Question:
Why are National Park guides not allowed to say the true age of the Grand Canyon when asked?
CHEESUS GROYST
2007-01-29 07:16:13 UTC
Is it because the true geological age of the Grand Canyon conflicts with the creationist story that it was formed during the great flood in the Bible. Why has the National Parks service been gagged like this?
Sixteen answers:
catrionn
2007-01-29 07:19:56 UTC
Because those who take the Bible literally and believe in creationism have great political influence these days.
Bruce Leroy - The Last Dragon
2007-01-29 08:06:09 UTC
You may want to do research before you make claims and get publicly OWNED again.



Fact Checking 101



How Skeptic magazine was Duped by an Environmental Activist Group



by Michael Shermer



In last week’s eSkeptic , we published highlights from a press release issued by PEER (Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility), a Washington D.C.-based environmental watchdog group. That press release, dated December 28, 2006, was headlined:



HOW OLD IS THE GRAND CANYON? PARK SERVICE WON’T SAY

Orders to Cater to Creationists Makes National Park Agnostic on Geology



The first sentence of the release reads:



Washington, DC — Grand Canyon National Park is not permitted to give an official estimate of the geologic age of its principal feature, due to pressure from Bush administration appointees.



Unfortunately, in our eagerness to find additional examples of the inappropriate intrusion of religion in American public life (as if we actually needed more), we accepted this claim by PEER without calling the National Park Service (NPS) or the Grand Canyon National Park (GCNP) to check it. As a testimony to the quality of our readers, however, dozens immediately phoned both NPS and GCNP, only to discover that the claim is absolutely false. Callers were told that the Grand Canyon is millions of years old, that no one is being pressured from Bush administration appointees — or by anyone else — to withhold scientific information, and all were referred to a statement by David Barna, Chief of Public Affairs, National Park Service as to the park’s official position. “Therefore, our interpretive talks, way-side exhibits, visitor center films, etc. use the following explanation for the age of the geologic features at Grand Canyon,” the document explains.



If asked the age of the Grand Canyon, our rangers use the following answer: ‘The principal consensus among geologists is that the Colorado River basin has developed in the past 40 million years and that the Grand Canyon itself is probably less than five to six million years old. The result of all this erosion is one of the most complete geologic columns on the planet.’



Understandably, many of our readers were outraged by both the duplicity of the claim and our failure to fact check it. One park ranger wrote us:



You’re a day late and a dollar short on this one. As a national park ranger, I found most of PEER’s findings to be bogus. So have others: http://parkrangerx.blogspot.com



A Grand Canyon park interpreter wrote:



This is incorrect. I have NEVER been told to present non-science based programs. In fact, I received “talking points” demanding that Grand Canyon employees present programs BASED ON SCIENCE and that we must use the scientific version supported by the National Science Foundation and the National Academy of Sciences. As an interpreter I have shared the “creation” story of the Hopi people and the Paiute people because it is culturally relative. I used these stories as a tool to introduce the scientific story. Be confident there are good people running government, too.



One of our readers directly challenged Jeff Ruch, the Executive Director of PEER:



When I challenged that PEER guy to show me some evidence and provided him evidence to the contrary, he didn’t have much. I would say PEER did more than jump the gun. I’d say they are spreading misinformation.



Another Grand Canyon park interpreter offered this explanation:



Ruch’s attempts to insinuate a conspiratorial link between the NPS and organized religion are misguided and founded in fervent anti-Christian opposition, not reason or the law. Ruch’s anti-Judeo-Christian bias is evidence by his lack of opposition to GCA’s selling of Native American creation myths. His misinformation campaign aims to tarnish the reputation of the NPS to leverage his position that creationism books should not be sold in the GCA bookstore. I’ve emailed a few of my contacts at GRCA, and so far, all deny any conspiracy and all freely give the canyon’s age in education programs (as does all official GRCA print material). I’ll post updates as information becomes available. Until then, don’t believe everything you read.



The reference to the creationism book being sold in the Grand Canyon bookstore — Grand Canyon: A Different View by Tom Vail — is true. It is sold in the “inspiration” section of the bookstore, alongside other books of myth and spirituality. In any case, the story is an old one now, and completely irrelevant to the claim that NPS employees are withholding information about the age of the canyon, and/or are being pressured to do so by Bush administration appointees.



Embarrassed and angered by all of this, I promptly phoned Jeff Ruch myself and inquired what evidence he has to support this claim. He initially pointed to the creationism book and the fact that the NPS has failed to address numerous challenges to the sale of same in their bookstore. When I pointed out that this is irrelevant to the claim in the press release, he then reminded me of the biblical passages that have been posted at places along the rim of the canyon. Again, I admonished, this is not evidence for his central claim. We went round and round on the phone until I finally gave up and hung up, convinced that he simply made up the claim out of whole cloth.



Not wishing to simply call Ruch a liar, and allowing myself to calm down a bit, I emailed him and asked:



Can you tell us who in the Bush administration put pressure on park service employees? Can you name one person in the GCNP staff who says that they are not permitted to give the official estimate of the age of the canyon?



He responded:



1. I do not know — it is at the Director’s level or above. We have been trying to find out for three years.

2. Julie Cart, Los Angeles Times.



I contacted Julie Cart at the Los Angeles Times, who was out of town on assignment, and got her editor, Frank Clifford, on the phone. Clifford knew all about the creationism book and the biblical passages on the rim of the canyon, but said that he had heard nothing about this new claim of Bush administration appointees silencing park service staff, and that if Julie knew of such a thing the Times would be most interested in following up with the story. I then reached Julie by email, who said that she too knew of no such silence on the part of park staffers regarding the age of the canyon.



Once again outraged and enraged , I emailed Ruch to ask him why he referenced Cart, who denied his central claim. He responded:



I referred you to Julie because of the response she got from the superintendent’s office when she covered the issue earlier — not for any new claim.



Thanks a lot. I wasted several hours tracking down that false lead. Now at my wit’s end with this guy, I point blank asked him if he made it all up. He responded:



The interpretive staff at GCNP we are working with do not want to be identified and have gone into deep underground as the atmosphere at the park is now somewhat volatile.



Well, it would have been nice (not to mention ethical) if he would have said so in the first place. (I have now wasted about 10 hours of research time on this instead of other projects.) The referencing of sources who wish to remain anonymous is quite common in journalism and, in fact, there are laws protecting whistleblowers . The fact that no such reference was made until I pointedly accused Ruch of flatout lying makes me, well, skeptical of this explanation. His final statement to me doesn’t make me any less skeptical:



We are issuing an amended release today that



1. deletes reference to what interpretive staff can and cannot say and

2. features the NPS official statement that they provide geological information to the public.



Then why did PEER issue that statement in the first place? In my opinion, this is why:



PEER is an anti-Bush, anti-religion liberal activist watchdog group in search of demons to exorcise and dragons to slay. On one level, that’s how the system works in a free society, and there are plenty of pro-Bush, pro-religion conservative activist watchdog groups who do the same thing on the other side. Maybe in a Hegelian process of thesis-antithesis-synthesis we find truth that way; at least at the level of talk radio. But journalistic standards and scholarly ethics still hold sway at all levels of discourse that matter, and to that end I believe we were duped by an activist group who at the very least exaggerated a claim and published it in order to gain notoriety for itself, or worse, simply made it up.



To that end I apologize to all of our readers for not fact checking this story before publishing it on eSkeptic and www.skeptic.com. Shame on us. But shame on you too, Mr. Ruch, and shame on PEER, for this egregious display of poor judgment and unethical behavior.



Michael Shermer

Publisher, Skeptic magazine

Executive Director, the Skeptics Society

mshermer@skeptic.com
Lord L
2007-01-29 07:22:48 UTC
They are not gagged at all. If you visit the grand canyon, you can get a copy of the brochure that has the complete breakdown of the evolution of the canyon. Creationists would love it if the geologic information was gagged because then everyone might stop gagging at the creationist version.
anonymous
2007-01-29 07:26:52 UTC
The Christian Right is in control of American Policy including National Parks.



The Christian Right is neither.....................



Thousands of experiments have demonstrated that the Earth is 4.5 Billion Years Old.



It is time for the narrow minded, under educated, FunnyMentals to deal with it.
anonymous
2016-03-29 11:57:55 UTC
As someone who visits the canyon frequently and has researched and written about the history of geologic studies there, I can say there is some truth to this story, but it is also somewhat exhaggerated. There is no official order from the Bush administration for the park service not to give the scientifically accepted age of the canyon (ie: that the canyon is millions of years old and the rock layers are billions of years old). Park rangers will give you the correct answer if you ask them and as others have noted, the NPS Grand Canyon website also gives scientfically correct information and dates. The controversy surrounds a creationist book called 'A Different View' that claims the canyon was carved by Noah's flood and that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. This book WAS forced into the park bookstores against the will of the park administrators, park scientists and the Grand Canyon Association which runs the bookstores. After some debate, it was moved out of the science section and into spiritually, but it is still there today. Nobody has ever come out and said WHO exactly in government forced this decision (the park does not like to talk about it), but there is little debate that it was done under pressure from the Bush administration in order to appease Christian fundamentalists. On a larger scale, it is worth noting that even though the Grand Canyon is one of the most famous and popular geologic formations in the entire world and had a big role in the development of American science, there is currently NO museum at the Grand Canyon at all and virtually no public displays regarding science (or history or modern flora/fauna for that matter). The closest thing is a single panel along the rim near the lodges that gives a very brief 1 paragraph discussion of the river carving the canyon, but is very vague and does not go into dates or time. Imagine going to Gettysburg Battlefield National Park and finding no museum or displays about the Civil War other than a one vague paragraph panel off in a corner. Based upon frequent visits to the canyon and talks with park service people (again, they don't really like to talk about this), the impression that I get is that in order to avoid controversy (and perhaps jepordize their jobs), the park is taking a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy toward presenting geologic science to the public. Rangers will give the scientific answers if you ask and the info is buried on the NPS website, but you really have to look for it and ask for it. It is fairly clear that there IS some behind the scenes pressure on the park service from higher up to not publicize the scientific view of the canyon, but it has not gone as far as some claims make it sound (at least, not yet).
elliebear
2007-01-29 07:28:43 UTC
They probably aren't told that true unknown answer.
cindy
2007-01-29 07:26:10 UTC
There is no way for any of us to know the actual age of the grand canyon.



Scientists have yet to come up with a tried and tested way to date objects and the bible does not write about the grand canyon either.



So, it is up to speculation as to the actual age. No one is being gagged as to their opinion of age except maybe employees who would be considered experts by yourself and therefore might be held liable for saying something you might not want to hear.



In America , this sue happy nation that we live in, keeping silent about what we think is more for not being sued than any other reason.
Peace
2007-01-29 07:24:51 UTC
How old is the Canyon?



That's a tricky question. Although rocks exposed in the walls of the canyon are geologically quite old, the Canyon itself is a fairly young feature. The oldest rocks at the canyon bottom are close to 2000 million years old. The Canyon itself - an erosional feature - has formed only in the past five or six million years. Geologically speaking, Grand Canyon is very young.
anonymous
2007-01-29 07:21:43 UTC
Because they're too busy worshipping George W. Bush's @$$ and not nearly enough time teaching the TRUTH -- the Grand Canyon is millions of years old.
james p
2007-01-29 07:20:12 UTC
SHhhhhh, this has only been stated several times a week for the last blah blah blah...it is supposed to be secret, you are ruining our Christian conspiracy.
anonymous
2007-01-29 08:39:22 UTC
It's because ANYTHING they said would be in violation of the First Amendment. Why is this only a problem with you people when it favors religion?

Besides, they can't really be sure. Some scientists say the Canyon was formed slowly over millions of years. Others say that it was formed quickly over a matter of months. This has been especially so since scientists have had the chance to observe the results of the 1980 explosion of Mt St Helens.
Theophilus
2007-01-29 07:21:20 UTC
Only you know how old the Grand Canyon is.



I can guarantee the tour guides and the National Parks service have no idea.



grace2u
anonymous
2007-01-29 07:23:43 UTC
I'm glad it bothers you so much....



Scripture says God SPOKE all things into existence with His Word:

" By the Word of the Lord were the heavens created, and all the host by the breath of His mouth. For HE SPAKE AND IT WAS DONE; HE COMMANDED AND IT STOOD FAST". (psalm 33:9)
Ray H
2007-01-29 07:22:11 UTC
You should be gagged. Your trying to counter a book written by men of faith , not of science. God created the earth, we just dont know God's concept of time.
Roxas
2007-01-29 07:20:19 UTC
as the religion of america is christian
Phoenix, Wise Guru
2007-01-29 07:20:01 UTC
O rly?


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