JW's, to get the NWT for you, in 1920?

Question

The WT Brooklyn group stated "The following words, found in the common version (King James AV),are not found in the oldest MSS, and are no part of the divine word. Let each Berean go through his Bible, pencil in hand, and mark out these words (list follows, over 2000 words)". ?
1. Are older MSS better? They used the Sinaitic & the Vatican Greek texts, 2 of the oldest & most
corrupt MSS ever made, found in trash cans in a catholic monastery. ?
2. They used these MSS because they agreed with JW's rejecting the Deity of Jesus. ?
3. The JW's changed the references to His Deity in over 23 places. ?
Are these historical documented facts true?
Just wondering your stand on the issue?

Answer 1

I can still show any J/W who is willing to listen that Jesus is Jehovah in their bible.

Just ask yourself the question Who did John the baptist prepare the way for? Jesus.

John quoted isa 40:3 and said it was about himself that he was the one who would prepare the way for the LORD. In the Jehovah's witness bible it says prepare the way for Jehovah make a straight path for our God......Jesus is Jehovah plain as day.



Now look at luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,



Jesus quoted isa 61:1 here and he said it was fulfilled as he read it. "This day this scripture is fulfilled in your ears"



So we know that it was Jesus who was talking in isa 61...Now read verse 8...“For I, the Lord, love justice;".....Who? the LORD. Once again the Jehovah's witness bible says Jehovah. Now...Who was talking in verse one? Jesus and where did the speaker change? the speaker never changes. Jesus is there in verse 8 calling himself Jehovah when he says "for i Jehovah love justice".

Once again Jesus is Jehovah.



Jesus is the LORD almighty God one with the Father and the Spirit. JHVH, JHWH, YAHWEH, Jehovah. God with us.

Answer 2

"1. Are older MSS better? They used the Sinaitic & the Vatican Greek texts, 2 of the oldest & most

corrupt MSS ever made, found in trash cans in a catholic monastery. ?"



For the most part, yes. This is standard textual criticism practice, and by no means is it limited to biblical textual criticism. Older is better. But besides the two you've mentioned, there are actually quite a few other manuscripts even older than they are that tend to support modern textual critics against the Textus Receptus used by the KJV.



Only the Sinaiticus was supposedly "found in the trash." But either this was because 1) Tischendorf claimed this so that he could steal it from the monastery, or 2) It was accidently misplaced/ thrown away. Either way, a 1500 year old vellum codex in good condition is not trash, regardless of the contents. It would fetch a high price from antiquity dealers even if the contents were drivel. And, by the way, appealing to the "manuscript in the trash-bin" argument is a textbook example of an informal logical fallacy!



"2. They used these MSS because they agreed with JW's rejecting the Deity of Jesus. ?"



Interestingly, the older manuscripts do support JW's positions better than the later manuscripts. This is consistent with the belief that Christianity gradually got more corrupted over time - a main JW teaching.



But regardless, most newer Bible translations use the same textual basis that the NWT did, including the NIV, NASB, HCSB, NJB, NAB, etc.



"3. The JW's changed the references to His Deity in over 23 places. ?"



We'd have to see the particular places you're referring to. But it is correct that the NWT translates some verses a bit differently (but then so do some other non-JW Bible translations). And do some of these "23" also refer to the textual changes mentioned above? If is, then so have the other Trinitarian translations mentioned "change" these verses.

Answer 3

1) We use the oldest manuscripts available, within reason, because they are less likely to have been copied incorrectly or contain other copy errors and omissions. We are not talking copy machines, but human writers, subject to errors. So the originals and those closest to the originals would naturally be the best.



2) If they happen to agree with what we teach, it is because what we teach agrees more closely to the original 1st century Christianity. You are talking the year 1920. The basic teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses were established in the 1870's and 1880's - quite a few years before 1920. It is interesting that the correct beliefs were located in the King James Version Bible before 1920, and yet textual evidence was found LATER to support these correct Bible teachings.



3) May we have the list of the 23 places? We cannot answer aye or nay without knowing what the 23 are.

Answer 4

A POWERFUL PRESENTATION OF the way the Bible canon has remained free of any collusion is as the ideas of Roman Historian Jerome had described:



*** si p. 299 Study Number 4—The Bible and Its Canon ***

THE DIVINE LIBRARY

4 What man knows today as the Bible is in fact a collection of ancient divinely inspired documents. These were composed and compiled in written form over a period of 16 centuries. All together this collection of documents forms what Jerome well described in Latin as the Bibliotheca Divina, or the DIVINE LIBRARY. This library has a catalog, or official listing of publications, which is limited to those books pertaining to the scope and specialization of that library. All unauthorized books are excluded. Jehovah God is the Great Librarian who sets the standard that determines which writings should be included. So the Bible has a fixed catalog that contains 66 books, all products of God’s guiding holy spirit.

5 The collection, or list, of books accepted as genuine and inspired Scripture is often referred to as the Bible canon. Originally, the reed (Hebrew, qa•neh′) served as a measuring rod if a piece of wood was not at hand. The apostle Paul applied the Greek word ka•non′ to a “rule of conduct” as well as to the “territory” measured out as his assignment. (Gal. 6:16, footnote; 2 Cor. 10:13) So canonical books are those that are true and inspired and worthy to be used as a straightedge in determining the right faith, doctrine, and conduct. If we use books that are not “straight” as a plumb line, our “building” will not be true, and it will fail the test.



=============UPDATED==========

More on the idea of the Bible Canon below:

Answer 5

What l would like to know becky, is why the name Jehovah has been removed from almost all the bibles out there and replaced with the words: Lord & God.

When did God whisper in these bible committee members ears and tell them to go ahead and replace his name?

How would you like it if your name was changed without your authorization and replaced with "He or She"?

Answer 6

This is not related to the NWT. Although the list is a factual one of inaccuracies, the source of it is not Jehovah's Witnesses.



EDITED TO ADD --@ God's Problem Child:



You said: "I can still show any J/W who is willing to listen that Jesus is Jehovah in their bible."



REPLY: Before you can do that, first you must explain the following 2 points:



POINT # 1:

Luke 1:31-35 basically explains that Jesus was the Son of the Highest. Who is the Highest? The answer is found in Psalm 83:18, which reads in KJV:

"That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth."

So, Jehovah is the Highest; Jesus is NOT Jehovah but is his Son.



POINT # 2:

We read in John 17:3 - "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

Here Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and his Father, whom he addresses as "the only true God." (Again, Exodus 6:3, KJV assures us that Jevah is God Almighty.)

If Jesus is Jehovah, why does he distinguish between himself AND "the only true God"?

Answer 7

we used the older documents to put together our bible. they are older than the king james version.