.

Answer 82

There were hundreds of jesus's. The history of christianity is well known didn't you go to school?

Answer 83

P. T. Barnum came up with the answer to your question a long time ago.

Answer 84

Couldn't that question easily apply to most other religions that are based on an actual historical figure?



The fact that a religion exists doesn't automatically imply that it must be true.

Answer 85

Josephus was a Roman scholar who was a Pharisee and sympathetic to the Romans. He was also a scholar and had no relation whatsoever to the Bible. Yet his writings describe the Savior and his followers. There are many other people who had writings like this that even HATED Christianity. Well atheists, you're out of luck. Tsk, tsk, tsk.



Heee heeeeeee hee hee heee hee heeeeee...... It's amazing how low your ratings get when people just can't accept the facts. Hilarious.

Answer 86

It's all aliens. Rael is still alive, so it must be true.

Answer 87

Jesus is God.

Answer 88

*Atheist



Let me ask you this: if Buddha wasn't really divine, how and why did Buddhism develop after he died?



Also, please find first-hand evidence (NOT the Bible) that Jesus ever existed. Please, I dare you.

Answer 89

I am an atheist. It is my belief that there was no Jesus. Ever. Christianity developed because people wanted an explanation as to why the universe and everything came into being.

Answer 90

There is thousands of years of evidence to proof the Holy Bible is from our Creator , it is not a lack of evidence why people do not want to believe in Christ Jesus as our Creator it is the harden of the heart and their free will which makes them think they are self righteous

Answer 91

"Historically there was a jesus"



Possibly.



"f jesus wasnt really god, how and why did christianity develop after he was crucified"



You mean religions only get founded on true claims?

Answer 92

Yahoo computers must of crashed

.

He Jesus is part of God

;

As are all the rest of us

.

We are the children of God

l

If that don't make us next of kin I don't know what does

.

Answer 93

"Historically there was a jesus."



Sorry. No evidence for jesus - certainly not the one that is described in the only book concerning him.

Answer 94

because the romans forced it upon most of the empire



you might have said, or someone else might



"If Mohammed/Allah wasnt really prophet/god how and why did islam develop"



can you see that religions happens regardless of truth



I doubt you beleive in islam, but you cant deny that it exists

Answer 95

1) Maybe there was

2) Because he told people he was and they believed him too.

3) Roman Empire and Constantine and all that



I used to be an atheist and I'm turning more religious again. I'm just answering how I would have answered before.