Question:
Jehovah's Witnesses, would Jesus approve an organization that came about through disobedience to him?
?
2013-01-17 09:35:34 UTC
At Luke 21:8, Jesus foretold that persons would come on the basis of his name and say 'the due time has approached'. He warned his followers not to go after such ones.

Now supposing a man started teaching that the time for the end of the world had approached and he was even giving a year when it would take place; and supposing further that that man even published a book on the subject, the title of which oddly enough happens to be 'The Time is at Hand' (compare Luke 21:8 in Knox Bible) - wouldn't you say that this man is filling the role of those whom Jesus specifically warned at Luke 21:8, not to go after?

Furthermore, wouldn't all those who go after him be disobeying Jesus' words at Luke 21:8?

And wouldn't any organization that is born out of such following of this man be the result, at least in part, of disobedience to Jesus' instruction?

Would Jesus then approve of and support such an organization founded, at least in part, on disobedience to his warning?

Would he ever choose that organization when, after the man's death, the organization *again* on multiple occasions preached a message to the effect that 'the due time has approached' and on one such occasion even sought to play down Jesus' words about no one knowing the day or hour by saying:

"This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the “day and hour”!" ?

I have been told that you are versed in the bible so I look forward to your expert scriptural advice on this matter. Thank you.
Six answers:
anonymous
2013-01-18 20:30:38 UTC
Greetings,



It is easy to see the flaw in your reasoning if we were to ask the same question of the apostles: "The Apostles repeatedly wrote that Christ would immediately return. So would Christ ever choose that organization when on multiple occasions it preached a message that 'the due time has approached' and on one such occasion even sought to play down Jesus' words about no one knowing the day or hour by saying: ‘Be vigilant, the end of all things is near’ and that and ‘those alive then would not all die’?" (Lk.19:11; 24:21; Ac.1:6)



Statements by Paul and Peter clearly led Christians to believe that they would not die before the Lord returned:



In 50 CE Paul said that those living would not die till Christ's return and they would be caught away 1Th 4:15-18



In 55 CE Paul said they were living in the time of the end 1Co 10:11



In 55 CE Paul said those alive then would not all die but would instantly receive immortality, the last trumpet would sound and the resurrection would occur 1Co 15:51



In 61 and 62 CE the apostles repeatedly stated that the Lord's return was near Php 4:5; Jas 5:8



In 64 CE the apostle Peter said that "The end of all things is near" and that they were in the "end times" 1Pt.4:7; 1:20



In 96 CE the apostle John said all the things in Revelation was going to happen "soon" "because the time is near" Rev.1:1,3



In 98 CE the apostle John said it was "the last hour" 1Jn 2:18



Jesus didn't return and the end did not occur before ALL these died.



Clearly, criticisms of the JWs’ view of the eminent end would also condemn the Apostles!.



So we give the same answer the Apostles would give. They simply misapplied true prophecy because of a lack of knowledge. And Christ patiently allowed them to grow in knowledge.



Though what the first century Christians *expected* did not come true they cannot be accused of being "false prophets." Neither is there any validity in the accusation of JWs because of failed expectations.



If anything, our premature expectations fit the pattern of those earnest Apostles who wished for Christ's return.



Witnesses being chosen as God's organization has NEVER been based on infallibility or complete knowledge. It has always been based on facts from God's Word which identify the True Christian congregation.



Christ chose his Apostles before they came to a complete knowledge of accurate Scriptural teachings! They had to make many changes, even with doctrine, even after the pouring out of the Holy Spirit and institution of the Christian Congregation! Why didn't Christ wait before making the Christians his sole channel of communication?



Jesus didn't say you would identify the true religion because they never misunderstood prophesy. He said that you would discern the true Christian Organization from the false "by their fruits," or the results of their teaching (Mt.7:16,20).



Notice, Christians would identify "false prophets" BY THEIR FRUITAGE not by their infallibility. Now, who has the historical record of bloodthirsty wars and immorality?- (Mt.7:21-23, 2Tim3:5, Gal.5:19-23)



JW's have continued to bring their beliefs into agreement with Scripture. When they were wrong they were more than eager to admit it and change. This is in contrast to most other religions.





Theologian Charles G. Finney said: "The discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions...Christian consistency implies continued investigation and change of views and practice corresponding with increasing knowledge."



Yours,



BAR-ANERGES





There are four points you fail to take into consideration:

1. The Bible writers didn’t use our dating system–they NEVER gave numerical “dates” in the future. So your demand for a “date” is specious. The fact remains that they STILL expected Christ’s return “soon!” So your argument is still destroyed.



2. There were MANY things the Apostles said that did NOT come true in 70 C.E.! Have you forgotten that Jesus’ end time statements in Mat 24-25 also applied to a future fulfilment?



3. You fail to note that EVEN AFTER the end of the Jewish system they still continued to preach Christ eminent return! (cf. John’s writings).



4. Your interpretation of Paul’s words as generic is solely driven by your presupposition. There is absolutely NOTHING in the context which would cause his hearers to think it did not pertain to their lifetime.



Even more, Paul himself had to modify his words in his second letter saying that they should not think “the Lords day is here.” Though his words still made it seem eminent (2Thes. 2). So I can see the doubters criticizing Paul because he had to change his tune when it didn’t happen immediately. Just like the Witnesses they “kept awake” and as time went on they adjusted their understanding.
NEGUS ASER
2013-01-17 10:16:40 UTC
What does 2 cor. 13;5 ask all to do, when it comes to Elohim Truth CM? Examine all teachings.Have you done that? Here you obviously question the j w teaching. Then, why are you still so gullible and naive in excepting Shatan/Gog of magog lies. John 8;44;45, Rev. 20; 7-8.

What are the Shatan/gog of magog lies besides the jw dogma you are aware of.

1.The created name is shatan/ gog of magog lies/terminknology. Prov. 30;1-4, Matt. 10;26

a.They teach god is the created name and jesZus is the son's name. You accept these lie without question. Why?

2.Ruach O A Desh never called the creator god or his son jeZus.

a. He call the creator. Hosea 2;16, Gen.1;1, Rev. 1;8, Psa. 111;9-10,

b. His son. Matt. 1;23, Isa.7;14,8;8,9;6-9.

c.Now you are no longer gullible or naive CM.

1.Deaf-adder-pas58;1-4,lie-lover=delusion rev.22;15, 2thess.2;8-10,iron sharpen iron=prov.27;17

2. FORCE WARNED = FORCE ARMED TO A WISEMAN.TO A FOOL IT IS FOLLY.

b. Is it celestrially correct because you accepted or because Elohim word teaches it.

1. Who are you but a human that will die in his appointed or premature time. eccl 7;16, 5;6-7

2.Elohim truth is not centered around what you favor. But what Elohim truth teach. john. 1;7, 1;17.Phil.1;7,17.
Willow Tree
2013-01-17 09:52:00 UTC
It surely is vital for each sincere worshiper of God to look well to his beliefs and associations, for the snares and pitfalls that threaten the purity of one’s faith today are vastly multiplied.



Since twisted and counterfeit words and lip service to the Holy Scriptures are seen to be the point of departure from what is sound and true, it follows that our protection must be in a strong faith in the written Word of God. Tradition will not suffice; nor will some isolated Bible text that is interpreted in such manner as to do violence to the other plain teachings of the Bible. Whatever anyone asks you to accept as truth, be sure to require of him some clear basis for the teaching in Holy Scripture. Even as regards the religious association to which you now adhere, do not hesitate to inquire into the Scriptural foundations for its teachings. All of this means that you must be a diligent student of God’s Word.







(2 Corinthians 13:5, 6) 5 Keep testing whether YOU are in the faith, keep proving what YOU yourselves are. Or do YOU not recognize that Jesus Christ is in union with YOU?

Unless YOU are disapproved.

6 I truly hope YOU will come to know we are not disapproved.





it behooves us all to test our faith





You do not want to become prey to unscrupulous men who will only use you for the advancement of their own power and position, and without any regard for your eternal welfare and happiness.

So check the credentials of those who come on the basis of Christ’s name, or who claim to be Christian teachers, and, if they do not prove to be authentic, then by all means obey the Lord’s warning: “Do not go after them.”

Rather, seek the safety of the true flock of God’s sheep.
?
2013-01-17 09:44:45 UTC
Jesus wouldn't support any organization or denomination, his word specifically says that their should be "no divisions among" us, his believers...something Paul said to early believers who were calling themselves the church of Paul/Peter/John/...etc.



It was the organizations of religion that had Christ put to death. All organized religious denominations today who follow "orthodoxy" are adhering to the creeds and blatant lies of the Roman Catholic Church, yet we look down on others as if their wrong is greater than ours.



Let us make every effort to spread the truth in love, not judgment via self exaltation.
?
2013-01-17 12:32:58 UTC
In 1919 Christ is supposed to have approved the JW's as His religion.



At that time they taught that Christ was to be worshiped and that the Great Pyramid was God's bible in stone.



They admitted in 1928 that it was the teaching of Satan to say that the Great Pyramid was God's bible in stone.



In 1971 they re-translated their "best translation ever" the NWT to show it was no longer fitting to worship Christ to agree with their new teachings.



If Christ did select this cult to be His earthly organization in 1919 it is clear He would have dropped them after they changed their teachings so much since that time.
Lungboy
2013-01-17 10:23:25 UTC
Typically when God's organization strays from his message the bible shows God as removing his blessing and then sending someone to warn them to return to his ways.



Ancient Israel went back and forth between having God's blessing to losing it. The first century congregation eventually fell to apostasy and God removed his blessing.



Now, even considering that Witnesses ever had God's blessing, given all the mistakes and coverups and constant revisions of doctrine, how would they know if they had God's blessing or not when anyone that questions their leaders is kicked out?



The wicked rulers of old used to kill God's messengers when they didn't like what they said. The Watchtower rulers are no different today.


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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