Question:
Questions for creationists (pt 12)...?
skeptic
2006-05-30 19:26:52 UTC
Do you know there is NOTHING in science/evolution that says that there is no God?

That's right... evolution says nothing about the existance of God and his role in a creation. It may not be possible to believe in an exact literal interpertation of Genesis, but do you really believe EVERY word of the Bible is ment to be read literally? Evolution even allows for the Christian God who answers your prayers and performs miracles.

I ask this question as the final in my little series. Almost every creationists who responded FALSELY believed that evolution denied the existance of God.

If you want to read more about what I'm talking about, I suggest you read the book "Finding Darwins God," by Ken Miller.

Good luck
Seventeen answers:
2006-05-30 19:33:08 UTC
If you would like to learn about truth, I suggest the King James Bible. Man is very fallible and yet you read man's word before God's.



I would wish you good luck, but you are history.



Psa 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
JG
2006-05-31 02:35:49 UTC
First: Evolution is a belief. There is no scientific evidence for it. Don't mix it up.



Okay, there may be nothing in Evolution about the non-existence of a god, but there is no question that the Bible and creation does not mix with evolution. The gap theory does not work (a day is a day and God does not use death to make things better).



Yes, I believe the Genesis story literally. That's why I'm creationist. There's science behind creationism.
Snark
2006-05-31 05:04:56 UTC
Yes, I do know that. Thanks for pointing it out in the public forum. I have done some reading and research that contributed to me turning from Christianity - it was just ONE of the reasons, though - I'm not trying to say that someone cannot be a Christian and accept evolution, too.



There are *little* aspects about evolution that I don't know enough about to either accept or deny... but I have found enough evidence to accept the overall theory, and I will keep asking questions and looking for answers.



Might I suggest a book, too? That is, if you have not already read it - you may have. I've just finished reading The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. :)



The link is one another user provided me with. You might enjoy it if you've never seen it.
hockeyfan7602001
2006-05-31 02:38:34 UTC
You make a good point, but from the research and the books I have read I think that science points more towards the creationists being true as it does the evolutionists. evolution is real, you see it in bacteria and such. but evolutionists have gotten it wrong for the most part. Like dating the earth to be 12 billion years old, and thinking that we came from from ape. It goes against the bible. If you are interested in talking about my thoughts. I love this subject, email me at hockeyfan7602001@yahoo.com
judy_derr38565
2006-05-31 02:39:52 UTC
Hummmm so you think we just evolved from an ape, or some primevil rock soup mix, developed legs and went to JCpennys and bought a suit and here we are today.

I find creation much easier to believe, a dog has always been a dog and a bird has always been a bird there are just different spiecies, I've never seen a turtle evlove into anything else but a turtle, a chicken has never turned into any thing but a chicken. And Darwin at one time was a beliver until he was mislead.
2006-05-31 02:31:39 UTC
I believe mental illness was rife in the Bible.

Moses talking to and receiving messages from a burning bush - schitzo.

Jesus and the 12 apostles - an early version of Charles Manson but in a good way.

The parting of the Res Sea - an earthquake.

I could go on and on but why bother.

Christians believe the twaddle and that's all there is about it.

Our brain can not fathom how, when, where, or why the universe began or how man came to be.

I am a true cynic.
jubiejubejubajube
2006-05-31 02:35:45 UTC
i find that people do take the bible way to literal...



there is nothing in the bible that says God actually stopped creating (for all those 'we all came from adam and eve therefore we are sleeping with relative' people)...



and the bible has been re-written so many times you can't take it literal any more... most of it is examples and parables...



i believe it is possible that we were created by God and then evolved into what we are today... but i do not believe we evoled from apes... that is ridiculous!



i believe we have evoled over time... look at history... we are taller, more intelligent, etc...



that explains the whole cave men thing... and how different they were from us...



plus to all you evolution theorists out there... we evoled from a single cell right? who created that one cell? where did it come from?



there is a flaw in your theory people!



ok, i will get off my soap box now... hehehe
?
2006-05-31 02:35:07 UTC
Yes I believe EVERY word of the Bible is to be read literally. The Bible is either ALL true or NONE of it is true. I KNOW God and I KNOW that He is the whole TRUTH and nothing BUT THE TRUTH. He said it, and I believe it.



Creationists look at references that YOU provided? You need to check into some good creation science literature. No one needs to argue with you, they just quite simply need to pray for ya.
greenstateresearcher
2006-05-31 04:29:58 UTC
I believe in both the Bible creation and eveolution.There really isn`t a contradition.Its time to get God out of the box an realize that he is smarter then all humanity put together.What a woderfull world he made.
t a m i l
2006-05-31 03:35:47 UTC
As Christians, one must cast down any imagination that exhaults itself against the knowledge of God. In Genesis 1, God created everything in 6 days and the 7th day He rested. The book of Peter writes 1 day is like a 1000 yrs and 1000 years like 1 day. Initially the Holy Spirit hovered over the waters like a chicken over her nest (indicating eggs). I believe the egg came first. God called the light out of darkness then 1st day. He spoke everything into exhistance. By faith filled words God created everything. A cloud around the earth 2nd day. All plants grew 3rd day. There was heavenly lights 4th day. The ocean waters brought forth dragons, sea creatures, fish, bugs, birds, etc.. 5th day. (There was some adaptation with the birds and amphibians.) The earth brought forth beast of the field, bugs, birds, etc.. God made man special, male & female. He made them in the image of God. Adam formed from dust and God blew into Him life. From the man's side was formed a woman. This was the 6th day. God rested the 7th day.



The biggest problem with evolution is that one creature changed into another, even that monkey changed into man. I'll never believe that my God is the Monkey Spirit. I believe birds, amphibians, lizards, egg-laying creatures, etc. did adapt from water to land. I think the whale didn't get to Noah's ark in time. I think the Platypus was an egg-laying mammal and adapted to land from the ocean water.



Darwins God of Evolution didn't believe in the God of Genesis. I have heard that He actually left the God of Evolution for the God of Genesis later on in His life. To believe in the God of Evolution would be idolatry
resilience
2006-05-31 02:34:35 UTC
No not everything is literal but explain how the story of creation fits in with the evolution theory then... it doesn't.
chaz
2006-06-06 23:35:16 UTC
The Bible provides evidence on page one that evolution is false.



=)
ce3sparky
2006-05-31 02:30:32 UTC
i am a believer in the direct tie between science and god if your interested in why send me an email ce3sparky@yahoo.com
jonthecomposer
2006-06-02 08:44:25 UTC
Yes, I do know that evolution doesn't literally say that there is no God. However, I have observed (as objectively as I can) that it is more a matter of context (based on deduction) that most Christians believe evolution is anti-God.



1) I understand that the Bible MUST be read in context, as everything else must be interpreted. Modern context example: A father says to his son in a playful manner, "I'm gonna kill you, you rascal!" Nobody would miss this context simply because it is a modern approach at humor.



2) Logically speaking, there is a disjucture that occurs in the idea of

a) A belief that there is a God- whose "powers" can manipulate (in fact, create) space, time, matter, non-contingient individualism, life, order, law, etc., and do so in standards-----



as opposed to the idea of



b) Darwinism which claims that nature (as in: all elements and compunds present, natural processes, manipulative sources[heat, mutation, natural selection, etc.]) has created humans (and all life on earth).



The idea that Darwinism is anti-God lies in the logic that, if there is a God who exists and is as perfect (a standard of behavior and existence unto himself that never changes: [reflexive property non-distributable]-- as in: by very nature unatainable by humans), and is a creator, and was/is without beginning or end, then the act of believing that He didn't create nature as it stated in the Bible would be (by deduction) calling God a liar. (since the Bible is considered having been directly inspired by God)



This reasoning works on several levels: the Bible says that God created us in His image (in His likeness, but with personal choice, -omnipotence, +limited physical manipulating capabilities, etc.). The Bible also says that God created all the creatures. It says that God created the earth and space (heavens).



**************************************************

AS FAR AS LITERAL BELIEF:



Of course, I don't believe that the earth is the literal center of the universe. However, if (like Biblically stated) that we are God's most loved creation, it may as well be the "center of the universe" as far as Christians are concerned.



I don't believe that the "apple" was nearly as important in the "fall of man" as the IDEA that Adam and Eve chose something OTHER than God. After all, God gave them the choice to choose something other than Him. He didn't force them. This is where the agape classification of love gets all of it's power from: you can't be FORCED into love. It is ALWAYS a choice.



Take the "if you have faith the size of a mustard seed you could say to that mountain 'move over there' and it would" scripture. Of course, ANYONE can move a mountain. Just drum up enough resources and capital, and give your investors a good reason. People move mountains literally everyday. I believe that the scripture meant to concentrate on how the "little" things can do (for a person) much, much, more than moving a mountain. However, as humans, the vast majority of us (belief in God not-withstanding) would rather move a mountain for profit than hug a drooling man in a nursing home. THAT takes faith.

##############################################

Back to evolution.............



I am a true believer in science as well. I believe in sound, logical reasoning, the scientific method, and scientific observation. But, I personally still do not take Darwinism at face-value. There ARE logical reasons for this:



1) If God exists, (based on His perceived being) it is entirely as possible for God to have created us as it is for evolution to have created us. I choose to believe that He exists.



2) Just as I cannot prove 100% that God exists, you cannot prove 100% that evolution is true. Evolution is a scientific theory. But it doesn't cover 100% of even evolutionists' questions. It simply doesn't answer all my questions. Microbiology (with emphasis on chemical structure rather than evolution specifically) answers more of them.



3) Just because there is an observation, doesn't necessarily mean the analysis of it is correct. Example: You observe that when you press the brake pedal, the car slows down. Analysis: Brakes slow cars down. One, this IS TRUE. Two, this IS FALSE. Now, before you go saying I contradict myself, please realize that I am speaking about different contexts. If your context uses the criteria that point A is where you start applying the brakes and point B is where you actually cease forward motion (with brakes constantly applied), then it is true for those criteria. However, if you are talking about a circuit or route where they MUST be applied (in certain places) to keep your vehicle under control by temporarily reducing your speed, it is FALSE. Why? Very simply: if you MUST apply the brakes, and the more efficiently they work, the faster your deceleration. If it only takes 5 seconds to decelerate and then get back to speed, as opposed to 7 seconds (because of your difference in braking), you have just deducted 2 seconds from your overall time, thus yielding a greater average speed. This is VERY counterintuative, but nonetheless true. Analysis: brakes speed you up. This type of counterintuitive truth can exist in many things. I believe that, the more complex the system being analysed, the more chance of counterintuative truths. Darwinism is very complex.



4) Evolution denies that the very thing that HAS been made (as in: life itself), could have been designed by a "creature" who already posesses it (life). I think that, at the very least, in order for science to be able to even be seen as credible in it's observation of "life", it must admit the possibility of an intelligent creator (an "always" life). After all, this is science. We must take into account all possibilities, and judge them under strict conditions without prejudice. I think dismissal of such a possibility is premature and pressured by the scientific community. (premature as in: it was dismissed, almost wholly, primarily when the Scopes trial was decided) I also believe that the POSSIBILITY of intelligent design should be made a valid scientific study in the theory of evolution.



Conclusion: I don't believe that evolution states literally that it is against God, but moreover, gives rise to a questionable faith perception (of God) based on a deductive - reasoning comparison of the perceived role of God.



I don't mean this sarcastically, but I think a rather good question to pose would be: "Did you know that there is nothing in Christianity that says science should be ignored?"...... well, speaking in context, that is : )



Peace and axle grease,

Jon

*****************************************************************

skeptic: I greatly appreciate your feedback. I realize that true science by definition doesn't deal with "supernatural" things. I know that "God" would be considered (also by definition) "supernatural" and "unquantifiable" or even "untestable". This would eliminate Him from the scientific equation. I guess ultimately, my opinion would like for science to simply recognize the possibility for something (God) that it cannot study.



Thanks again
Tigger
2006-05-31 03:05:27 UTC
You will find out one day when you are standing before Him.
phallacide
2006-05-31 02:28:19 UTC
Why the good luck?
2006-05-31 02:28:38 UTC
Won't you miss the rants?


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