What do you think of new scientific study on the Shroud of Turin, saying the 1980's dating was bad/fraudulent?

Question

Belief was growing in the 1970's and 80's that the Shroud could very well indeed be the actual burial cloth of Christ.

Due to widespread demand about the artifact the church granted best scientists in the world one time access to the Shroud in 1988 to test it. Results seemed to say the Shroud originated from the Middle Ages but now a new study casts serious doubts on their findings.

This latest two-year study was headed and funded by French independent researcher Tristan Casabianca, with a team of Italian researchers and scientists

For many years the raw data used in these 1988 tests was never released by the institutions involved, despite multiple requests for them to do so. Finally, in response to the 2017 FOI, all raw data kept by the British Museum was made accessible to researchers for the first time.
“For almost 30 years, scholars asked in vain for the raw data from the three laboratories and the supervising institution, the British Museum,” Casabianca told the Register.

Based on new testing shows the 1988 results were unreliable.

He suggests: “For reasons of their own self-interest, the individuals supervising the test and those running the labs — in Oxford in particular — glossed over the abandonment of the protocols

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/the-shroud-of-turin-latest-study-deepens-mystery

Answer 1

It's true. Previous testing was unknowing done on a section repaired after a fire in the Middle Ages. Testing of the original fabric revealed pollen from the time of Christ

Answer 2

anyone who thinks it is a fraud is mistaken, it clearly is Jesus, it's meant to remain a mystery to test our faith in God and God's works

Answer 3

How could the early artist paint a negative , and have it appear as a 3D image ?

Answer 4

For those of faith, no testing is necessary. For those without faith, no amount of testing will ever be enough.

Answer 5

That shroud is a total fake that the church is trying to use as evidence for the fake Jesus.

Answer 6

It's an interesting item, but obviously has no effect whatsoever on the beliefs and teachings of Christianity, regardless of whether it is authentic for not.

Answer 7

I don't think it was fraudulent, but since they were allowed access to only a tiny portion of the shroud, it stands to reason it could have been contaminated or otherwise in error.

Answer 8

I would think is curious no gospel in the Bible ever mentioned anything about any Jesus image in that kind of Turin Shroud try to read John 20:7 And the cloth, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself. . So you will say that is something bad/fraudulent about that tale?..Curiously the first certain record about the Shroud of Turin was made in Lirey, France in 1390 when Bishop Pierre d'Arcis wrote a memorandum to Pope Clement VII, stating that the shroud was a forgery and that the artist had confessed...in other way it say that is something bad/fraudulent about the Shroud

Answer 9

There was an Atheist conspiracy against the Shroud in 1988. Two atheist scientists went into a closed room with no media to get the samples. No one knows what happened in the room (if they introduced contamination). Two well known atheist took the "sample"

Answer 10

I think it's beating a dead horse, just to be frank.

Answer 11

Muslim boat migrants are raping Italians in every part of Italy including Turin so who cares about the shroud

Answer 12

So, Some catholics in Italy retested the remains of the pieces tested in the 80's and miraculously came up with exactly the right dates required. LOL



Considering the fact that Italian science completely misconstrued and botched the DNA evidence in the Amanda Knox case, pretty sure some random Italian Catholics coming up with exactly what's required to salvage the reputation of a significant so-called "holy' relic is highly suspicious to say the least. Equally suspicious is the only people touting this so-called "new evidence" are confirmed died in the wool adherents of shroud authenticity and the so called new "scientific" test results are unverified by any other tests and use an as yet unconfirmed method.



That being said any reports about the reinstated authenticity of the shroud must be taken as nothing but the usual hogwash Christers pretending to be archaeologists and scientists routinely "discover". You know....like the dozens of Noah's arks and the numerous chariot wheels found in the Red Sea et al



Eye roll

Answer 13

All of that does not even matter. What matters is if you believe in Jesus Christ. The rest is just a bunch of false wisdom that doesn't matter one way or another. Believing in Jesus Christ is about faith. If you don't believe as a child you will in no ways enter into the Kingdom is what Jesus Christ says.

Answer 14

Personally I think the shroud is fake. It looks too middle ages. I do not base my belief it material evidence like this anyways.

Answer 15

I do not believe it and this is a sacred relic protected by the Catholic church and no one should ever

touch it at all.

Answer 16

OK, you've got a few places where people CLAIM to have a consecrated eucharistic wafer which shed blood.

That SHOULD be the blood of Jesus.

You've got the rumour that the crown of thorns is one of the sacred relics removed from Notre Dame before the remodeling and the fire.

And you've got the shroud of Turin.



Why not just compare DNA from the blood on each of these potential scam clinchers, and if they ALL match, they're all equally believable.



MIGHT be interesting to sort out the maternal DNA, and come up with the genetic blueprint for GOD's DNA.

Answer 17

Like I'd trust "science" which claims Jesus isn't real. Lol.

Answer 18

If you believe in God anyway, it doesn't take much to "see" Jesus on an old bed sheet.

Answer 19

At our weekly Athiest meeting, Satan stood up and said that we should get a salt shaker filled with graphite dust made of carbon 14 and sprinkle it on the Shroud while no one was looking.

We all thought that was a kind of funny thing to do.

Answer 20

We Christians know, it is not true.

Answer 21

Even were it dsted to 1c it would not prove authenticity

Nor does it matter. Jesus is alive

Answer 22

Please post a link.



Links posted by blue faced trolls do not work and are invalid.

Answer 23

You paste this, as if you think

the Freedom of Information Act

applies to scientific data

and to the British Museum.



The Freedom of information Act

applies to the U.S. government.



Just that one glaring error

casts the entire article in doubt

as propaganda.



Are you concerned that the Bible

contradicts the Shroud of Turin?



--

Regards,



John Popelish

Answer 24

Please cite this "new study" you think says any such thing. Where was it published? Which peer reviews were done? What respected, rigorously-reviewed journal published this alleged study you claim?



Frankly, I don't believe any such study exists, which makes you either a liar, or a dupe.

Answer 25

New? We've known it was a fake for ages now.

Answer 26

Christianity is still just mythology like all religions, no matter how old that piece of cloth is.

Answer 27

A person can better distinguish truth from fiction by reciting the rosary each day with care.

Answer 28

You don't need dating to know that it's a fraud. A real burial shroud would have one continuous image, front, side, back and other side, not two separate front-back images like a painting. Even if someone found that the cloth was old, that doesn't get rid of the problem that the image is of a front and a back. I'm pretty sure no one ever said that Jesus was flat like a paper cutout.



Not to mention the fact that one arm is longer than the other and dead bodies are not capable of holding their hands modestly over their genitals. And the hair is hanging down, like you would paint someone, not pooled messily around the head like a real body would show. And the image looks very European, not Middle Eastern.

Answer 29

The bible says there was a separate cloth that covered Jesus' face....that would make the shroud impossible

(Lazurus also had such a face cloth....it was a tradition)



John 20 Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb; and he saw the linen cloths lying there, 7 and the [a]handkerchief that had been around His head, not lying with the linen cloths, but folded together in a place by itself

Answer 30

12.0 ft. man? The minimum length of an answer is 15 characters.

Answer 31

We've always known that its a fake.

Answer 32

The Shroud of Turin is recognised by the Catholic Church as an important and ancient artefact. While we are open to the idea that it is the actual winding cloth of the body of Jesus, there are a number of problems with this theory. The most important is that the man on the Turin Shroud has the hair and beard of a 13th century Florentine nobleman, not of a 1st century Jew.



No-one has come up with a reliable explanation of how the image got onto the cloth. It certainly doesn't appear to have been painted. People with a certain type of liver complaint can leave a bodily imprint on their clothes or bedclothes. I wouldn't put it past mediaeval relic salemen to crucify someone with that condition, wrap him in a sheet for a few days then sell the sheet as the burial cloth of Jesus.

Answer 33

Of interest...







"...After extensive testing, Italian physicists determined that the image of the face of Jesus is only on the surface layer of the shroud, proving that the cloth was not dyed with vapor or gas, nor was it burned. Instead, the only feasible explanation physicists accept is an astoundingly powerful and extremely brief flash of light, such as the one that Christ’s body likely emitted upon his resurrection. “Basically, what it requires is six to eight billion watts of light energy for one-forty-billionth of a second,” Father Spitzer explains. Beyond this astounding discovery, other scientific evidence for the shroud’s authenticity includes its perfect 3D imprintation and symmetry."

Answer 34

FANTASY!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Why do weak faith Christians keep trying to invent evidence or proof and ridicule Christianity?!!!!!!



Christianity is a FAITH your need for proof shows lack of faith!!!!!!!!!



The shroud, measuring 14 feet, 4 inches by 3 feet, 7 inches has been Carbon dated in tests by laboratories in Oxford, Zurich and Arizona as dating from between 1260 and 1390. This has not been discredited and stands as true!



Shrouds at the time of Jesus were two or three pieces and no record of a single piece shroud has been found!



The cloth of shrouds of the time were a simple single weave. The Turin shroud is a far more sophisticated double weave not found before the middle ages!



The shroud was easily replicated using materials found to have been used by Leonardo da Vinci who is thought to have been the faker!



As Christianity's most disputed relics, it is locked away at Turin Cathedral in Italy and further tests have been refused. If it was genuine why refuse test that might confirm that?!

The Catholic Church does not claim the shroud is authentic nor that it is a matter of faith, but says it should be a powerful reminder of Christ's passion.

People who claim it is genuine tie it so closely to Christianity that as more and more proof shows it to be a forgery and a hoax that is how Christianity will be seen!

Answer 35

It dont interest me 1 bit



there are several things that would need to be proved besides its age to prove it was jesus's burial cloth



(Proving its age would be just step 1 (supposedly the easiest step cos the others are more difficult - a lot more)

And it aint the job of the sceptical to prove it aint 2000 years old - Its the job of believers to prove it IS 2000 years old, and they have come nowhere near doing that yet)



for example - you wanna claim is shows the face of jesus?

how you gonna prove that?-

got a photo of jesus have you?

you got ANY evidence of what jesus looked like?



(once saw a sketch of a famous person

the sketch only consisted of 3 lines not even connected - but it sure "looked like" that person

The brain is a strange thing- It tries to make sense of things that actually have no sense

It can even "see" actual objects from just splodges of ink on a piece of paper (the rorschach test))



The shroud could be proved to be 2500 years old for all I care

All you would have then is an old cloth with stains on it (care to try proving it IS a shroud?)



(sorry "anonymous" but who cares if they were atheists?

Why aint the chrch commissioned its OWN investigation into its age and under ITS full time control and maybe add a couple of atheists to check everything as it happens? - you sure gotta wonder why they aint done that?

Cant be the cost cos the RC church is just rolling in money)

Answer 36

I think it is highly unlikely that out of all the pieces of cloth around 2,000 years ago, that one survived. Also there an outline of a face, which could belong to anyone, and also it is unlikely that the face of Jesus would be visible on the cloth. Putting a cloth on a face does not make it show the outline of the face.

It is probably a fake from the Middle ages when people used to go around selling nails and bits of wood, saying they were part of the cross.

Answer 37

that stupid shroud is just SATAN playing games for those fools who really want to believe it, the ancient thing in this world connected to JEHOVAH's word is the dead sea scrolls.

Answer 38

The Shroud remains an unsolved mystery.

Perhaps, in time a process will develop that will determine an accurate method.

Sadly, the above must be performed without destroying the relic.

Answer 39

Three different labs tested it. By all means test it some more. Even if it isn't from the middle ages there is nothing to indicate whose face is on it.

Answer 40

It would be great if the Shroud could be verified as being 2000 years old, but it really doesn't matter that much to me. My faith is founded on Jesus Christ HIMSELF, and His resurrection. The provenance of a particular piece of cloth won't change that.

Answer 41

The 1988 test showed the materials did not come at Jesus's time. The test cloth was from a patch edge of the cloth, patched by the nuns apparently as the cloth got burn at that time.

Google Shroud.com. The article is massive and read the post-2000 studies/ Conclusion is that until now the scientists, anthropologist etc. don't know how the 3-d picture got imprinted in the cloth.

Answer 42

The Shroud of Turin is a good symbol for Christianity because it is a fraud, just like the religion.

Answer 43

And yet you were honest enough not to insist the old rag was anything but an old rag.



Kudos for that at least.



Is there anything in bibel about

The shroud left in the tomb?



When the 500 people saw him

Was he naked?

~

Answer 44

It could not be real because the head if Jesus was wrapped separately.

Answer 45

YES THEY DID ALOT MORE!

Answer 46

No, there's a Jewish man online who has a website devoted to it.



He explains how he came to believe. He's also a scientist on a TEAM of experts and he DIDN'T believe it?



Jewish secular, no belief?

The team were mixed, most JUST Scientists. They studied it for ZYEARS!!



Imagine.



Sorry, because I'm only somewhat interested, didn't keep it.

Try to find on YouTube where he gives a short talk, gives his website.



As a result, he's dedicated HIS LIFE to it.

Says it's true, real.

He said he's still unraveling things 30 YEARS later!!



Amazing.



Something about the thousands of pin prick laser marks?



Strange.

I believe him because of his position, account.

He said it brought him, an atheist to believe in God.

Not sure what version.

Answer 47

You won't be saved by history. either agreeing or disagreeing with it. It takes living Jesus' teaching to do that.

Answer 48

It's all designed to kept the relics relevant in the public so Catholics keep getting patronage.