Question:
Are scientists finally starting to prove the existence of a soul?
anonymous
2014-02-18 10:47:08 UTC
This is really amazing guys - for any free thinkers and non dogmatic people this is a real pleasure and privilage to watch.


According to Dr. Hameroff, in a near-death experience, when the heart stops beating, the blood stops flowing, and the microtubules lose their quantum state, the quantum information in the microtubules isn't destroyed. It's distributed to the universe at large, and if the patient is revived, the quantum information can go back to the microtubules. In this event, the patient says they had something like a near-death experience, i.e. they saw white light or a tunnel or floated out of their body. In the event that the patient is not revived, "it's possible that the quantum information can can exist outside the body, perhaps indefinitely, as a soul," he said.

The Orch-OR theory of consciousness remains controversial in the scientific community. Many scientists and physicists have challenged it, including MIT physicist Max Tegmark, who wrote a paper in 2000 that was widely cited.

Still, Dr. Hameroff believes that "nobody has landed a serious blow to the theory. It's very viable."



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/28/soul-after-death-hameroff-penrose_n_2034711.html?utm_hp_ref=religion-science
22 answers:
A.Mercer
2014-02-18 12:02:11 UTC
See, the second a non-physicist starts talking about quantum physics you know the person is tossing on some major BS. This guy is a MD. What work has he done to give him any kind of experience with quantum physics? His whole premise depends on an interaction of sub-atomic particles with biological structures. What evidence does he have of that? How did he measure it?



Nope, what this guy did was read some stuff on quantum physics and decide that it could prove a soul exists and he then made up something that would cover the gaps in the idea. Nothing scientific in his work. Just unproven speculation from a person unqualified in the science involved.
Simon T
2014-02-18 11:07:18 UTC
Not really.



From the article:



The Orch-OR theory of consciousness remains controversial in the scientific community. Many scientists and physicists have challenged it, including MIT physicist Max Tegmark, who wrote a paper in 2000 that was widely cited.





It sounds like this guy has a rather wild hypothesis. Not a scientific theory.
Ricardo
2014-02-18 11:27:18 UTC
the quantum information in the microtubules isn't destroyed.



- YES, quantum mechanics.



It's distributed to the universe at large



- And that is proven how outside of the imagination.



it's possible that the quantum information can can exist outside the body,



- That is far different from "it is distributed".



The Orch-OR theory of consciousness remains controversial in the scientific community.



- Yes, since it is nothing more than "it is possible", not, "this actually happens".
?
2014-02-18 12:04:13 UTC
No, since that's unsupportable made-up nonsense, and not a "theory."



It also shows a complete ignorance (or willful dishonest disregard) of quantum theory and the laws of thermodynamics. No wonder the "scientific community" pooh-poohs it.



By the way, "it's possible that..." isn't a theory. It's not even an hypothesis.
Tor Hershman
2014-02-18 10:58:13 UTC
No.



https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Tor_Hershman/info
ANDRE L
2014-02-18 10:57:35 UTC
Hameroff clearly fails to understand what a theory means in science. Where's his supporting evidence, and his method of testing for his claim, including a specific explanation of what would disprove his claim ?



Uh huh, just another lying snake oil religious con artist.



NDEs have been proven to be reactions to great physical stress, IOW, hallicunations.
?
2014-02-18 11:39:11 UTC
The aware study of doctor sam parnia is just as big my friend because parnia himself was skeptic who previously believed that Nde's were only a hallucination created by the brain.



It wasn't until he was able to actually document them in his big aware experiment that he now believes in an afterlife. His change of mind caught the dogmatic pseudo-skeptic mentally unstable atheist/pseudo skeptic community by surprise and naturally because they are dogmatic and anti scientific like almost all the atheists here on yahoo answers, instead of acknowledging that the evidence was stronger then ever for a soul and the afterlife existing they ridiculed him and attacked him with all sorts of ad hom's.

http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2013/03/interview-with-near-death-researcher.html



During the interview, Dr. Parnia said the patients he has studied are not just having "near-death experiences", they are having "actual death experiences". They have been clinically dead for "minutes if not hours". The fact that some patients have memories of what was happening around them during that time is proof that consciouses survives death. Wendybird commented that at the outset of the research Parnia seemed skeptical but while conducting this research he became convinced that the afterlife is real.

...

Parnia refers to his cases in the AWARE study as “actual death experiences” (ADEs), because “they have objectively died for minutes if not hours”. He explains that these people “really were dead”, they were corpses, i.e., they had no heart beat, no brain function – they were actually dead, “not clinically dead, not nearly dead”, no playing around with the meaning of the words, as Parnia put it.

Regarding reversing death, Parnia explained that the medicine has progressed so far that now the dead can be resuscitated “many hours” after death. The decay of cells is a process that begins after death occurs (both heart and brain function cease). There’s a window of about 8 hours in which “brain cells are still viable, but not functioning.” That’s the key here – brain cells are NOT FUNCTIONING. After that window expires, they are so damaged they cannot be revived again. Parnia realizes that if we’d had the technology and knowledge we do today to reverse the death process, that when the Titanic sank in 1912, we’d have been able to revive many of the 1500 that died in the freezing waters of the North Atlantic – especially because the cold temperatures slow the decay of brain cells and keep them viable for hours (when the rescue ship Carpathia arrived, those people had only been in the water for two hours, within the 8-hour window to get the brain functioning again).

“We have millions and millions of people now who have essentially gone to the other side, beyond the threshold of death, they’ve entered what would have been considered the afterlife period, and they’re coming back and telling us what they experienced.” He compares it to our ability now to send men to the moon who can come back and tell us about it. We now routinely overcome death, and the people he’s studying are “like astronauts – we send them out to explore this other dimension” – they are going to the other side, and they’re able to tell us what they’ve experienced on the other side of death – “is there an afterlife and what shape does it take, and that’s a new science that’s evolving for us.”

...

In Parnia’s interview on Skeptiko a year or so ago, prior to the AWARE study, he seemed still to be on the fence, a bit skeptical of NDEs, even hinting he thought it was some effect of the brain. He even had proponents wondering if Parnia was setting up AWARE to fail... However, from hearing the NPR interview and this C2C interview, after reviewing in depth the ADE cases in his study, Parnia now clearly is convinced that consciousness continues to exist in some form after the heart and brain have ceased to function.
anonymous
2014-02-18 10:51:23 UTC
Quantum information distributed to the universe at large is pretty much the opposite of a soul.



Do you read before you cut and paste?



And, not being able to disprove an unfalsifiable theory, doesn't make it "viable."



Final note....if science, naturalism, and materialism are as useless and deluded as you claim....why do you incessantly appeal to them to validate your imagined metaphysical claims?



Science can't be "useless" when it proves you wrong, but then transform into "infallible" when it fails to prove you wrong.
anonymous
2014-02-18 16:30:19 UTC
Orch-Or theory sounds like the kind of things atheists/materialists like to make up. The latest trend is to explain the inexplicable by saying "Quantum Daddy did it!"
PaulCyp
2014-02-18 11:02:14 UTC
Nope. The soul is supernatural. Scientists are restricted to the study of the natural universe. Supernatural/Spiritual realities are totally outside the purview of science.
Lekatt
2014-02-21 03:40:45 UTC
Yes. The more consciousness is researched the more evidence of a spirit or soul is found. Don't worry about the religious doctrine. Just try to be nice to people.
Greg
2014-02-18 10:49:52 UTC
Interesting idea.



But there is no science there. No experimentation. No evidence. Purely theoretical speculation. So while interesting.... certainly not proof of much other than the existence of a hypothesis.
?
2014-02-18 10:50:46 UTC
I don't think this is a surprise, physical information cannot be lost.



The physical information contained in your cells will exist in some capacity after your death, if you choose to call that a "soul" so be it.



Edit: Why is this being downvoted? This is like elementary science. I think I am being misconstrued as agreeing with the OP, which is not the case.
Sly Phi AM
2014-02-18 10:51:30 UTC
Just using the word 'quantum' doesn't make your pseudoscience any more real.



Information simply can't exist without matter or energy.



Fail.
SeaTurtle
2014-02-18 10:58:13 UTC
Let's try this one more time.



Near-death does not equal death. Got it? Therefore this proves NOTHING.
anonymous
2014-02-18 11:07:09 UTC
scientist believes in reincarnation. According to Darwin, a snake wished to fly in air, that means same snakes born again and again to develop flying qualities in him. And finally he became bird. This is what modern science believes. Scientist clearly denies the concept of reincarnation but at this stage indirectly they must have to accept the concept of rebirth
?
2014-02-18 10:49:08 UTC
That's a hypothesis - where is the proof.



'To date, there is no experimental confirmation of these proposed methods of shielding.....'



Source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Hameroff
?
2014-02-18 10:49:26 UTC
...Scientists Do Not Need To Prove That The Mind And The Spirit Exists...
?
2014-02-18 10:49:35 UTC
hameroff and Penrose have done BRILLIANT work but that doesn't mean godditit. if anything it's made my lack of belief even stronger.
?
2014-02-18 10:51:34 UTC
No. The soul is simply a person's life force.
?
2014-02-18 10:51:27 UTC
not the Atheist scientists

it's against their belief system
?
2014-02-18 10:51:34 UTC
No. They aren't.


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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