Religious people: How do you defend your religion against these arguments? (No offense intended, looking for rational answers)?

Question

I'm only looking for answers that a skepticist (like myself) can comprehend -- "I simply believe" isn't the type of thing I'm looking for. I'm hoping to hear a rational and reasonable answer, please and thanks. No offense intended.

Also, question 1 only applies to the two biggest religions (Islam/Christianity) and therefore if you aren't of either of those religions then I suppose it wouldn't apply to you.

1) How do you defend the fact that religion needs the threat of hell to flourish? There's a saying I once heard that I think does have some interesting applicability to religion: "If you need violence to enforce your ideas, then your ideas are worthless." In my mind, if religion was genuinely good, benevolent and deserving of human worship, then it should not need the coercion of eternal damnation to extract obedience. "People wouldn't follow it if it didn't exist" -- then that means that the religion isn't worship-worthy. Now, if you're the person whose religious beliefs are independent of the threat of hell, then that's great, but I'm largely convinced that without the threat of hell, atheism would be prominent. How do you defend the usage of coercion in religion?

2) How can you answer for the fact that religion is unfalsifiable (made impossible to prove or disprove)? If religion and god are real, then why is it that God has made verification entirely impossible? I'm pretty sure we would follow god and religion more devoutly, proudly and faithfully if we could verify.

Answer 1

1) How do you defend the fact that religion needs the threat of hell to flourish? There's a saying I once heard that I think does have some interesting applicability to religion: "If you need violence to enforce your ideas, then your ideas are worthless." In my mind, if religion was genuinely good, benevolent and deserving of human worship, then it should not need the coercion of eternal damnation to extract obedience. "People wouldn't follow it if it didn't exist" -- then that means that the religion isn't worship-worthy. Now, if you're the person whose religious beliefs are independent of the threat of hell, then that's great, but I'm largely convinced that without the threat of hell, atheism would be prominent. How do you defend the usage of coercion in religion?



To answer this question, I don't believe that hell was ever an intention for man. Man's original sin in the garden separated man from God.



2) How can you answer for the fact that religion is unfalsifiable (made impossible to prove or disprove)? If religion and god are real, then why is it that God has made verification entirely impossible? I'm pretty sure we would follow god and religion more devoutly, proudly and faithfully if we could verify.



God is not falsifiable. Science proves many creation stories. Scientists have recently proved that creation had a starting date. It wasn't something that just randomly happened through development.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJioWKPlBIw

Also, science has proven that there was a great flood. How do you explain a frozen wooly mammoth on the top of one of the highest mountain peaks, perfectly preserved.

Remains of the Ark can be found on Mt. Arat.

There are countless proofs that creation is real. Do some research and you will find all the evidence you need.

Answer 2

Let me start off by saying this. I was going to not answer any questions. I have not been on Yahoo Answers in a long time. The reason I stopped by was because I received a new answer to a question I asked a long time ago, even though I realized it was probably just a spam answer I still popped over here out of curiosity, which then led me to read some question on the R & S forum. Then I read your question, I was just going to walk away and just not answer because it just seems like a waste just answering these types of questions. But I just couldn't walk away for some reason so I had to type something. Because for whatever reason my faith in God is real, and I do care about people and I don't want anyone to be separated from God so I felt I at least had to give some type of answer. So...

Question 1) - Would there be more atheists if the threat of Hell did not exist? I don't know, maybe but what I do know is that my faith is not based on the threat of it. I have pondered atheism, and other religions briefly, but every time I always come back to Biblical Christianity. There is just something in side of me that says, no screams there has to be some type of creator being. But also something tells me things are not the way they are supposed to be, it is just a gut feeling that although overall my life is OK but still I just know that this can't be all there is, and no amount of money or power would solve that longing. So I turned to Biblical Christianity which says that we as a human race have rebelled against our creator, and we deserve to be eternally separated from him. However he has provided a way through the blood atonement of the Son's sacrifice. In that through his death burial and resurrection we cane be made new creatures in Christ through repentance and putting out trust and hope in him and him alone.



Question 2) - To me it is verifiable. Like I said earlier, I have pondered atheism, and try as I might I just cannot wrap my mind around it, I just don't have that kind of "faith".

Answer 3

1) How do you defend the fact that religion needs the threat of hell to flourish? There's a saying I once heard that I think does have some interesting applicability to religion: "If you need violence to enforce your ideas, then your ideas are worthless." In my mind, if religion was genuinely good, benevolent and deserving of human worship, then it should not need the coercion of eternal damnation to extract obedience. "People wouldn't follow it if it didn't exist" -- then that means that the religion isn't worship-worthy. Now, if you're the person whose religious beliefs are independent of the threat of hell, then that's great, but I'm largely convinced that without the threat of hell, atheism would be prominent. How do you defend the usage of coercion in religion?



Shortly after I became a Christian I met a young lady who asked about becoming a Christian. I was new and told her I was afraid to answer since I was only learning, being new. She said hat she just wanted to be a Christian. It was a part of who she wanted to be. As far as I went, I became a Christian because I was desperate, nothing else worked for me so I thought I would give God a try, I just had to find out which god was the right one, if any. It wasn't about hell, though I did think about it. But I figured if there was no God, then why worry about hell? If there was no God, then there probably wasn't a hell. So your "fact" doesn't seem right to me. Maybe you were talking to other people?





2) How can you answer for the fact that religion is unfalsifiable (made impossible to prove or disprove)? If religion and god are real, then why is it that God has made verification entirely impossible? I'm pretty sure we would follow god and religion more devoutly, proudly and faithfully if we could verify.



God is esoteric. He meant to do it that way. He doesn't want everybody.

Answer 4

You can't. Religion equals:



1. Why should they join? Free gift: Eternal life for worship.



2. What if they you don't want the free gift? Make them fear punishment instead.



3. Hey we can't prove this and there'll never be any proof: Tell them they have to have faith to get the free gift or face the punishment.



Okay then, that's a real plan. Lets create a few stories and sell it so we can be in charge.



But what if no one believes the stories? Well, they will, we will create a story first that explains stuff they couldn't know like how everything got here and call it Genesis.



Cool dude. Can I make some of the stuff up for that?

Answer 5

.I cannot defend my religion where a belief of eternal damnation is a possibility. I don't know if hell is an unpleasant place or an actual place or a place of eternal separation from God where there is gnashing of teeth. There are many Christians who believe hell is real and scary so I am not going to say this is false reasoning . I don't know for sure. We can study and see that the Bible reports there is a hell. It is a part of the religion that some people have decided to withdraw belief in an angry Father where he is made in the image of man instead of the other way around. I don't know and it doesn't make sense to me because this means my pets do not worry about being tormented for stealing food from each other or hoarding fake mice under furniture or being gluttons and getting over weight . You would think God would not give animals an easy A in eternity based on their being smaller furry animals.

However, I take the just in case approach. I gamble on that I may not understand all there is to know about God. I don't live like there is no hell. I believe as you withdraw from the world it because less and less attractive. You grow less inclined to want to do things that might be offensive to God. It isn't that I think I will be roasted on a spittle forever. I think there is some continuance after this existence.

It is a gamble I am willing to take. I used to know people who preached against watching television or movies. I thought they were thought Nazis but after some time of reflection and consideration decided it was a waste of time to read non fiction and watch stupid mindless entertainment so it became unattractive to me . That is how God seems to work in my life. I lose interest in these things and we are always being reprogrammed by global interests to think some bizarre way. It is good if you can avoid it and find your own way to think your own thoughts.

As for providing actual facts for the existence of God .. it doesn't really matter to me. I have had faith and on some days , years or months I have doubted everything. I cant let it go . I can't stop believing in God . I read atheist literature and there is no life or energy in it. It is based in negativity and i want to be around positive, happy people. Some atheists are not like this but the ones online seem so jaded and bitter . I think I would avoid them at parties. There is nothing about anti theists that seems like a good thing.

Answer 6

These are great questions, and there are very good answers posted here. I remember coming to Christianity when I was enamored by the the love expressed to me by Christians. Seven years prior I heard a clear-cut hell speech that I suppose was intended to achieve what you assume in your first question, coercion by a sense of threat. It did nothing for me, and I quickly forgot about it. But the love that was shown me by an authentic, genuine group of believers drew me as love will draw anyone.



Love is love, and sometimes that's all you need. I don't believe or draw rational conclusions based on that experience, instead I am searching out the reasoning, the proof, and rationale of God and his love precisely because I had that experience, and many more like it. Fifteen years now, and I continue to search out and explore the meaning of God. I love it, and it is part of my life. But I'm not an agnostic because I'm an optimist. I like Jesus' words: If you seek me you will find me. That tells me I have potential--I have the capability of finding Him. Jesus and his teachings call me up--get up, stand up! They don't threaten me, scare me, or beat me into submission. So I go. I didn't wait to figure out the logic or reasoning of all the strange tenets of the Bible. Fifteen years, and I still don't have a doctrinal position or stance on what Hell is!! I can quote the verses, sure, but so what? One day soon, I will study it in depth and take into account the Greek, Hebrew, and other historical understandings and see if I can arrive at some kind of comprehension that satisfies me. And this I'll do because I'm already committed to searching out the Love of the universe. One thing I do know is that there are no stories in the New Testament of anyone coming to faith because of the threat of hell. Ironically, people came to faith by feeling threatened by the glory, goodness, power, and love that was manifested, and not any terrible thing.



Christianity is not a context or something you can just throw into a petri dish after all. It's a path and full of adventure, man!

Answer 7

Hi



1. Hell was not created by man, it was created by God. The Bible says He created it for Satan and his demons and that people will only go there if they fail to trust in Jesus



Since God made hell I don't see why I'm the one who has to defend it's existence. God is wiser than mortal man and He saw it fit to do it that way. You can question Him all you want but I choose to adapt to the way things are - the same way you would do what your professor tells you to do in order to pass or how you would do what a police officer tells you to do so you wouldn't go to jail. All I know is that it exists, near death experiences world wide have proven this time and again, and I'm not going to be a fool and deny it's existence because it doesn't suit my mortal reasoning



2. God's existence can be clearly seen by what has been created. Intelligent design is obvious, even to a child. Scientists will tell you that there are laws to how things work in the universe which had to have been set in place by an intelligent being



That is more than enough proof for God's existence if atheists would just be honest enough to acknowledge it as such



Btw, the realness of something doesn't depend on how much sense it makes to us. If that were the case then we could make things vanish that didn't make sense to us. Either something is or it isn't, and this is not determined by our reasoning

Answer 8

"I'm only looking for answers that a skepticist (like myself) can comprehend"

No offense here: are you capable of comprehending that not all answer make sense to you because you simply don't know what it is like to be that person who is giving you a personal account of their faith?



1)

My religion does not need the threat of hell to flourish. What my religion needs is less knuckleheads trying to force their weight around like idiots on a rampage. Once you prove your religion is of peace and guidance, you will have more willing followers and you will have encouragement.



"If you need violence to enforce your ideas, then your ideas are worthless."

I agree 100%. However, it's is a common misconception that everyone holds the same belief about hell ... which they don't.



As a Christian answer: Many Catholics believe in purgatory; some Protestants believe that Hell is reserved for the most wicked of wicked and that sins of non believers are also forgiven if they lived a good life. Some believe that hell is the grave like Jews do.



Christianity doesn't extract obedience through eternal damnation, it doesn't require pure obedience at all, just a good life like everyone follows anyway. Do love; don't harm ... simple (well it should be simple). Just because there is hell, it does not mean that a god was not genuinely good, benevolent and deserving of human worship.



I doubt that a threat will convince anyone of the validity of a religion. It's more than just the simplification of a religion into punishment and reward. Personally, I see more people seeing the punishment as a force to stop them doing evil rather than coercing them into the religion. Although, I reckon that if you need religion to stop you doing bad ... well there is a massive problem right there (but most don't).



Over simplification of the human condition lead people to convince themselves of their own theories. Hell is not the reason people believe ... in fact it's probably quite the opposite. As a result I doubt that Atheism would be the dominant / prominent stance.



I don't have to defend any such coercion because it's simply not the reason for faith and people being in a religion. If anything keeps a person in a religion (even an atheist), it would be the threat from knuckleheads who don't follow their religions doctrine of peace (usually through ignorance) ... this threat can be anywhere from psychological to physical (and just to point out, I know an atheist who said he would disown his daughter if she were to ever become a theist .. he classifies theists as idiots and completely irrational and free from any ability to think for themselves)





2)

There is no easy answer to this. But the simplest form is a true test of faith. Of course everyone would know God exists and follow him more devoutly, proudly and faithfully if he presented himself in physical form ... well then again maybe not. There are still people who say there was no moon landing even when presented with fact. There is no need to scientifically prove or disprove a deity. The point to religion is to have faith that you are being guided by a higher power. Sure it absolutely doesn't make sense unless you are within the religion, but there is a fundamental underlying feeling that guides you.



Not everything is dependent of the physical but could be dependent on the emotional and intangible. Verification is not entirely impossible, but that also depends on how you search and what you are searching for. If you're looking for the physical, you won't find anything.

Answer 9

Prophecy verifies. Pay attention to what is coming true now. It is in world headlines every day.



The world is in the End Times prior to the Last Days. It is becoming more and more as it was in the days of Noah with violence and constant anarchy.

4 FUTURE WARS (the catching away of true Christians happens just before this)

Isaiah 17:1, 14 will happen any day now. (the destruction of Damascus)

1. There will soon be an Islamic war against Israel led by Russia, Iran and thier armies. This army consists of Russia and the Islamic countries listed in Ezekiel 38:1-6. Ezekiel 39:1-12 describes that war where millions intend to attack Israel BUT GOD intervenes and kills all but 1/6th of them. Revelation 14:20 describes the place of battle as being filled with blood up to the horses' bridles for 184 miles. (Russian warships are stationed off the coast miles. (Russian warships are stationed off the coast of Israel even now) This is the Gog/Magog war NOT Armageddon which happens at the END of the 7 years of Tribulation. The 7 vial judgments of Rev. 15 come AFTER this war. WATCH THE HEADLINES.

NOTE: Persia changed their name to Iran in 1935. http://www.joel2army.simplesite.com

Answer 10

You have a lot of answers here. Some are right, most are not. Most people think Hell is a fiery torment. An you are correct, preachers and religious leaders try to scare people into thinking that if they do wrong that's where they are going. I used to believe that until I studied the Bible for myself. The Bible DOES NOT TEACH THAT AT ALL!! If you don't' study the Bible then you believe what people tell you. God is a God of love. Why would he torment someone forever in fire. If that was his goal, he would have told us in the Bible. If people are disobedient, he just destroys them. We see that in Noah's day and in Sodom and Gomorrah. The people were just destroyed. No where do you read that they burned in fire forever. So that is a false teaching.



If you like this answer then email me and I can answer the other one for you.

Answer 11

I'm hoping to hear a rational and reasonable answer,



- You won't find on this forum.



"If you need violence to enforce your ideas, then your ideas are worthless."



- Well said, but you can rally more people around a common hatred or fear. Also, hell never existed until the church made it up, purgatory and limbo came from Dante's Inferno in the 1300's, the church made up anything they needed to scare people. The primitive or uneducated mind can be easily scared.



How can you answer for the fact that religion is unfalsifiable (made impossible to prove or disprove)



- Religion is a belief system and is not subject to being proven or disproven, BUT what it is based on "IS" a proven fantasy.

Answer 12

1.) Hell still exists whether people try to use it for power tactics or not. Now the idea of hell that people float around is not correct. Hell is simply a level of consciousness away from the supreme being ( God, the Universe, Natural Law, whatever). All the fire and brimstone and eternal damnation is not hell. Now since hell is a consciousness, someone might be able to create their own hell to look like these things. But eventually everyone will get out of hell by atoning for their sins.



2.) Religion is definitely fallible. Religion was created for people who had no religion. Almost like a step towards being civilized. Just like laws are for people who need structure. Religion is a stepping stone that eventually every person will come out of. God (supreme being, the universe, whatever) did not create religion. These prophets at the head of religions were sent to bring a higher understanding, but people based ideas off of their lives versus their actual message.



I have a blog, check it out: deewimley.weebly.com.

Answer 13

1) I"m Catholic and believes in the existence of heaven and hell. But I don't see hell as a threat. A scare tactic to be a good person. I just look at Heaven as being my goal of eternal life, of wanting to meet my Creator and living with Him forever after this life on earth. I understand I am a sinner, it's hard not to be from time to time. If anyone says opposite isn't living in reality. My opinion. I don't know for sure if I'll end up in heaven. but I don't think about hell. Just about God.



2) Religion isn't about proving or disproving. It's about having faith. Believing without seeing God. That's what Faith is. I don't remain Catholic just because my parents raised me to be one. I left the Church for 15 yrs but never stopped believing in God. I returned 12 yrs ago after a suicide attempt. I have read about some other religions. I am Catholic to date because I trust the history of the Church and the people that started it. I believe Jesus is the Messiah promised by YHWH. He is Lord and Savior. I respect some other religions. If I was born to Jewish parents I might be and remain Jewish now. If I was born to Buddhist parents or atheists, I would be that, perhaps. But I am not blind in my faith. I still have questions about the Bible and religion. Life's big questions. And am always searching for answers. But I will always believe in God a Creator of the Universe.

Answer 14

1) People are different. Some act properly out of fear of punishment. Some act properly out of respect for the law. Others just love being proper. The concept of hell is needed for the first type of people. What God will eventually do to people, good or bad, is His decision and no one esle's.



2) Of course, religious people think there is proof everywhere. It is inductive proof by inference. Our experience tells us that everything needs a maker. It is ridiculous to imagine that a tree fell in a river and decided to form a boat out of itself. So, the maker of the universe is God. This is not sufficient for most people. You are asking for a direct deductive logic proof. There is none. That is why religions ask for faith. The question is which religion to follow. The answer is the one that no logical contradictions within itself (self consistent) and no contradictions with proven facts (not just theories).

Answer 15

A person serves the Almighty God out of love, not morbid fear: 1st John 5:3 For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome, 4



Many have misconstrued "hell" to mean an eternal place of firery torment. However, the Bible tells us that those in hell, or better the grave, are dead; Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the Grave gave up the dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds.



Humans-with healthy minds-want to live forever, yet we die. Romans 5:12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned



There is no doubt the world is a wicked place. Jehovah, the Almighty God promises soon there will be a world of peace; Psalm 46:9 He is bringing an end to wars throughout the earth.

He breaks the bow and shatters the spear;

He burns the military wagons with fire.



We put faith in Jehovah God, and we then have joy, not morbid fear.

This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.



When we come to know Jehovah God, and his son Jesus Christ, this means everlasting life; John 17:3;

Answer 16

Peace be with you,

Your questions begin with false premises and so your assertions are also false.

You generalize that all faiths, especially those under the general headings of Christianity and Islam use the threat of hell as their central them and that simply is not true.



Your lack of knowledge of these religions do not make the religions incorrect, but only make your belief of what they teach incorrect.



Religion is nor impossible to prove. The existence of religion is very easily proven. Even the existence of God can be established through reasoning. Just because you have not had the opportunity to investigate the existence God with someone capable of explaining it rationally does not mean it cannot be accomplished. Once again your own lack of knowledge does not make your deeply flawed question valid.



Perhaps you post valid questions that were minus the flawed premises so that you could seek a valid response.



As an example you could ask "What role does hell play in Christianity" without the incorrect assumption that it play a central role.

Answer 17

Well, I am a Christian and one of Jehovah's Witnesses so I don't believe in Hell. I do believe as the Bible does state that those that do not believe in Jesus Christ will have everlasting destruction, meaning everlasting nothingness, or, you are no more, nothing, nada, gone, like the flame of a candle, out. God is love so having people burn for all time is a human invention to make people go to church and give $. I never fell for it.



Religion has nothing to do with Jehovah God. He is the one that is worshiped, not the religion. As an example: if everyone worshiped Jehovah God the way He has it in the Bible, there wouldn't be religions cause all would worship Him as He says, there's only one way, the truth, how He has it for us in the Bible. I have people ask me this all the time and everyone has to understand that God gave us a choice to believe in Him or not. Faith comes into play and the Bible is full of examples of people that had Faith. There is a Scripture that reads: (Matthew 5:3) “Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need, since the Kingdom of the heavens belongs to them." Most people have a spiritual need just like most humans want to live forever, we don't want to die. If Adam had not eaten from the tree of good and bad, our lives would be very different today. It will go back to His original Plan for mankind though, after Armageddon.



Sorry this is so long but you asked. As for proof of Him, well, we are here, it's not rocket science, it's very easy to understand but it's up to each person to chose for themselves. I am here, alive, because He created me. I am the proof cause I am here. So are you and everything else. The planet itself is proof cause it's here. It is a scientific fact that nothing comes from nothing. Soon Satan will have his 2nd battle with Jesus Christ and that is what Armageddon is, he will loose and Christ will rule the earth for 1,000 years and we'll live the life we were to have before Adam messed up. See, God's original purpose for the Earth and mankind will come to be, with or without many people, I chose to be one that is with Him. jw.org

Answer 18

1)If there's no heaven or no hell,will we still submit ourself to His will?

If He never created the universe and anyone of us,is He still God?

Thing is,we see committing ourself to a particular religion as an option. If religion truly an option,then as humans

who has so many desires to be fulfilled,not being part of any religion is the best option.

God created the universe,God put us in this universe and God made heaven and hell as our final dwelling place.

Through His messengers(prophet Muhammad,prophet Jesus etc..) He set the rules for mankind of how to go about our daily lives.

Now that we are already here,to undo ourself is not an option,to relieve ourself from this universe is not an option. Like it or not,we are bound by this rule. Some people took the easy way out,and choose not to believe.

Other mindful people,choose to live life by the rules as laid down by God.

Since science cannot prove that hell didn't exist,the very existence of hell is a 50-50 chance. Should you choose to live your life obeying Gods rule,you have a 50% chance of going to heaven,0% chance of going to hell.

If you choose to be ignorant,there's a 50% chance you'll end up hell,and 0% of ever make it to heaven,ever.

Simple maths made difficult by atheists. Do consider looking up Islam in your search for the truth.

Answer 19

First of all God is not calling everyone at this time, but many are called but not all are chosen.

As for hell, hell is not what most Christianity thinks it is. Hell just simply means grave look below took from strong H7585

H7585

שׁאל שׁאול

she'ôl she'ôl

sheh-ole', sheh-ole'

From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.



It is not a place of punishment; it is where all go when they die till the resurrection. There are 3 resurrections you will find the first 2 talked about in revelation.



Rev_20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



Rev_20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.



At this time Satan will be chained for he can’t device the world any more.



Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.



When the first resurrection tacks place they will be resurrected spiritually and will rule with God on the earth a thousand years. They are resurrected first because they have overcome and came out of the ways of this world in there human life and will teach them that are still alive at the time of Jesus return.



After the 1000 years the second resurrect will take place and then the books (bible) will be opened to them for about a 100 years we think there are verses that hint to that, and then Satan will be unchained for a short season to go out and deceive again.



Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.



Your question in a nut shell, there is much more info on the link.



As for proving the bible that will take some reading on your part read page 293 of the book Mystery of the ages chapter 7 Mystery Of the Kingdom of God then go to page 296 and read to 302. You will Have your answer weather the bible is right, and then check what it says against history, then ask your self has it happen?



You will then have your answer. If you have eyes to see and ears to hear. the bottom link takes you to that book.



Eze_12:2 Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.

Answer 20

I do not believe in some kind of afterlife that is entered upon dying - whether heaven or torment in hell. I never have, and neither have many others. While many atheists claim to be knowledgeable of the BIble, somehow this escapes, it seems, 90 plus %. I wonder how they can claim to be knowledgeable being so ignorant.



Job 14:12, And man that has lain down in death shall certainly not rise again till the heaven be dissolved, and they shall not awake from their sleep. (AB)

Jeremiah 51:39 In their heat I will set them drink: and I will make them drunk, that they may slumber, and sleep an everlasting sleep, and awake no more, saith the Lord. (DRC)

Psalms 39:13, "O spare me, that I may recover strength, before I go hence, and be no more. (KJV)



2. It just bogs the imagination that people reject the existence of a creator. You honestly do not, and never will, believe that your car, computer, furniture, tooth pick (simplest thing I can think of that is easily identified as having an intelligent maker behind it) made themselves, and if someone professed this belief you would probably support the notion that they be admitted to some special facility where people wear white coats and have white walled rooms, or such.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4



I think it is pretty well established and falsifiable that cars do not make themselves, no matter how many billions of years you provide the experiment. I have yet to see one in the archaeological finds. Wouldn't that be some news! "Fossilized car found - clearly made itself - 4 billion years old."



Thus your demand for falsification actually is part of the false and error filled logic of those who believe in this theory. It simply means that you have closed your mind and your heart to the simple truth of our reality: namely, that we live in a cause and effect universe.



Your belief in a Big Bang is already fraught with problems. If you check this link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baryon_asymmetry), it says, "The Big Bang should have produced equal amounts of matter and antimatter. "



So nothing exploded in a Big Bang and this should have fizzled out by cancelling equal amounts of matter and antimatter giving us exactly nothing. Yet, you believe that because we exist, obviously something caused some imbalance to happen because (proof of this is) we exist! What kind of utter nonsense is this, utter illogic. Instead, I believe that if a Big Bang did happen that this was orchestrated by God in a manner that caused this orderly universe that has all its properties fine tuned for life.



Your belief system is bankrupt, yet ! you refuse to acknowledge this. Be my guest. Scripture tells us, that all (includes Chrisitans) shall reap what they sow.



Hope you sow wisely.

Answer 21

First off, I wish to thank you for asking these questions. It gives me a nice excuse to reflect on what I firmly believe in. ;)



One

"If you need violence to enforce your ideas, then your ideas are worthless." Oh dear... So, why do we have laws than? We have laws to make sure our system of society is maintained. For simple reasons, next to all good of man, we have all bad of man. That's just the way it is... We have good and evil amongst it.



Now, I understand if this is a bit to simple for your reasoning. So, lets go into it a bit deeper. When God started off with Israel there where no rules. It's as simple as that. The people of Israel than began to mess up. Doing all sorts of things God did not want. This is when God started to enforce the rules. These rules became know as the 10 commandments.



Did Israel listen? For a while, but than the went about there way again. What do you do if your children are not listing ? Indeed. You find ways to enforce the rules. Punishment being one of them.



A long story short, God kept on sending people to tell off when the Israeli's did the wrong ways. Till he finally had enough, and basically said, Now look here, this is the way we are going to do it, or I am going to send you to your room... ehm send to hell...





Two

Well, God IS real... He sent many people to tell so. He Himself went off to convince people ( with success ) He is real... ( Abraham for instance ) He even allowed his Son, Jesus, the one they call saviour, to perform miricals and what not. But yet, I believe it was St Peter who asked a simulair question. The answer of Jesus was simple. I have been here, all these people have seen what I did. Yet some still refuse to believe. What more do you want ?



If you have all the evidence sustainable in court, still people will refuse to believe. There's only so much you can do about it.





I hope these answers help you to some satisfaction.

Answer 22

1) Religion for the most part, and i assume you are talking about Christianity since you said God, isnt contingent on hell keeping its followers. Though that is a big thing most of its followers want to avoid many enjoy worshiping God because of the positive aspects. In worshiping God he blesses you. Also God promises his believers that he will never leave nor forsake them. Thats a big deal. It feels good to know that there is someone as powerful as God watching your back. God created us. Gave us a whole planet. Is he benevolent? Yes, for example, if im a child and my mother says i cant have sweets tonight of course i would feel as though she is anything but perfect. With God he may disapprove and he has even punished people in the past as stated in the bible but it was usually to save them not just needless violence. But he displayed his love through Jesus. Jesus is God in the flesh and he payed the punishment of sin so no one else would have to ever again which brings us to your second question.



2) The reason why religion is fallible is because humans made religion. God desires a relationship not a religion. Religion and sometimes its doctrines are flawed or contradictory because they are made and developed by people with flaws. God simply wants us to have faith which is why he doesn't just show himself. He desires that we believe on him, his son and to love him and each other. He could easily come down from heaven and make us but that would bring us back to question one, people following through fear rather then devotion.



I hope this helped.

Answer 23

1) “One accusation against Christianity was that it prevented men, by morbid tears and terrors, from seeking joy and liberty in the bosom of Nature. But another accusation was that it comforted men with a fictitious providence, and put them in a pink-and-white nursery... One rationalist had hardly done calling Christianity a nightmare before another began to call it a fool's paradise. This puzzled me; the charges seemed inconsistent. Christianity could not at once be the black mask on a white world, and also the white mask on a black world. The state of the Christian could not be at once so comfortable that he was a coward to cling to it, and so uncomfortable that he was a fool to stand it. If it falsified human vision it must falsify it one way or another; it could not wear both green and rose-coloured spectacles.” - Excerpt From: GK Chesterton. “Orthodoxy.” (1908)



2) "Atheism is indeed the most daring of all dogmas, for it is the assertion of a universal negative.” - Excerpt From: GK Chesterton, “Twelve Types.” (1902)



Sorry if that seems insincere, I quote Chesterton a lot because I find that it's possible to answer literally any question from any sceptic in the entire world from any point in history by quoting him...

Answer 24

I do not know what Our Lord Jesus means to you, but I can rationally tell you he talked twice as much about hell than heaven. Hell is mentioned over 500 times in the bible. Okay aside from that I assume rational people have open minds, so I will tell you that if you are not a believer of the Holy Trinity and you have not given your heart over enough in prayer and tried in prayer to walk the journey of faith, praying, reading scripture, attending Mass, and being a blessing then your feet or mind haven't gotten wet yet in the vast pouring out of the amazing grace you will receive when your a follower of Christ Jesus. The apostles them selves slowly began to understand more, and only after Jesus paid the price for all of us and sent the Holy Spirit down on the believers, did they come to know Jesus in full. The apostles used to pray "Lord help my unbelief!" You should too. Theirs much to learn Sir, your soul needs watering!

Answer 25

1.) Hell is not what you think it is. You see, people in hell are unconscious (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10). Those scriptures that supposedly back up eternal torment are simply parables. How do I know this? Because pain is to be done away with (Revelation 21:3, 4 compare also Isaiah 14:3). If you cannot be pained, how can you be tormented? Take a look at the Christian religion, Jehovah's Witnesses. We know hell is not a place of torment but we flourish. Last year we baptized more then 200.000. And we regularly do that.

2.) We can offer you verifiable evidence that Jehovah exists. Holy spirit is one way we can prove He exists. Check out Galatians 5 verses 22 and 23 and then compare it to our congregations. John 13:35 says that by love you will know Christ's disciples. You will see love, if you go to the kingdom hall of Jehovah's Witnesses during our meetings. There is much more proof that Jehovah exists. Just tell us why you do not believe in Him and we will help you see Him.

Answer 26

1) Calling it a fact doesn't make it one. There's a saying for everything it doesn't help your point. No one is telling you to worship religion so half your paragraph is totally missing the point of religion so I will simply discard it.



2) God can definitely be proven. Look and He is there, Listen and you will hear Him, Learn(anything) and you will come to know Him. Move and He has moved, Love and He has loved, Create and He has created. He is very much alive and present and in fact is the only thing that is present. He is the only thing that we can verify. The only problem is that you choose not to see yourself or rather choose to look outside of existence for God.

Answer 27

The fact that you use the phrase, "religious people" proves right off that you do not know what you're talking about. By "religious people," you're referring to Christians, quite obviously. But in actual fact, you do not know what religion is: You use Christianity as your model for religion, and that is a big mistake because Christianity no longer qualifies as religion, as of a long, long time ago. Jesus brought the ancient teachings of India, Nepal, and Tibet (where He spent 18 years) but over the centuries, various egotists have put on costumes and changed the teachings to suit them. Your first question about "hell" doesn't work because the concept of "eternal damnation" is something that the Vatican invented, and therefore is not a part of religion itself. They invented that to control people, but controlling people is not what religion itself is about. 2) You made the ignorant statement, "Why is it that God has made verification entirely impossible?" That is not true at all. YOU made that one up! The actual existence of God can be verified through the "science" of meditation and "pranayam" (life-force control). But God is not verifiable through the Christian tradition. Your post is actually a rant against Christianity, and that's fine, but stop referring to it as "religion." You do not know what religion is, and that's fairly widespread here on Y/A. Many criticize religion while not knowing what it is. There is a reference to the evidence of God's existence in The Book of Revelation (a book that no Christian is able to understand). It refers to "the Amen," as "the faithful and true witness." The word "witness" here means "evidence." OM or AUM is the sound heard in very deep meditation. That's where the word, "Amen" came from. But Christians know nothing about this, and will even argue against what I've said here. Why? Because the old knowledge has been lost and forgotten. If you want to know what religion is, study the ancient Vedic ("Hindu") tradition of India. I don't mean the habits or little rituals that the peasants have developed over the centuries. If you do that, then you'll just find something ELSE to criticize. I mean the ancient teachings that are found in The Srimad Bhagavatam or the in Upanishads or the Ramayana or the Mahabharata, and so on. Then learn to meditate deeply and THEN you can come back here to Y/A answers and talk about religion because then you'll know what it is. You'll know that religion is NOT about belief. It's about finding out, it's about acquiring knowledge through actual (mystical) experience. You see, I'm, as you put it, one of the "religious people," but I'm not a Christian. You couldn't pay me enough to be a Christian because it's a very empty way of life. All they have are big buildings (churches), men in costumes, and a lot of "we believe." That's religion?? NO! You need to learn what religion is, and you need to stop confusing Christianity with religion, and you should take what I say seriously because there are countless people like yourself (even on youtube) who do not know the difference. Many atheists do not know the difference, either ...

Answer 28

In 1989 scientists drilled into the earths crust about 14 km and hit a large air pocket. They then dropped a microphone down into it and recorded what it heard. It sure sounded like hell to me. Scariest thing I have ever heard. If anyone wants to hear it, there are videos on Youtube where you can listen .I sure don't want to know what is down there' nor do I want to spend an eternity there.

Answer 29

1.Just as crime has its' certainty of human punishment by the laws of the

land, sin has its' certainty of punishment by God. Christianity is God's

way of offering the sinner a complete pardon for their sins. When someone warns you about hell for unrepentant sin, it is not without remedy. When all you concentrate on is the hell part, you ignore the escape

clause that comes with it. Sometimes the fault may lie with the presentation or lack of the way to escape hell that often turns people off.



2. Apparently the God of Christianity is not "unfalsifiable" to the billions

of people that have found out the truth of him in the last 2,000yrs. People from all nations and all walks of life; rich, poor, educated and not.

God wants those that want him. His word says, "If you seek me you will find me." Your problem is, you want to know God under your terms, not his. No offense intended.

Answer 30

I'd like to answer these initial two questions, coming from the position of a Christian.



However, the questions are slightly off-kilter. Christianity does not "need" the threat of Hell to flourish. The basis of Christianity is that all have sinned, and, because of this, deserve punishment in Hell. However, God does not want us to be punished, so He sent Jesus to die for all, to take the punishment, so we can be with Him forever in Heaven, if we accept and believe what Christ has done. That is, in essence, the basis of Christianity.



Hell exists because God is a God of justice. Wrong-doing must have consequences. It is wrong to just turn a blind eye to crime/sin. It must be punished. Hell is that punishment. But Heaven is what we have when we accept Christ as Saviour. Through all this, I certainly don't believe we should ignore the concept of Hell, but I do believe people certainly use it too much as a way of trying to scare people into belief. I know, for me, the promise of Heaven is much more of a drawer card for me than the fear of going to Hell.



To the second question... I will narrow it down to why has God has made it entirely impossible to verify His existence (I think that's an accurate summation of part of the question? Asking about just "religion" is very general). Well, has He made it impossible? What would convince people that God is real? An angel visiting them? A shout from the sky? I have no doubt that, no matter what God did, no matter how obvious He made it, there would still be people who would ignore such an act. I have seen enough "pointing at black and saying it's white" people to come to that conclusion. They see something that's 100% clear, right under their noses, but they deny it. It's a part of human nature.



To me, speaking personally, I look around at the world and see that someone must have created it. I cannot accept that it just happened randomly. That makes no sense to me. And the Bible has convinced me that the God of the Bible did the creating. I also look at other parts of the Bible, and the history of the Bible itself. I also speak of my own personal experiences. No, I've never faced any gobsmacking, amazing miracles. But I have had enough of my own experiences to be convinced that the God I believe in is at work in my life.



I'm just speaking for myself, of course, but, in that way, I believe God has proven to me that He exists, over and over again.

Answer 31

The bible says that Jesus started a way to live and not a religion. Religion is a man made concept. The church was a group of people and not a building. The group of people would sit around and talk about what they knew or were taught by Jesus or His apostles. Jesus told of where people went who did not love others. The rich man and the beggar was one story where the rich man died and went to a place that was not fun where the rich man was very thirsty, but the poor beggar was in a wonderful

place because he accepted his place and never said a cross word to anyone. Jesus did not threaten anyone with hell and so just said that no one goes to the Father (who is in heave) except through the Son (Jesus who died for the sins of man).

God does not want anyone to have to believe on Him and so gives faith to those who

want to believe, then proves Himself to them afterwards. This way, you know for yourself that God is real.

Answer 32

At times I do threaten my kid with 'severe punishment' if he does something terribly wrong, because I love him so much that I do not want him to get into 'real trouble'. But because I am so 'loving' the end result can go both ways, either punishing or forgiving depending on the 'severity' of my kids actions while considering his past behaviour and his willingness to 'repent'.

.



2) In a 'test' you don't give strait answers to the person that sits for the 'test' just because you want the person to get through the 'test',but 'objective' answers to help finding the answers easy for the person, hence the 'unfalsifiability'.

Answer 33

That is your perception.



God's righteousness requires we be warned of impending damnation.



Having said that.



How would be feel, if you were living on earth here, and not be warned of a prison term, in committing any offenses against the law abiding citizen.



Then when such crime were committed, you would plead the fifth--since you would have no knowledge of the crime and the punishment thereof.



Just to keep it simple so you can get an idea of the big picture--we can either see more of hell--or keep our eyes on the one in who we put our faith--and head in His direction.

Answer 34

Jesus Christ is the truth! Get a kjversion Bible and believe. 1. Here is wisdom: "Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things."- The Word of God. Accept Jesus Christ and ask Him to open your eyes to all this. Righteous judgment is something we all want. Do you really want to live in a world where evil is unpunished? ANd that is not the main message! The gospel is the good news! "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"- The Word of God!

2. There is endless evidence but here is wisdom: "But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find [him], if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul."- the Word of God. Now, religions are being falsified. They realize Jesus Christ is the truth. It is not atlas holding up the earth is it? Instead we see, it is exactly as the Word of God says. "He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing."- The Word of God. That should be the end of it! Then they thought they had counted all the stars in the sky before telescope but Bible said the stars were countless! Guess which right again? And, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4ZU2oUaYZ0&list=PLvVLPnZBnLEUBdtCgfLzR_m-S0cVInFOx All is as written. As man says the scholarly world has fallen silent. Why do they not put this information in textbooks? Alot of Christians would be interested to learn about it! Because they know, "If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?"- The Word of God. They know if you trust earthly things you may start to trust heavenly things so they omit this information to deceive. And so on.

Answer 35

" . . . needs the threat of Hell to flourish?" It doesn t. Most Christians don t even think in those terms. Fundamentalist Protestants do, or at least claim that they do, but they are not the original expression of Christianity (and they are also very much in the minority). I think you are confusing the practice of religion with "theology."



" . . . If religion and god are real, then why is it that God has made verification entirely impossible? I m pretty sure we would follow god and religion more devoutly, proudly and faithfully if we could verify." Actually, the exact opposite is true: As long as there is no way to verify that God is real, then you are totally free to ignore God. That would no longer be true if God could be proven--and the result would be coercive in the extreme. God "hides" as an act of compassion--so that you cannot be forced to have a relationship with God that you do not want to have. But God is also (and I just know I m going to regret saying this!) like a "secret Santa," who keeps sneaking into your life in unexpected ways and at unexpected moments.



Check out the podcast of "Fresh Air with Terry Gross" from Thursday, September 17:

http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/

Answer 36

1. Christianity doesn't need the threat of hell to flourish. Although Christ certainly taught it, this doctrine wasn't clearly defined until some some couple hundred years after His death. Fear of God certainly plays a part in conversion, but we are also humbled by the fact that the Son of God would be willing to die on our behalf.



2. It isn't designed to be unfalsifiable. It just happens to be that way, much like other things people believe.

Answer 37

1) How do you defend the fact that religion needs the threat of hell to flourish?



Religion does not need hell to flourish. Most religions do have the concept of hell.



2) How can you answer for the fact that religion is unfalsifiable (made impossible to prove or disprove)?



Belief in God will ultimately be a matter of faith because ABSOLUTE proof (or disproof) of the supernatural will never be found. However modern Astrophysics has proven the existence of God beyond a REASONABLE doubt.



++ First Cause ++



Newton's Third Law of Motion states "For every action there is equal and opposite reaction." Every action in the universe was caused by a prior equal and opposite reaction.



If we logically follow each and every action and reaction back to the beginning then logically there has to be a first action without a prior equal and opposite reaction. Modern astrophysicists call this event the Big Bang.



This first action was completely independent of outside forces. This action was God, the un-caused cause, creating the universe. This proof also fulfills the principle of Occam's Razor.



By the way, it was Georges Lemaître (1894–1966), a Belgian Catholic priest and professor of physics and astronomy, who proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre



++ Fine Tuning of the Universe ++



A universe in which life has a chance to exist can only happen in where a couple of dozen universal constants coincide, including:

+ Minimum interval of space

+ Minimum unit of time

+ Planck's Constant

+ Maximum velocity

+ Gravitational Attraction Constant

+ Weak Force Coupling Constant

+ Strong Nuclear Force Coupling Constant

+ Rest Mass of a Proton

+ Rest Mass of an Electron

+ Electron or Proton Unit Charge

+ Minimum Mass of the Universe

+ Total Visible Rest Mass

+ Boltzmann's Constant

+ Hubble Constant

+ Cosmological Constant

+ Cosmic Proton/Photon Ratio

+ Permittivity of Free Space

+ Electromagnetic Fine-Structure Constant

+ Weak Fine-Structure Constant

+ Gravitational Fine-Structure Constant



A couple of percent difference in any one of these constants would make the universe completely uninhabitable. Roger Penrose, a peer of Hawking, calculated that the chance of a universe capable of supporting life as we know it as one part in 10 raised to the power of 10 raised to the power of 123 (this means this fine tuning was mathematically impossible to have happened all by itself).



This fine tuning of the universe, while not an absolute proof of God, can be used to help prove the existence of God beyond a reasonable doubt (which is my claim).



====



For credible scientific and factually reliable evidence for the existance of God see the Magi's God Wiki: "Why Believe in God?" http://magisgodwiki.org/index.php/Why_Believe_in_God%3F



I also suggest you read Robert Spitzer's book "New Proofs for the Existence of God: Contributions of Contemporary Physics and Philosophy"



With love in Christ.

Answer 38

Jehovah's Witnesses do not teach that God burns people in hell. On November 1, 1903, following the last of a series of debates at Carnegie Hall, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, U.S.A., between Charles T. Russell and Dr. E. L. Eaton, one of the attending clergymen acknowledged Russell’s victory, saying: “I am glad to see you turn the hose on hell and put out the fire.”

Answer 39

1) Actually, the threat of hell is detrimental to a religion that has meaning, as you have noted. Although Christendom in general propagates the idea of hell as a place of perpetual torment, the Bible does not.



2) Yes, many religious claims are unfalsifiable. To follow Jesus though, takes but enough evidence to believe that what he offers sounds credible enough to start going down that road. It is during the personal journey with him that the evidence and verification shows itself.

Answer 40

As a Jehovah's Witness,American Standard Version Ps 83:18 That they may know that thou alone, whose name is Jehovah, Art the Most High over all the earth. I not committed to a religion.Isa 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “Yes, my servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and have faith in me And understand that I am the same One. Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none. I am committed to God, Jehovah. I will depend him. I do this everyday. I am a witnesses of his love, mercy, and justice. Many claiming to believe in him, have painted a crude picture of him by their lies. They states that God took your loves when they die. They make a claim that God will torment sinner in hell. Job 34:10 So listen to me, you men of understanding: It is unthinkable for the true God to act wickedly, For the Almighty to do wrong. Many ministers wants you to empty your pockets if you believe in God.

2 Thessalonians 3:7 For you yourselves know how you should imitate us, because we did not behave in a disorderly way among you,

nor did we eat anyone’s food free. On the contrary, by labor and toil we were working night and day so as not to impose an expensive burden on any one of you. 9 Not that we do not have authority, but we wanted to offer ourselves as an example for you to imitate. 10 In fact, when we were with you, we used to give you this order: “If anyone does not want to work, neither let him eat.”

Hebrews 2:14 Therefore, since the “young children” are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly shared in the same things, so that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death,+ that is, the Devil, In brief, Paul meant that Satan, personally or through his agents, can cause the physical death of humans. In harmony with that, Jesus called Satan “a manslayer when he began.”—John 8:44.

Re 21:3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” 5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”



This is what the states about God:De 32:4 The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness who is never unjust; Righteous and upright is he.  5 They are the ones who have acted corruptly. They are not his children, the defect is their own. They are a crooked and twisted generation!

1Jo 4:8 Whoever does not love has not come to know God, because God is love.

For more information go to www.jw.org.

Answer 41

1) How do you defend the fact that religion needs the threat of hell to flourish? There's a saying I once heard that I think does have some interesting applicability to religion: "If you need violence to enforce your ideas, then your ideas are worthless." In my mind, if religion was genuinely good, benevolent and deserving of human worship, then it should not need the coercion of eternal damnation to extract obedience. "People wouldn't follow it if it didn't exist" -- then that means that the religion isn't worship-worthy. Now, if you're the person whose religious beliefs are independent of the threat of hell, then that's great, but I'm largely convinced that without the threat of hell, atheism would be prominent. How do you defend the usage of coercion in religion?



God created Hell for Satan and his fallen angels (the demons). It was NEVER intended for people. Satan wants to be God, and to kick God out. Thus, why he tempted Adam and Eve. He wanted to destroy what God loved most. That being said, that is why there is evil in the world, because men's hearts are evil due to the temptations of Satan.



I do not love God out of fear of hell. I love God because he loved me first. He could have easily destroyed Adam and Eve the moment they sinned against him, but he did not. Through the blood of his Son Jesus Christ, we are able to live forever yet again, all we have to do is accept that gift. We do not follow him to gain this gift, as that would be like trying to earn it for ourselves. We do it because we love him. I am a Christian because I love Jesus and look forward to eternal life with my Savior, not because of fear. I am not afraid, there is nothing to be afraid of.



2) How can you answer for the fact that religion is unfalsifiable (made impossible to prove or disprove)? If religion and god are real, then why is it that God has made verification entirely impossible? I'm pretty sure we would follow god and religion more devoutly, proudly and faithfully if we could verify.



I remember being taught in school that we only use a small part of our brain capacity. Why do you think that is? I truly believe it is because God knew this would happen and made sure that we would not be able to figure everything out. If we could, then we would truly be like God wouldn't we? Imagine how intelligent we would be if we were able to utilize our entire brain? We were meant to be like God, but we fell because of sin, which is the term for disobedience to God. As a result of our fallen nature, we die, we are no longer perfect. This is why we are not able to prove or disprove the existence of God. When I bring up the subject of hell to someone, I am not trying to scare them into believing in God, I am trying to show them that there is a way out. I am trying to show them that God loves them so much that he sent his only son to die on the cross so we could go to heaven instead. How many people do you know that would do that? I sure couldn't. That is the extent of our Creator's love. It is beyond human understanding.

Answer 42

None taken :) I am a convert to Islam and hell was not the reason. I believe that God is strictly one. I was raised Christian, but considered Judaism, until I gave Islam a chance. It is the concept of God, the strict monotheism and that Islam is more conservative and not reformed or updated, the take on this life and the reasons for all aspects of this life and the hereafter that I believe.

Answer 43

1, I don't believe God sends anyone to hell. Hell is something we build for ourselves with negative thoughts and actions. Im with the crowd of believers that believe God doesn't send us to hell he asks us to adopt a positive life so we wont end up there.

2, We know very little about a lot of things. What Im saying is that many things are unverifiable to the casual observer. We dont know what electricity is but we know a lot about it and we know it works.

Answer 44

The teaching of torture in hellfire is a pagan lie, taught by religious people who wanted to scare people into their churches. Ancient pagans did the same thing. The true God puts life and death before us, because the wages of sin is death, not eternal torture. Romans 6:23, Deuteronomy 30:19



God reveals himself through his works, and is not far off from each of us. It isn't about proof, it is about our own willingness to acknowledge him. Sometimes a personal world view will blind people to what is right in front of them. Not only that, God will not allow humans to put him under a microscope, because his priority is to look for people who are willing to worship him in spirit and truth, that is, those who truly love justice and a better world, and who know that people cannot accomplish it, but God can and will.



As long as there are things that exist in this universe, one can see the evidence that he provided that he exists. One can say "I don't see God, so therefore he must not exist." However, everyone sees or is aware of some elements of this universe, even to the air that one breathes. Also, because just like a house is constructed by someone, the one who constructed all things is God.



God is defined as the one who created these things. This one has to be intelligent, because we see evidence of intelligence in his works. This one has to be living, and outside of time and space, because we currently see the universe as being billions of years old.



Our collective experience is that something does not come from nothing, and life only comes from pre-existing life. Since Darwin especially, the more we study about life, the more complex it shows itself to be, and the less likely it is that life came about by purely "natural" means. The simplest microbes are incredibly complex, and are not just a jumble of chemicals. Also, the laws that govern matter and energy did not just come into being - these represent selections made from alternatives.



A careful study of a clearly translated Bible will reveal a rational God with a far reaching purpose. His Son's death was his means of reconciling those of us who are willing, to him once and for all. He wants for us to come to him out of love rather than morbid fear, and among the accounts in the Bible are histories of people who demonstrated their faith in him and were blessed for it.



I encourage you to investigate both of these evidences of God - the book of creation, and the book of revealed truth.

Answer 45

In the Name of Allah the Most Gracious the Most Merciful.

My friend there is a Verse in the Holy Quran that says "There is NO compulsion in Religion "

Islam Teaches us That this Life is a test for The Hereafter. If you are successful in this test You will attain everlasting life and peace in Paradise But if you Fail this test you will have everlasting life in The Fires of Hell .This choice is left to every Individual .

Almighty God Has Created the Human Being and He knows exactly what goes on in our minds and how we will react to different situations.

Now for example if Our Judical system or Lawmakers Had Not put the fear of The Death penalty/Life Imprisonment/ jail sentence and Give Humans The freedom of their actions what would be the state of our societies today even though there are stringent laws Humans commit unpardonable crimes...!!!

Similarly Religion tells us what is good and what is bad and Draws the Line of self restrain which we should not go beyond..

Islam tells us that the life of this world is Only a Temporary resting place and we have to move on and return to our lord .Hence one has to pack his/her bags for this journey with Good deeds ,with Righteousness so that your good deeds outweighs the bad deeds on the day of judgment in order to be successful.

Hence the Religion of Islam is Only teaching you to worship The One Almighty God of this universe to do Good deeds and avoid what is Bad for you !!! So Simple !!!

In answer to your second question If you study Islam or Go to the nearest Islamic Centre and ask them to prove The existence of Almighty Allah the One God of this universe They will welcome you and Gladly show you the Scientific Miracles and Signs in the holy Quran that will prove to any intelligent mind beyond doubt the existence of our creator.

That is why as Muslims we are proud of Our religion and The Holy Quran Because since 1400 years after its revelation no human is able to find a single mistake in this Books and To top it all Almighty Allah himself challenges Mankind in the Holy Quran to prove it is NOT from Him and to Disprove His existence !!!!

Answer 46

Your characterizations of Christianity and Islam would seem to be accurate, but not all religions feature the views you call into question.

"I'm hoping to hear a rational and reasonable answer, please and thanks."

Whereas Christianity's founder Paul championed faith as opposed to searching out evidence, Judaism demands a person seek out evidence and satisfy themselves that what they see is the reality.God told the Children of Israel, through His prophet Moses, "You [Israel] have been shown [meaning you have seen evidence] that the Lord, He is God, and there is no other." Isaiah started his book of prophecies with the challenge, "Come, and let us reason together." The Jewish Scriptures relate the historic fact that God spoke to an entire nation at once, and they (the nation, Israel) could confirm that experience by consulting their family, friends, their own ancestors and their friends' ancestors. In Christianity, Paul claims Jesus spoke to him, but Paul disagrees with himself as to whether anybody who might have been with him at the time heard or saw anything, and Paul doesn't even name any of them so that they could be questioned. Paul's claim stands or falls on whether Paul himself can be believed.. In Islam depends on the claim of Mohammad that he was visited by an angel he named "Jibril," but nobody who saw these alleged visitations heard or saw anything other than what looked what today we might call an epileptic fit. Mohammad's claim stands or falls on whether Mohammad himself can be believed. Joseph Smith claimed he was visited by an angel, but nobody saw that happen. Fortunately, Smith had hard, concrete evidence of his visitation, stone tablets he claimed were inscribed with a message the angel gave Smith. Unfortunately, Smith destroyed those tablets, so his claim stands or falls on his own credibility.

Moses' claim, on the other hand was, "YOU JUST NOW heard God speak." If he was lying, his listeners would have known he was lying,m but he was believed. If that was all it takes to start a religion, then certainly somewhere down through the ages someone else would have tried the same plan; tell a group of people they themselves had just heard God speak. After all, religions are copy-cats and what is found in one religion is OFTEN to be found in another. There is the magic man who walks on water or the clouds, or both, and heals the sick and even raises people from death. There are the men who were born of a virgin or rose up to heaven alive. ONLY in Judaism is there a story, "You yourself have heard God speak, and are alive now to confirm this fact."

That puts all of your questions aside other than heaven and hell. Judaism does have a heaven and hell, but they are NOT used as leverage to keep people believing in the party line; rather they are DOWNPLAYED as unimportant compared to the here-and-now. "If you follow My [God's] Laws, you will live in safety in your own land, and there will be rain for your crops and grain for your flocks and herds."

Judaism is the one exception to the norm. Judaism alone has a chance to be believed based on evidence and reason. EVERY other religion must be taken on faith (defined as 'acceptance of an idea based on no evidence or even against the evidence.')

Answer 47

i am a christian for 30 years, raised as a buddhist. Here are my thoughts ...



Q1 ... the threat of hell to flourish

you see hell as a threat. I take it as truth presented as it is.

also, threat does not expand God s kingdom. The christian God does not threaten. He lays it out ... as it is.

eg. if i am the landlord and you are my tenant, an agreement wd exist bet. us whereby it would be incumbent upon you to live in my house under my rules ... yes or no.



Fact is, the human specie is living on God s (as landlord, owner, creator, maker of our souls and everything) earth. Fact : it IS a landlord ~ squatter situation. God can evict us from his property, from this body of flesh, etc at His will if we do not follow His rules ... yes or no. To His children (christians) who follow His rules, He is merciful to us, sinners.



How strange that people don t SEE this reality ...

again and again, people prove to me that God make His children u/stand the obvious while to the heathens, even when the obvious smacks them in the face, they don t SEE.



Q1 ... eternal damnation to extract obedience.

this argument is false since there are many atheists who were formerly christians who ve become apostates BY CHOICE ... which voids your argument and viewpoint that God threatens.



there is wisdom and there is ... foolishness.

the foolish u/stands nothing. His view is like a mess of wires all wrangled and twisted which, of course, would confuse him to no end.

whereas the wise SEE, LISTEN TO GOD ... and follow Him. To us, everything is clear as daylight.



christianity is not a religion of violence. The violence in the bible must be taken into context in the right light in its given situation. Eg. the hebrews spent 400 yrs in egypt as slaves. The egyptians treated them wickedly during this time. God caused all the firstborn of egyptian humans and animals ... to die. There is a time to be a slave, there is a time to be set free ... yes or no. When its time to be set free and the eyptians wouldn t let them go, thinking the hebrews will be their slaves forever (?), then God stepped in and did what He did as recorded in scripture. Amen.



conclusion

your view is warped and sees violence , threat w/o taking the situation into context.

If i urged you not to put your hands into fire cos it ll burn you, you ll turn around and say that i am threatening you ... THIS is your argument. It is perverted, warped and totally unsound.

Answer 48

I am Christian, we are not supposed to defend. We are only supposed to teach those who want to hear as it is sin to argue or offend.



Titus 3:1-2 remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.

Answer 49

1. Hell is simply a separation from God, there should be different levels of hell.

Hell According to Saint Thomas Acquinis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP8_Cx0Osd0



2. Christianity is based upon the belief that Jesus is God. If you can disprove that, I'll gladly become an Orthodox Jew.

Answer 50

There are only two sources of thought and all thoughts left in the mind drive your behavior. Either you keep God's word (truth) and act upon it or you keep Satan's word (lies) and act upon them. There is no third choice and you have the privileged to choose which is for you. Death is the seal of your eternal destiny either with God or with Satan.

Answer 51

Your arguments would apply to all man-made religions Richie, but do you honestly think that your arguments would apply to the only pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father :- to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

Answer 52

#1 Jehovah's witnesses don't have the threat of hell at all!





#2. Join and participate in Jehovah's field service and the meeting every week and you will see for yourself that Jehovah is able to verify to your satisfaction that he is god.

Answer 53

1. Christianity does not need threats to gain anything. We are self-propagating by shown the promises of God. Christianity does not "gain followers" but invites the lost.

2. Proof is out there when you look accept it.

Answer 54

1- Christianity doesnt



2- It's not. If you dont believe then its because youre not Christian material. Enjoy your life. Eternal hell awaits.

Answer 55

Ask one question at a time if you want people, especially the Christians here, to take your seriously. I ask them a single question and they barely answer

Answer 56

To defend something you need to have all the facts.

Defending a religious belief should be defended by the scriptures, all of them.

Hell:

Does the Bible indicate whether the dead experience pain?

Eccl. 9:5, 10: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol,* the place to which you are going.” (If they are conscious of nothing, they obviously feel no pain.) (*“Sheol,” AS, RS, NE, JB; “the grave,” KJ, Kx; “hell,” Dy; “the world of the dead,” TEV.)

Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts* do perish.” (*“Thoughts,” KJ, 145:4 in Dy; “schemes,” JB; “plans,” RS, TEV.)

Does the Bible indicate that the soul survives the death of the body?

Ezek. 18:4: “The soul* that is sinning—it itself will die.” (*“Soul,” KJ, Dy, RS, NE, Kx; “the man,” JB; “the person,” TEV.)

Does anyone ever get out of the Bible hell?

Rev. 20:13, 14, KJ: “The sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell* delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.” (So the dead will be delivered from hell. Notice also that hell is not the same as the lake of fire but will be cast into the lake of fire.) (*“Hell,” Dy, Kx; “the world of the dead,” TEV; “Hades,” NE, AS, RS, JB, NW.)

Why is there confusion as to what the Bible says about hell?

“Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell. The simple transliteration of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to appreciably clear up this confusion and misconception.”—The Encyclopedia Americana (1942), Vol. XIV, p. 81.

Translators have allowed their personal beliefs to color their work instead of being consistent in their rendering of the original-language words. For example: (1) The King James Version rendered she’ohlʹ as “hell,” “the grave,” and “the pit”; haiʹdes is therein rendered both “hell” and “grave”; geʹen·na is also translated “hell.” (2) Today’s English Version transliterates haiʹdes as “Hades” and also renders it as “hell” and “the world of the dead.” But besides rendering “hell” from haiʹdes it uses that same translation for geʹen·na. (3) The Jerusalem Bible transliterates haiʹdes six times, but in other passages it translates it as “hell” and as “the underworld.” It also translates geʹen·na as “hell,” as it does haiʹdes in two instances. Thus the exact meanings of the original-language words have been obscured.

What does the Bible say the penalty for sin is?

Rom. 6:23: “The wages sin pays is death.”

After one’s death, is he still subject to further punishment for his sins?

Rom. 6:7: “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”



What is the origin of the teaching of hellfire?

In ancient Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs the “nether world . . . is pictured as a place full of horrors, and is presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” (The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, Boston, 1898, Morris Jastrow, Jr., p. 581) Early evidence of the fiery aspect of Christendom’s hell is found in the religion of ancient Egypt. (The Book of the Dead, New Hyde Park, N.Y., 1960, with introduction by E. A. Wallis Budge, pp. 144, 149, 151, 153, 161) Buddhism, which dates back to the 6th century B.C.E., in time came to feature both hot and cold hells. (The Encyclopedia Americana, 1977, Vol. 14, p. 68) Depictions of hell portrayed in Catholic churches in Italy have been traced to Etruscan roots.—La civiltà etrusca (Milan, 1979), Werner Keller, p. 389.

Answer 57

God has a law concerning the extent of which a person can be punished, God cannot break his own laws because he cannot sin.



Deu 25:3 Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.



according to this law God cannot cause a sinner to be punished over and over without end or he will be breaking his own law.



ALSO according to the bible when a man commits sin his soul dies.



Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.



Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.



after the soul dies the body will follow not long after as we all know full well that we all die at some point.



when a sinner who never became saved dies his already dead soul at that time ceases to exist anymore because death seperates the soul from the vessel it was contained in. the physical body.



Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.



Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.



now with that in mind consider what would have to take place hypothetically for God to cast a sinner into a place called hell to be tortured forevermore.



1: since the dead soul ceases to exist when they body dies. it would require eternal life to beable to exist forevermore in hell.



2: God in the person of Jesus Christ would have to take the sins of that person upon himself, die for them, give them eternal life, and then cast them into hell.



3: At the end of time God plans to do away with sin,. and in order for that to happen sinners would have to cease to exist anymore, but if they are eternally alive being tormented in hell they will not only exist but continue to sin by blasphemeing God for casting them into eternal torture.



4: God plans to destroy death and hell by casting them into the "lake of fire" which is a spiritual figure for destruction



Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.



Gods gospel program is indeed a cause of fear for mankind, especially the true gospel that the world continually rejects. according to the true Gospel, it is impossible for mankind to get right with God unless God himself died for them to pay for their sin and then applied that atonement to them in real history before they died physically.



it sounds simple doesnt it.



the catch is though that mankind is also unable to become saved unless God has predestinated them to become saved. no amount of accepting christ, eating crackers, drinking grape juice, washing with water, praying the sinners prayer or walking down the isle or speaking in tongues or falling over backwards has ever ever gotten anyone saved.



fortunately God may be ending this creation very shortly on October 7 2015 according to very much information that points to that date as the end of the world.

Answer 58

God doesn't want people to follow Him out of fear of eternal damnation. Hell is not a place where the wicked are currently burning for eternity. When people, both good and evil die, they go to the grave. A loving God will not have people burning forever and ever. When Jesus came to earth. He invited people to follow Him. He gave them a choice. He was sad when they didn't chose not to follow Him. Jesus didn't come to condemn people but to save them. He came to tell them what God was like. Jesus taught Biblical truths through using illustrations that people could relate to. He showed love and compassion for people who sinned. He didn't condemn them but He told them to stop sinning. He taught people how much better life would be for them if they were to follow His teachings.



God wants people to serve Him out of love not fear or coercion. He doesn't force Himself on anyone. He loves everyone even those who don't love Him in return or believe that He exists.



Christians should never preach hell and damnation to people. They should just present the facts. Those who accept the Son of God will be saved and those who don't will not be saved. Those who don't believe in God or want to have any relationship with Him will not want to be in heaven. So, when Jesus comes again, those who are saved will go to heaven with Him while those who are not saved will not.



I believe that God exists because of what is in the Bible and personal experience. And this is where faith comes in. No one can verify or convince you that God exists. They can try but ultimately you have to believe that He exists. You have to experience this for yourself. I can't tell you that God is real. You have to discover that for yourself. I have read stories of people who were of another faith who was going through some crisis and they challenged Jesus, saying that if He were real, He would reveal Himself to them. I just read a personal account of a woman whose husband drank making him violent and terrifying to his family. A pastor prayed for him and he stopped drinking. He never drank again. I have read of people being sick or possessed and Christians praying for them and they were healed. People believe in God when He does something in their lives or they see Him work in someone else's life. They believe in God when they see remarkable changes in others which they never thought they would see.



God has to be real to you. We can only share our personal experiences with you but you have to come to the realization or conclusion yourself whether or not God is real. Why not challenge Him? Ask Him to reveal Himself to you. God promised that when you search for Him with all your heart, you will find Him.

Answer 59

yes

Answer 60

1) "How do you defend the fact that religion needs the threat of hell to flourish?"



The Christian witnesses of Jehovah God are flourishing all over the world, and do NOT believe or teach 'hellfire':



"Fast Facts—Worldwide"



239—Lands where Jehovah’s Witnesses worship



8,201,545—Jehovah’s Witnesses



9,499,933—Free home Bible courses conducted



19,950,019—Attendance at the annual Memorial of Christ’s death



115,416—Congregations World Wide





True Christians do *not* teach 'eternal torment', but rather expose it as the pagan teaching that it is.

Take the articles whose links are listed here, for examples of that: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/s/r1/lp-e?q=hell&p=doc .



Christ was born into a nation whom God Jehovah had called his witnesses (Isaiah 43:10-12). Therefore, Christ's true followers are likewise witnesses of Jehovah, who teach what God's Word *itself* teaches, instead of church doctrine, or anything else.





Christ *warned* of false Christianity when he said things such as:



"MANY will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy ... expel demons ...

and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them:

‘I never knew you! GET AWAY from me, you WORKERS of LAWLESSNESS!’" (Matthew 7:22, 23)



"For FALSE Christs and FALSE prophets will arise and will perform signs and wonders

to lead astray, if possible, the chosen ones. You, then, WATCH OUT. . . ." (Mark 13:22, 23)



Their false Christianity cannot stand because it does not have Jehovah God's backing. They resort to manipulation through fearful teachings in order to gain converts from the openly pagan religions, and to hold sway over their converts. Their actual god is: "the father of the lie" (Joh 8:44); "the god of this system of things" (2 Co 4:4); "the ruler of this world" (Joh 12:31; 14:30; 16:11); none other than Satan the devil.





True Christians believe & teach what the Bible itself teaches, including that:



"[The] wicked will perish . . . *will vanish* . . . will vanish like smoke." (Psalm 37:20)



"The *FUTURE* of the wicked people will be *CUT OFF*." (Psalm 37:38)



"These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of *ETERNAL DESTRUCTION*." (2 Th 1:9)





The teaching of 'hellfire & purgatory' was what motivated me to search for what the Bible *really* teaches, and I cannot express in words how relieved I was to find out just how bogus it really is!



I felt disgust for God when I was told that lie, but I when I realized it was a total falsehood --and learned God's purposes truly are-- I developed a deep love & appreciation for him!





2) I have to disagree with your assertion here. All false religion can be proven false through both common sense, and, God's Word the Bible. The only worship that is approved by Almighty Jehovah God is described in it, as well, along with God's requirements for it. So, it is verifiable in God's Word. By honestly & without bias, comparing any religion to the actual teachings of God's Word, we can prove to ourselves whether it is the one true religion, or, one of the many false religions. . . .





"All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight,



for disciplining in righteousness, so that the man of God may be fully competent,



completely equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16-17)





"For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God ... moved by holy spirit." (2 Peter 1:21)





So . . . I warmly invite you to read one of the Bible-based articles about identifying true worship,

whose links are listed here: http://www.jw.org/en/search/?l=en&q=identify+true+religion&mt[]=ro&cat[]=pubs&fpd[]=any&sortBy=rel

Answer 61

DON'T ask us ask God

Answer 62

I'll attempt to answer your questions from a conservative Protestant viewpoint.



1) “How do you defend the fact that religion needs the threat of hell to flourish?”



This is really hard to answer as it could go different ways. First of all, many Christians would give the popular quip that Christianity is “not a religion, but a relationship.” They would say that religion is man’s attempt, through ritual, to make himself right with God, but that Christianity is a relationship with Jesus (the Christ/Messiah). We’ll get back to this idea in a minute.



Hopefully your ideas about Christianity aren’t all based on a few colorful televangelists or cult leaders., because Christianity does not nor ever did need hellfire-and-brimstone preaching in order to “flourish.” Jesus certainly taught about Hell as a literal truth, just like you’d warn someone of an upcoming storm or emergency. Jesus didn’t really claim to be a “great teacher” you know, He claimed to have actually come from what we might call a higher dimension (heaven), and that He was part of an all-powerful Being that we call God. As such, He knew the realities of these higher planes, and He taught, using hyperbole, that you’d do better to cut off your right hand or take out your right eye than get sent to Hell. (Matt 18) Yet He apparently wasn’t what we’d consider to be a “hellfire and brimstone” preacher by any means. He didn’t demean or browbeat His listeners into submission, as do some extremely-controlling cult leaders. What caused a lot of conversions after Jesus’ death was actually Christians’ love for the poor, charity, holy lives, and calmness in the face of death. Christianity-at-the-point-of-the-sword was a later development based on a different view of the Church’s role in the world, and that’s a subject that I won’t go into here.



Now, back to “religion vs. relationship.” Don’t overestimate the role that the doctrine of Hell plays in the average sermon, or even in the lives of many Christians (outside of cults). It’s important, yes, as it relates to salvation, yet to a conservative Protestant like myself, the very definition of a Christian is an INTERIOR spiritual change that is caused by the action of the Holy Spirit. A lip-service conversion to Christianity merely as “fire insurance” after an emotion-laden sermon might be a false conversion. Furthermore, a true Christian does NOT need the fear of Hell hanging like a Damocles sword over one’s head. In fact, many Protestant Christians believe the concept of “once saved-always saved.” That means that once a person has had this conversion experience and has been “sealed” by the Holy Spirit, he or she cannot be “sent to Hell” even if he or she chose to backslide somewhat. (St. Paul, who wrote many of the books in the New Testament, even had to scold some of his converts who were using their “freedom” as an excuse for immorality. Paul told them NOT “you’re going to Hell,” but “get some sense, and quit sinning.”) Rather than the fear of Hell, it is the action of the Holy Spirit, teaching and reproving us, and our growth in knowledge and wisdom that helps us grow in holiness, and we also see that sin is not only often stupid but causes incredible misery to others. We also gradually learn to love God more, and to love others more, and this helps the mature Christian resist the temptation to sin (and that temptation DOES still exist.)



1b. "If you need violence to enforce your ideas, then your ideas are worthless. In my mind, if religion was genuinely good, benevolent and deserving of human worship, then it should not need the coercion of eternal damnation to extract obedience.”



Now, I’m not arguing that Christianity NEEDS the threat of Hell to gain converts or cause spiritual growth; I’ve addressed that above. However, now I’ll respond to this assertion alone.



This sounds very good, that humans would NATURALLY turn to something good and benevolent, but is it TRUE? Do humans always choose the most noble, kind, elevated, and even logical choice? Of course not! Ask any kid if he prefers Mozart, Beethoven, or the latest lip-syncing pop-star who happens to wear a see-through dress? Ask why a cultivated novel with an elevated tone barely sells, but 50 Shades of Gray makes millions. Ask why the “healthy lunch” program failed miserably, but any kid would die to have unlimited Skittles or chocolate. Ask why so many people leave perfectly good marriages, ruining their credit, messing up their kids, and all for someone who turns out to be less than Prince or Princess Charming. I don’t want to single out a group, but watch how many nurses and even respiratory therapists smoke, in spite of the scientific evidence against it. And we see this over and over: people making foolish choices, often cutting off their nose to spite their face. Humans DON’T always make good, or even logical, choices. In fact, we might say the opposite is more often true. The study of history also gives the lie to the supposition above; if you look as some of the great reformers in the past, were they appreciated? Did people listen to them? Or did they end up poor or dead? Humans AREN’T always attracted to the good, the great, and a noble, whether in religion or anything else.



c)” I'm largely convinced that without the threat of hell, atheism would be prominent.”



I think history and anthropology gives the lie to this assertion as well. Humans have an innate sense that there is a Higher Power or Powers of some kind, even if they do not understand him/it. We see this among tribesmen in their interactions with “spirits,” with “ghost hunters” who encounter something “other” that truly frightens them, with nature lovers who sense that there is Someone above it all, and even in those who believe in fairies and similar creatures. Actually, the natural “religion” of mankind is probably not atheism, but animism or some type of spirit-worship/worship of the forces of nature. Some of these, while frightening, do not apparently have an idea of “hell” per se. No one forces these people to believe these things, and in some cases there is not a priestly class to benefit from people's devotions.



2) “How can you answer for the fact that religion is unfalsifiable (made impossible to prove or disprove)? If religion and god are real, then why is it that God has made verification entirely impossible? I'm pretty sure we would follow god and religion more devoutly, proudly and faithfully if we could verify.”



I would say that probably MOST devout Christians have asked that very same question. The answer is that we don’t know why God always chooses to work the way that He does. However, at least according to my branch of Christianity, outward religious rituals (that would be engendered by physical PROOF of God) would NOT really serve God’s purposes. If, as I often speculate, that God is a higher dimensional being, even the slightest hint of His power and blinding holiness would drive all of humanity to its knees, if it didn’t disintegrate us immediately, but this would be forced worship, an overpowering of our wills.



Rather than doing this, God/Jesus’ purpose seems to be to call those who are spiritually sensitive and who react positively to a certain message. Jesus often used phrases such as “He who has ears to hear, let him hear,” and His sayings weren’t always easy to understand. He didn’t necessarily make it easy for people to become His followers, but he said that those who were His would hear his voice and follow Him. ..even to death itself. St. Paul even said that what we Christians believe is foolishness from a human, physical standpoint. Even the philosophers in the First Century couldn’t believe it. But once you’ve had a genuine spiritual encounter with God, or even once the Holy Spirit begins to work in your life to draw you to Him, you can’t do anything else.



I hope this has helped you. I think you might benefit from at least reading about C.S. Lewis, a classical scholar and agnostic/atheist who became a Christian, or listening to Ravi Zacharias, the Christian speaker from India. Both of these are educated men and, even if you don't agree with them, you will at least have had the experience of listening to or reading the writings of an intellectual Christian apologist (one who gives a reasoned defense of the Christian faith.)

Answer 63

My answer to your question is set as an overall understanding of the fate of man. Hopefully it will establish the question of WHY?... anything, in the first place.

In the 3rd chapter of the King James Bible, we read:

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, [the man] is become [as] one of [us,] To Know' good and evil: and NOW, lest he put forth his hand, and take [also] of the "Tree of Life", and eat, and live for ever:

23) Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

24) So he (God) drove out [the man;] and placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of "The Tree of Life."



Adam the first man and Eve the first woman were [guilty] of disobeying the ONE commandment of God when he put them in the Garden of Eden. They; through temptation of the serpent, took of the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, for which God said to Not eat of.

NOW man knows Good and Evil.

He can NOT un-know it. Every human being has it in them; the knowledge of what is good and what is evil.

There can be NO excuse unto God, for our actions and our thoughts' for God knows them all.



God in THREE PERSONS= (us) in Genesis 3:22

1. God the 'Father

2. God the 'Son=Jesus Christ= The Word

3. God the Holy Spirit

1 John 5:7 KJV For there are THREE that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these THREE are ONE. John 1:1 KJV In the beginning was "the Word" and "the Word" was [with] God, and the Word [was] God.

Revelation 4:2 KJV And immediately I was in the spirit; and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and One sat on the throne.



HELL is mentioned 54 times in the King James Bible.

The PIT is also mentioned 54 times in the King James Bible

The Ditch is mentioned 4 times in the King James Bible.

No matter how one looks at these THREE, they are NOT where any of us would like to spend our lives, much less our eternal lives.

The Bible speaks more about NOT going to Hell, than it does about going to heaven.

WHY?

Because that' is exactly where every individual will go [if] he does [nothing] and continues on the path he is on in this natural world.

ALL have sinned (disobeyed) Gods' commandments, ALL' even we who call ourselves Christian.

There is NONE righteous, No, not one.

Not all who proclaim Christ are truly his followers. Religions are diverse in their doctrines of faith.

Jesus said in Luke 6:39 KJV

Can the Blind lead the Blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

The natural man [receiveth NOT] the things of the 'Spirit of God': for they are foolishness unto him: NEITHER can he know them, because they' are spiritually' discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV

There are only TWO types of people in the world.

1. The saved

2. The lost

ALL who do not receive the truth of 'the gospel of Jesus Christ' are lost and must go to where they are predestined, hell.

THIS is why our creator, God-Jesus Christ "the Word' had to come [in the flesh] as one of us, BUT Without SIN, disobedience ! He had NO sin, yet he bear ALL of our sins on that cross. That' is how much he loves his creation. You and me, and all humanity. Yet still' mankind refuse to open their eyes and hearts to "The BOOK" which is his written testimony for all of mankind, telling us of himself, and where he does NOT want us to end up.

Hell was created for Lucifer and the 1/3rd of the heavenly angels that rebelled against God in the beginning.

Lucifer HATES us! Why?

Because God said WE shall be like Him. We were created in God's image, not Lucifer Satan.

God tells us what happened way back in the beginning:

The Prophet Isaiah 14:12-15 KJV

How art thou FALLEN from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I' will ascend into heaven, I' will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I' will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I' will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I' will be LIKE the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to HELL, to the sides of the PIT.

Believe me....Satan, Lucifer believes in Hell, and he believes in God, and HE TREMBLES.

James 2:19 KJV.....Thou believest that there is a God; thou doest well: the DEVILS also believe, and tremble.

A spiritual man is not a Natural man, because he understands the things of the Spirit, therefore we read in 1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth [all] things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

You see; JUDGMENT, [begins] at the house of the Lord, [Christians] God's judgment begins first with [us] Christians and in 1 Peter 4:17 KJV we read: For the time [is] come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and [if] it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that OBEY NOT the gospel of God?

Every man and woman has their eternal life in their own control.

1. Choose Christ Jesus= eternal life with him in paradise

2. Do Nothing= and continue on the path to Hell.

Acts 16:31 KJV Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, AND thy house.

Hope this painted a picture easily understood.



ps; How do I' know that the King James Bible is truly the Word of God and is a testament of all that I have written here?

The BOOK' testifies of itself in TWO places. And according to the Book; by two OR three witnesses shall a truth be known. 2 Corinthians 13:1 KJV and Matthew 18:16

Jesus said by the Psalmist ; Psalms 40:7 KJV Then said I', Lo, I' come: in the volume of "the Book" it is written of me, I' delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Hebrews 10:7 Then said I' Lo, I' come ( in the volume of the Book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

God tells us, the reader, to seek out the book of the Lord and read.

There are many books that profess to be "the Book" the Bible, but there is ONLY ONE TRUE VOLUME of the Bible.

Isaiah 34:16 KJV Seek ye out [of] the book of the Lord, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth [it] hath commanded, and his Spirit it hath gathered them.

( the words written therein)



God Bless You