Do these verses prove Apostolic Succession?

Question

John 20:21-23 = Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

James 5:14-15= Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven.

They are receiving the same Authority as the Apostles...

Matthew 16:18= And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Matthew 18:15-17= 'If your brother does something wrong, go and have it out with him alone, between your two selves. If he listens to you, you have won back your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you: whatever the misdemeanour, the evidence of two or three witnesses is required to sustain the charge. But if he refuses to listen to these, report it to the CHURCH; and if he refuses to listen to the CHURCH, treat him like a gentile or a tax collector.

Jesus is founding ONE CHURCH that will be inerrant. How can this be when we have one church that says baptizing infants is wrong, and another that practices this? How can this be when one church does not endorse homosexual practices while another ordains non celibate gay clergy?

Answer 1

Tell me, how can eyewitness authority be passed on?





Also tell me why do we need the Bible if such authority can be passed on?









Do you admit the absurdities?

Answer 2

I certainly don't see anything about passing on the authority that was given to the Apostles. DO YOU? It is not good to read more into the scriptures then is actually there.



The Greek word used in the NT for church is NOT an organization or group of churches, but "the assembly of (true) believers", which is THE CHURCH. During this time there were many local churches: Jerusalem, Antioch, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Colosse, Philippi, Rome, etc. a number of which were straying.....just like today.



I hope this helps!

Answer 3

No. Note that they do not **contradict** the doctrine of apostolic succession, though.



Logically, this is what they prove:



John 20:21-23 - proves that the apostles in particular were given the authority to forgive sins.



James 5:14-15 - proves that James believed in the power of prayer to heal illness. If we accept James' certainty as fact, it additionally proves that the elders in the time of James had the power to miraculously heal illnesses. Note the qualifier, though: "the prayer **offered in faith**". James - like Jesus - was limiting the power of miracles to those sufficiently faithful to pull them off, NOT to those who were considered successors of the apostles (who were still alive at that time and who did not consider all of the elders of the churches to be their "successors").



Matthew 16:18 - proves that Peter had a special status, a status clarified by Paul:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=eph%202:19-22&multilayout=cols&version=NASB;KJV

In any case, that passage is not relevant to the doctriine of apostolic succession...not even if you interpret it as being the appointment of Peter as the first Pope.



Matthew 18:15-17 - as is common among English-speakers - has, in fact, been common since the 16th century - Bible readers misunderstand how the word "church" is used in the Bible. The word translated "church" is more precisely translated "congregation". The instruction here is this: if all private attempts fail, bring your complaint against your fellow Christian before the entire congregation (before resorting to taking it to a court of law). The entire passage is giving instructions what to do *rather than* taking a complaint to the courts in a legal suit - but at the end recommends doing that if all else fails, (which is what is meant by "treat him like a Gentile or tax collector"). Again: this passage has no relevance whatsoever to the doctrine of apostolic succession.





Conclusion:



a - none of those passages logically prove the doctrine of apostolic succession (though none of them contradict that doctrine)



b - don't take my word for it...learn the truth from any scholarly source: the word "church" in English Bibles is more precisely translated "congregation". Do not interpret it as meaning "sect"! That is a VERY wrong understanding!



- Jim, http://www.bible-reviews.com/

Answer 4

No. The Bible stories do not prove anything, we have no idea who wrote them or why. They were certainly not written as real accounts by eyewitnesses.



I like the one about Jesus doing a 'magic puff' in John 20 though.

Answer 5

NO-many dont carefully read the Bible-Ppl CONFUSE TRUTH-offends many/HATE. Right OT/NT diff/connect=verses in WHOLE Bible context NOT a verse/passage=DONT add/omit things-1Cor 4:6-ways SEEM right but its end=death=Mt 7:21-23.



40+yrs I studied whole Bible-parts many times. JESUS founded Christianity(why it exists-I Cor 3:11)NOT Peter/Oc/Cc. JESUS taught Peter full truth 2 HELP head churches(shared keys with legit Apostles[Jesus=Door{Jn 10:1,9}=perfect=final sacrifice]).



With/4 Jesus 12Apostles started with Israel(ROCK is Jesus NOT Peter[human=sinner]{1Cor 10:4-Bible NEVER changes usage/Peter imitates but wasnt/replacing Jesus like Cc portrays popes[+throne infallible claim]as-Jesus/Peter NEVER SAT ON EARTHLY throne-HUGE HINT).



All 12 Apostles+Paul killed/died IN 1rst Cent-Christianity was illegal@the time/Bible shows corruption already in original churches(yes-Judas had 2 b replaced so orig 12 church foundation Pillars remains intact 2 hold 2 Scripture)-u can b Apostolic{fatherly}if u hv true teaching(ie Paul)but NEVER replace orig Apostle.



Most orig disciples were killed/died/forced 2 hide by Romans/others=NO CONNECT btwn Jesus' orig followers/Oc/Cc=orig church was wiped out-isolated true believer pockets were weak-easier 4 wolves 2 use Christian label 4 hid agendas(esp b/c most were illiterate@the time-Cc claims didnt give out Bibles 4 1000+yrs b/c ppl couldnt read-why didnt Cc teach ppl 2 read?-Cc made it illegal 4"common"ppl 2 hv Bibles).



B assured neither Jesus/Apostles authorized Oc/Cc Apostolic succession[final 12 werent 2 b replaced=God's Bible fixed order]-next gen added more corruption 4 core Cc beliefs/Constantine's support+more Pagan/OT practices 313-325 AD. By 390 AD Cc again tied 2 Roman State-Augustine(against Jesus' teaching-in 1054 Oc/RCc split).



A church/u cant know Jesus w/o real Bible directions-skipped by Cc(Cc DIDNT WRITE any of NT[not Cc text]-Apostles wrote NT in 1rst cent=NT preserved the truth 4 all[purpose 4 being written]not Cc-God(doesnt depend on man)let Cc prod Bible despite wrong teachings[privilege not a right]like He had Romans fulfill prophecy w/o knowing it[&again now].



God/Jesus always knew(declared end from start)what'd b written in NT/OT-full truth's complete within its pages(NT explains OT/OT proves NT truth=2 witnesses). Cc possession wasnt until 4th cent(after M Luther many Prot's/others kept Cc's wrong format/some Cc wrong teaching/fatal errors). 2 main lies r(cancels all Oc/Cc claims-most rnt Biblical[see below]=false gospel/real revisionist Cc history):



1~CC claims 2 b 1rst(oldest)/only true church. Apostles never named their church"catholic(universal isnt God's never changing message)"/never practiced Cc rituals-there's a 240+yr gap btwn Apostle's church/start of organized Cc=never part of/true 1rst Church-labels/titles/names, history/# of members/amnt of time it existed/claims about them[ie persecution]r meaningless-whats practiced makes it whole truth or a lie. Calling a dog god doesnt make it God. U can name anything anything-ie Jesus/Biblical prophets werent muslims as Izscam claims.



2~Peter was never a Cc/Oc pope/bishop/patriarch(ministry 2 Jews/Paul 2 Gentiles-died 240+yrs b4 Cc)/no Apostles were Cc members(not in Bible=no apostolic succession). Pope claim is Cc invention. Peter wouldnt call himself pope/b Cc member b/c calling 1self"Holy"Father+false Cc teachings(no"human"priesthood/rituals after Jesus)r abominations. Even devil knows Jesus is God's Son so b wise-dont trust church"authority"ahead of Bible. Saying ur Christian/believe Jesus doesnt make it true=Mt 7:21-23/RECITING creeds/words=USELESS.



Bible severely warns dont trust humans/u, clergy/churches/scholars, scientists/TV-Jer 10:2-5,23/Is 2:22/Job 12:11/Prv 14:12/Acts 17:11. Carefully think over what I say-Dont just believe/dismiss what I write-can save u 4rm getting in2 god[generic]less religions=poisoned tree/fruit.



God outsmarted us-Only the Bible cant b properly known w/o going 2 Jesus(Jn 14:6/5:39/II Cor 3:14/Is 29:11-12~Jewish ppl cant unveil OT w/o Jesus=all gentiles cant=why many interps exist/called fiction-why church history is so important).



=Why religion&spirit of doesnt=the truth-most r built on ideas/gods man likes/cant teach much on God-CANT ALL B RIGHT(only 1 Bible-why many interps? 2Pet 1:19-21)-cant teach what u don't know. Who knows more about a house-the Builder/ppl moving in later?



God wont bypass truth. If u do=no Heaven. God hates us b/c of sin but sent His Son 2 die 4 ur sins-Eternal hope is only in Jesus(wasnt talking out 2nor1000s of sides of His mouth=no confusion)/His Bible. In history only Jesus said He's the only way 2 God(Jn 14:6/Acts 4:12)-fully true or its a lie=no God-knows all or not God. If Jesus lied He's 1 more false teacher 2 ignore. All true believers r already (S)saints-S&s=same.



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