Why do Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses demean paid clergy?

Question

Why do Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses demean paid clergy?

Answer 1

It is part of the writings of the religion. The LDS structure is such as those within the the church in need are provided assistance. There is no law that states a church must provide charity in a particular manner. As late as the 1950's most Christian churches assisted their own first and it was on from a centralized point that charity outside the church was provided.



You might want to consider that almost every school in the US offers a degree in Theology. "Paid" clergy are no more devoted than non-paid clergy, Less than 150 years ago the majority of the people attended church services led by circuit riders, who may or may not have been educated in religion. These were men who traveled through the area preaching as they saw fit with no organized religion backing they. They were "paid" by the people hearing the service, which included meals and a place to sleep for as long as they stayed in the community, not unlike revivalists are today.

I am not well versed in the Witness religion, and cannot comment on it. However, as someone who is a visiting minister, I can say that working outside my religion to be self-supporting allowed me to understand the challenges of the people and to direct my sermons to their needs and no to lofty ideals.

Answer 2

Jesus didnt seek out those who were most "educated in religion" to be his apostles. So I would hope if you "submitted yourself to the authority of religious teachers" it would matter only that they were chosen of God, not that some other person indoctrinated them professionally. There is very little advantage to that since its only passing on another persons interpretations.



If you check some stats out (below) there you'll see that besides atheists (ironically) Mormons know the Bible better than any other christian religion. We arent paid, and yet we know it... and we study it, and we teach it well. Being paid has nothing to do with being a good teacher. However, sometimes it can bring out negative motivations. Such as those that teach the verse in revelation about "adding to the word", which all *educated* people know to mean the book of revelations ONLY, and not the bible in general which wasnt even compiled for several hundred more years after it was written. But you can see how someone, whose paycheck depends on how many are seated in the pews, might portray that verse to mean "any other religion but this one". And they do.



Just a different perspective to consider.

Answer 3

Both LDS and Jehovah s witnesses are man made cults that attack the truth handed to us through Christ and the Apostles. They are much like the Judaiizers and Gnostics that the apostle Paul was constantly refuting in his 13 letters of the New Testament. Both LDS and Jehovah s were founded by men, Joseph Smith and Charles Taze Russel who didn t like the grace message and decided that the true bible had been corrupted through the ages. The truth of the matter is, the Bible, both Old Testament and New Testament have been beautifully preserved through the ages. There is only salvation and atonement through faith in Jesus Christ. All others focus on faith good works and obedience to get to heaven. In other words mans own efforts where as the true bible (not NWT) tells us man can t get to heaven through his own works and obedience, but only through faith in Christ. Christ s blood alone has saving power. The hypo-static Union, Christ being fully a man and fully God makes him the only perfect sacrifice for humanity. He is the ONLY means of salvation. Whosoever will come and kneel before him he will give eternal life, without human works as all of mans works are altogether vain and as filthy rags before a holy God, Psalm 39:5 and Isaiah 64:6. Jesus said in John 14:6, I am the way, the truth and the life no man comes to the father but by me.

Answer 4

JW`s have paid clergy from circuit overseers upwards.

Circuit overseers are treated like royalty when visiting,provided with a small but livible wage,perk of a car fuelled,taxed and insured often they also benefit from health insurance and a pension fund incase the overlapping generation theory turns out to be nonsense in years to come like the past generation theory etc.

Strangely in court cases dealing with sexual abuse coverups the unpaid elders say they are clergy and therefore should have clergy rights to remain silent and hinder the case which must add to the pain,suffering and grief of the abused one who should have been protected-so just like any other church really they have paid clergy, just given different names but then boastfully denied in the numerous magazines and website that state they dont have paid clergy

Answer 5

That's easy. They want you to also assume retired, old white businessmen who have nothing better to do but become LDS bishops, all because they occasionally read their bibles, are the truly knowledgeable, and no one else is. Their leaders are "pure", untainted by money. Yet, I've never once met a mormon bishop who wasn't a formerly successful businessman. Not one was even remotely poor either. They were all independently wealthy, to a man. And after they became LDS bishops, they certainly never gave away all their worldly goods to the poor either. They lived in their wealth. I wonder why they just don't go to school and get a degree in Theology like most pastors do, putting some of that money to actual use? No. Instead, they are given an LDS leadership manual, and throw THAT hefty tome at people who come to them, humbled and poor.



I don't submit my spirit to anyone. God is my leader. He's fully capable of discussing issues with anyone. What makes the LDS assume the troubled are willing to listen to men if they won't listen to God first?

Answer 6

Teaching the word of God should not be a career. What happens when you start to lose your congregation? You may do something drastic to bring in more parishioners so that you can feed yourself and your family. This is how the doctrines of Jesus' church have been manipulated, so that men can profit off of the believers. If I say you're going to hell because of your sins, you'll leave and I won't get paid. If I say Jesus saves if you just believe, you'll stay and pay me.

Answer 7

Luke 22:35



And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.



As for Latter Day Saints, we promise as part of our covenants with God that we will freely give of our time and talents, as required by the needs of our congregations. It is not just bishops and stake presidents, apostles and prophets, but all of us. We are all called to serve in various positions, at various times of our lives. Some of us play the piano--without compensation. Some of us watch toddlers--without compensation. Some of us clean the church houses, cut the grass, and do maintenance work on the facilities--without compensation. From time to time, we are each called to prepare a talk to be given to the whole congregation, or teach a lesson in one of various Sunday Schools made up of children, youth, or adults. We are all called to visit one another in our homes. Some of us commit to fulfilling a full-time mission to teach the gospel. This is part of our sacrifice to show our obedience and devotion to God.



True, not all of us are public speakers, doctors, philosophers, scholars, historians, or professors. But God qualifies who He calls, and He often calls people to positions so that they can improve themselves and become better. I have found, as a teacher, that I would never have learned many aspects of the gospel if I had not been called to teach them to other people.

Answer 8

Yep, I agree with your analysis. Mormon bishops do their best, but at the end of the day, they aren't trained in theology or counseling, even though they act as an authority in both when members of their congregation approach them with problems.



The paid clergy model seems to make a lot more sense. In reality, the top tier of Mormon authorities are paid. Their housing and living costs are paid by the Mormon church.



And you're right about Mormon "charity" - it goes overwhelmingly to helping other Mormons. There is very little social outreach going on at the average Mormon ward level.



@Good News Proclaimer - you may want to check your BIble more closely. Jesus and his apostles were supported financially , at least in part, by his followers.



@Good News Proclaimer - point taken. :-)

Answer 9

You're correct. I agree with you. We had a few really good men in the Mormon church that were always passed over as Bishop for men less righteous but who were business men or the more wealthy members.

Answer 10

Hi,



The disciples were considered to be "unlettered and ordinary" and so were looked down upon by the pious religious leaders of their day. Yet they preached the truth. And the religious leaders rejected Jesus and his disciples even to the point of inciting the crowd to demand that a known criminal be released and Jesus be killed.

So, you see, qualifications and letters after a person's name means nothing.

Acts 4:13



Who would you have listened to in Jesus' time?

According to your question, it seems that you'd have rejected the testimony of the disciples simply because they didn't have 'qualifications'



Aren't real spiritual qualifications from God?

And wouldn't that be demonstrated by a person's ability to use and explain the scriptures?

Answer 11

Merriam Webster’s on-line dictionary defines “demean” as “to lower in character, status or reputation”. Your question seeks comments regarding the “demeaning” of paid clergy, by Mormons and JW’s, asking the reasons why this is so. Being an ex-JW, I will focus my response on the JW aspect of your question.



One reason the WT organization demeans paid clergy is ‘part and parcel’ to their elitist claims of being the sole purveyors of “Truth” today. Also, their well published, self-promoted claims to belonging to God’s sole “spirit-directed” organization today also fosters a sense of superiority over all other religions, including its better educated clergy. As such, all members of the clergy are viewed as followers of Satan and part of false religion as exemplified by the great harlot, Babylon the Great (Rev 17:1-8), according to WT teachings.



There is also a general sense, among JW’s, that paid clergy tend to be more gifted with “worldly wisdom”, i.e. the philosophies of men, as opposed to spiritual wisdom from God. This common view also tends to demean the clergy.



In direct contrast with paid clergy, JW’s appointed elders and/or ministerial servants (deacons) have no formal training of any kind. That some were fortunate enough to have attended college is incidental. The most important requirements for appointment to the office of elder are 1) demonstrating strong, unwavering loyalty to the organization (company men, as one mentioned) and 2) diligently and regularly showing support for all the organization’s programs, initiatives etc… and 3) elders being very familiar with all the judicial ‘rules/regulations’ found in the secretive Elder manual, “Shepherding the Flock”. In judicial matters, keeping the congregation “clean” and free of what the Watchtower considers to be “spiritual contaminants” is of the utmost priority.



Therefore, the results of demeaning or minimizing the need for formal secular training, in general, are predictable. WT elders are ill-equipped to provide any level of professional counseling in the areas of marital problems, child sexual/physical abuse, depression, suicidal thoughts etc… The common thread of ‘counseling’ in their visitations is limited to exhortations to “reading the Bible more”, “praying more”, “spending more time in the door-to-door work” etc…. as if these activities, somehow, are bona fide means of treating and/or resolving serious personal/family problems. There is a huge disconnect in this area, causing many to leave the organization, either by “fading” away or direct, formal disassociation.



Until the WT organization gives serious attention to this area, the results of using untrained elders will be "hit or miss", not a formula for success.



Note to "Porcelain Vessel"?:

You are 100% correct, the apostles were uneducated when compared to the Pharisees. But you overlook that these "unlettered" men were speaking directly and forthrightly by means of the holy spirit (Helper) which, as Jesus said, would "bring back to your minds all the things I told you" [John 14:26]. The events of the 1st century cannot be compared, even remotely, to our time. Elders today speak, counsel etc... those in need on the basis of what the WT organization has instructed them to say, in accordance to the Shepherding the Flock manual. Do you really believe the holy spirit operates upon them as it did in the 1st century? I think not....

Answer 12

Well all I can say is: Jesus gave free and expects his followers to give free too which is why we, Jehovah's Witnesses stopped putting a price tag on literature!



Lol no charitiable based structure within our organisaton; me thinks you never bother to look at our official website and especially the latest in the Phillipines; about 3 or 4 days after the tornado, several VOLUNTEERS went with lorry fulls of essentials! And that is just there! So to say we don't have a structual basis is trosh!



Then there is the CHARITY of using OUR TIME to go around knocking on STRANGERS doors, in the hope of finding ones who want to know Jehovah!



You seem to be conveniently forgetting the sheer amount of times that the clergy sector have been accused of pocketing monies!



If you wish to submit to ones who you deem as educated then no one is stopping you; however please note that Jesus welcomed UNLETTERED AND ORDINARY people to preach the word. And if you wish to go with "educated ones" who can't even answer simple questions about our Creator.....!



Indeed, sunshine brings a wonderful point out! Brothers and sisters who are missionaries goes to undeveloped countries and teaches ones there, how to use their own resources to get the best of living there!



What better way to help someone who cannot read, to learn how to read?





How about educating ones how to keep hygenic when they are living in areas that is rife with maleria etc? Oh yes, indeed, our publications explain how to keep clean when there is not a lot of water or they have to travel for water. Did you know that brothers and sisters who live in these areas, are the cleanest around because they take pride in doing their little bit; to us who just turn a tap on and get water - to them who have to travel miles to get one bucket of water - it is an achievement if they can do this and survive the trip, without getting ill!!!



A brother who goes to our hall, could not read nor write when he first studied and it was the witnesses, who taught him and now that man reads wonderfully!!!



Wow you never even think about how rich the clergy are and yet, do they sell their vast fortune to help others? What about those blasted pompous priests and bishops who walk around with their robes? Can you see them happily selling to give to the poor? No of course not.



Then you have the pope who the media is pronouncing a true man of God because he prays with severely disfigured people and washing the feet of criminals and opening his home to the homeless. Funny because everyone knows!! Yet we are told to go into the inner room and pray to our heavenly father. If you studied the new testament, you would see clearly the comparision to the pharasees of that time to clergy of now!!



An ex study of mine, her husband who has always been polite but not wanting to know, said to his wife not long ago - when they were watching all the pomp and rot with the pope etc and he turned to his wife and said: well I shall tell you know, despite what I have said about those witnesses, I give them their dues, they really are following Jesus unlike this lot!!!!

Answer 13

How much did Jesus charge to preach to people? What was his salary for healing, expelling demons, and resurrecting people from the dead? The answer is $ 0.0

Are paid ministers and clergy following the example of Jesus? No!!!

We do as God's Word instructs us to do. "You received free, GIVE FREE"

What part of "give free" do paid clergy not understand?





Micah 3:11-12

New King James Version (NKJV)



Her heads judge for a bribe,

Her priests teach for pay, ( Read this line again )

And her prophets divine for money.

Yet they lean on the Lord, and say,

“Is not the Lord among us?

No harm can come upon us.”

Therefore because of you

Zion shall be plowed like a field,

Jerusalem shall become heaps of ruins,

And the mountain of the temple

Like the bare hills of the forest.



Jehovah destroyed Jerusalem because of the peoples disobedience and the priests teaching His message for pay was included as acts of disobedience.



All elders of Jehovah's Witnesses are on call for spiritual matters 24 hours a day, but they all have secular jobs or live on social security. They do not expect the congregation to pay them for what the Bible clearly says to do for FREE.

Answer 14

I just want to correct an incorrect statement made by a JW poster who said:



"Well all I can say is: Jesus gave free and expects his followers to give free too which is why we, Jehovah's Witnesses stopped putting a price tag on literature!"



Jesus did tell his followers to give free. But that is not the actual reason why JWs stopped putting a price tag on the literature. Those words of Jesus are so clear as to make one wonder why it took the Watchtower so long to understand it and put it into practice. That they ignored those words for so long proves that obedience to Jesus was not the real motive behind the change.



History would show that televangelist Jimmy Swaggart was in court with the government over the issue of paying taxes on religious material he sold. Recognizing the implication his lost of the case would have for the Watchtower which also then sold their literature for a small fee, the Watchtower filed a friend of the court submission, essentially seeking to defend Swaggart's position for their own benefit.



Swaggart did end up losing the case, making it legally impossible for the Watchtower to continue selling its literature without paying taxes. It was because of this development that Jehovah's Witnesses stopped selling their literature and adopted the practice of offering them for free while making sure to tell the householder that they welcomed voluntary (wink wink) donations.



So the JWs' change to offering the literature on a voluntary donation basis was based, not on obeying Jesus, but organizational expedience. Of course, the organization always puts out its own spin to explain changes in doctrine and policy to the rank and file, to give them the impression that its all about greater understanding of the bible.



See the internet archive link below to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society's own court submission in the Jimmy Swaggart case:



https://archive.org/details/WatchtowerAmicusCuriaeJimmySwaggart

Answer 15

To be appointed a JW elder ,all a man needs to be is a 'company man' and will quickly rise through the ranks....it's all politics.

Among the worst of JW elders ,are those with little secular education...they tend to be more ignorant of human feelings,dogmatic, unyielding, unreasonable.... but they serve the Watchtower's interests of keeping a tight rein on the flock.

Many JWs have suffered injustices in the hands of these uneducated men.



@Suzzanne

What people in developing countries need is not Watchtower pamphlets which incidentaly ,are mainly found online, innaccessible to people in developing countries.

What they need is a good education , and some training in a skill that enables them earn a living so they can lift their families out of poverty.

JWs do not have REAL charities that benefit the community....they do not run schools,homes for orphaned children...not even for their own. ....they teach a few people how to read and write , not in real schools ,while they indoctrinate them to serve as free labour for the Watchtower....and they remain uneducated, easily controlled and manipulated by the Watchtower....

how does a WT pamphlet help a poor,homeless,orphaned child.? There are other organisations religious and non religious that offer REAL help, with no strings attached .

The few disaster management efforts you boast of are for highly publicized disasters, done for PR.

Answer 16

From the JW perspective, their leaders consider education to be dangerous. All that is required to become a Watchtower leader is male genitalia and the ability to parrot decisions from higher up.



You don't need an education to be an enforcer.



Witnesses love to promote that Jesus didn't have a degree (even though they attribute him with creating the universe) and that he didn't receive a salary.



Both points true. But Jesus also carried a box for the poor and accumulated no assets. He didn't head a multi-billion dollar printing empire



Their local leaders are lauded as following Jesus' example, but yet they give a pass to their parent corporation known for using free labor to flip property and donations for investment income.



Why? Because they have not doctrinal free will. They are not allowed to object or question decisions from their leaders so they just parrot what the "current truth" is in defense of whatever they currently believe. Tomorrow they could believe the exact opposite and they would be on here promoting the new belief just as strongly as they are this one today.

Answer 17

I like my preacher, who is paid. Many reasons is that he has time to help out in his ministry. He has been properly schooled and understands the Bible very well and is a very good speaker. I trust his teachings with my kids and know that he will stay within the guide lines of the Christian Faith. We have spoke many times as I have asked many questions and some debates. I trust him and I like it that he is paid and I know he is going to be there.





Now for the rest, I need to say that I agree with Kitledge 100%. He knows these people and how they think. Their very ideal is to downgrade our way of doing things just to promote that they are the ones doing it right and we are doing it wrong. I for one do not want an ongoing ministry of on the job training giving me the word of God.

Answer 18

Demean? Demean implies saying something that is not true; I can't speak for Mormons but as JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES we merely expose the lies and false teachings of the churches and draw people's attention to the truth of the bible.



If the millionaire lifestyles and the Palaces of the vatican are not disturbing then those that live in them shouldn't mind attention being drawn to them. If the clergy find the truth demeaning they had better look to putting their house in order.





DID JESUS HAVE A DEGREE?



Jehovah's Witnesses do the work Jesus entrusted his disciples to do and do so with the same number of degrees and certificates from higher schools of religious instructions as JESUS himself had (or the fisherman Peter or the famers and housewives and washerwomen that constituted the first members of our faith - Christianity).



NEGLECTED CHILDREN; FAT CAT LEADERS



Our congrégations are well cared for, marriages, funerals and pastoral visits on a regular basis for all members without exception and funny enough, those taking the lead manage to do so without charge. If the sorry lonely and spiritually bedraggled and bewildered state of the average Church member is the best their leaders can do then I suggest their not working for a living hasn't raised the bar one bit. In any case, the bible says that what we receive free we give free, and while we do have some full time ministers that are given a small allowance, the bottom line is however the clergy finance their ministry, they are doing it BADLY, and the sorry state of their flock is all the evidence needed to support that.





GOOD WORKS OR TALKING A GOOD GAME?



As an agnostic, I can only presume you are not aware that Christianity by defintion must do the work that Jesus commissioned his followers to do. That work was to preach the gospel. By any defintion, doing this free of charge to the good of the communitiy is a charitable work and one that goes to the heart of the problems that plague society. Jehovah's witnesses don't give fish, we teach people TO fish. In the most run down and disasvantaged parts of society we are their educating, helping supporting, visiting and showing love to those that others have forgotten.





JEHOVAH'S WITNESS COMMUNITY WORK



Furthermore, while we don't blow our own trumpets Jehovah's Witnesses have been recognised at both local and federal governmental levels in many countries for our charitiable literary classes, disaster relief programs and prison reform programs, as well as the voluntary bible educational work that we do.



In light of the above I can only suggest your research was lacking and encourage you to review your sources.



SUNSHINE

Jehovah's Witness



Watchtower November 2013: Lies that make God seem unlovable.

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20131101/