Question:
Atheists please help me?
2010-12-23 01:56:57 UTC
i am not an atheist however i do try to understand you. please do not misrepresent your opinion in a poor fashion- making immature comments, when i ask you to explain to me how you find the need to defend your seemingly pointless life?

once again, this is an actual question that no atheist has been able to answer without a contridicting statement about religion.

if research serves me well, then your opinion states that everything that exsists- EVERYTHING- humans, thoughts, emotions, the universe, was formed by "galactic star dust" .. my confusion begins when i ask myself, have scientists traced where the galactic dust came from? and if you do strongly believe that everything- EVERYTHING, is random collision of particles, what influences you- an atheist, to continue to live? or even bother to argue your position? is it for emotional security? furthermore, why do you continue to contradict yourself when you say, nothing is purposeful when clearly, there must be a purpose if the galactic dust even began to collide- an energy or some sort. if science is sooooo solid- in our feeble human minds, then e=mc^2 and that means other factors- before the energy must have exsisted.. i am confused.. if your arguement is based on pre existing matter that spontaneously gave itself PURPOSE, then that initself is also a contradiction.. is it not?

i would greatly appreciate any form of knowledge... correction is considered constructive so if i am wrong on my facts, please help me understand.

and for the much anticipated harrasment apposing my beliefs, i am certain of things in my belief- this means i will not have to explain it because my god is great and i am more than positive that he will explain himself to you as he has to me..

once again, any clarification would be appreciated and thank you.
33 answers:
?
2010-12-23 01:59:18 UTC
Seems you are one of the screwed thinking BAD christians as described by the christian churches and nothing to do with atheists!



The Pope, Catholic Church, Church of England and mainstream churches all accept the big bang and evolution!



Lord Carey the former Archbishop of Canterbury put it rather well – “Creationism is the fruit of a fundamentalist approach to scripture, ignoring scholarship and critical learning, and confusing different understandings of truth”!



Nice that christians and atheists can agree and laugh together even if it is at fundie expense!



But behind the laughter is the despair at the fundamentalists striving so hard to destroy christianity by turning it from a religion to an ideology!
Zeus
2010-12-23 02:10:25 UTC
The purpose of life is to live and reproduce, the same as any animal. I am an atheist, i do not claim to have all the answers but neither do i feel insecure about that fact. Life is a wonderful gift, wherever it came from, and there is so much to enjoy. I would rather be happy in what i do know than create fantastic stories about gods and religion. The difference between us is that i am a free thinker, you have are religious which means that somebody has done all the thinking for you, your morals, your logic everything. This might be why you are having problems with big bang theory. How can you think outside of the box when you train your mind to be imprisoned in ignorance, in your world, everything must make sense and have a clear explanation. It is impossible for you to accept that there could be things that humans simply have not figured out yet because your god wouldn't make sense in that context.
2010-12-23 02:47:57 UTC
I don't feel the need to defend my life, I live my life because I value it. Because I have got the privilege of living and I intent to live my life as well as I can, love the people I love as well as I can and have as much fun as I can before I die. And no, the atheist life is not pointless. In my opinion atheists value their life more than theists, because we don't believe in an afterlife, and therefore try to live our lives here on earth to the fullest.

We atheists don't say that we have the answer to everything, we simply don't believe in any kind of deity. That does not mean we know the answers to all those questions you are asking us to answer, no one can answer those questions. I, myself believe that The Big Bang happened, but I still don't know how and why it happened, and I can except the fact that I just don't know. Sure, science has been proven wrong time and time again, but it has also brought us wonderful things such as medication and understanding of the world. So, that is why I trust science, but if you ask another atheist, they might give you a completely different answer.



Hope that helped.
2010-12-23 02:15:57 UTC
First of all, you just called my life pointless. How is it you do not find that insulting. Don't you imagine that going to a church every sunday and groveling on your knees to an imaginary Deity, one of hundreds of thousands, and then being conned out of your money while thanking the con man for taking it is equally pointless?



Nothing is random. Have you not heard of "Physics." Things have ben traced back to the "Big Bang," or were you not paying attention in science class when the Expansion of the universe was being discussed? Everything came into existence at the point of the Big Bang. There was nothing at all preexisting to the Big Bang. You obviously do not understand the concept.



Everything began with the big bang, time, the universe and everything. It is all completely natural. There is no reason at all to add a magical being to the mix. Occam's razor asserts that if something is not necessary for an explanation cut it away. The explanation life, the universe, and everything, does not need a magical sky daddy. It is an unnecessary step beyond what is actually needed.



The 'Big Bang" is the originating event. If your God exists at all, it was created along with everything else in the "Big Bang."



There need be no "Belief" at all to assert that the "Big Bang" was the origin of all we know. It is a logical step from all of the facts around us. There is nothing at all logical about magical sky dads that write magical books and do magical things to little beings they created just to worship them. It's a silly story and you are being ripped off and conned by the oldest confidence scam in the world.
teska
2010-12-23 02:23:47 UTC
Religion was invented by man at the very beginning when they needed a way to explain all the wonderful, mysterious things that where happening. Now that science has found and explained the these mysterious things there is no more need to say its “gods” doing.



You ask why we continue to live in a life with no purpose, that’s up to the individual in most cases. Many people do live positive purposeful lives.



What is the purpose of holy people locking themselves away in a monastery and praying all day instead of getting out there and doing something positive? Animals don’t have religion and they get on just fine. Try doing something meaningful and stop believing in imaginary beings.
Jabber wock
2010-12-23 02:44:37 UTC
Well, you've asked about two very different things, and I might suggest you'd get fuller answers if you posted different questions.



Anyway, here goes:

"EVERYTHING- humans, thoughts, emotions, the universe, was formed by "galactic star dust""



Nope - matter formation really can't be described in those terms, and it certainly doesn't refer to any formation of the Universe.



In simple terms, we can say there was never a time when the Universe didn't exist in some form. Time is part of the Universe, and I think you'd agree that there cannot be a time of no time. So asking where did the Universe 'come from' is not a valid question as it makes an invalid presumption of prior non-existence.



That still allows us to have a beginning of time, which is really just a zero point of a scalar dimension. Similarly at that point all of space was of zero size. That's the initial state described by Big Bang theory, though the nature of that state is still at the frontiers of physics.



We still have to ask why there isn't nothing, and why the Universe is it as it is (e.g. Big Bang initial state), but that's a very different question, and one we don't yet have a confirmed answer to. This is at the frontier of research; there are hypotheses, but they're still works in progress. The current 'favourite' idea is called M-theory, a derivative of the earlier String-theories. This refers to an old Universe, possibly of infinite time, and that our local 'universe' (small u) is just a space-time 'bubble' that formed within it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_M-theory



In the meantime we don't jump to any conclusions as any such 'answer' would be indistinguishable from a fantasy.



As far as matter formation is concerned, this began to happen some time after time=0 in different phases, and atoms (mostly hydrogen) came to exist about 380,000 years after the beginning when the Universe had expanded and cooled enough to allow it.



This matter gathered in clumps because of gravity (one of the forces of the initial state) to form galaxies, stars and planets. Inside stars, light atoms are fused to become heavier ones, and later these are ejected at the end of the star's life. This eject then goes on to form other stars and planets, this time with such heavier atoms. Our planet and everything on it is largely composed of such heavy atoms, so in that sense we are largely composed of stardust. Alternatively, less poetically, we are nuclear waste!



There's a lot more detail to that in terms of star and planetary formation, but you'd be better to ask that one in a new question.



As for the "point to life", we each make up our own. I don't feel I'm some drone that can only receive operating instructions and a point to life from some hidden leader, I'm an autonomous person with my own nature, instincts, interests and feelings. I generally love life, and the freedom to take an interest in whatever I want. I care about my society and try to keep it orderly and functional and progressive, but I sometimes almost despair when I see the negative effect religion can have, e.g. here's a 'peace wall' in Belfast:

http://philchevalier.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/dscn0327.jpg



So I see religion a bit like an unhealthy drug dependency, where many people 'on it' cannot conceive of being autonomous, and feel they have to lie out some presumed "mission statement" of their own particular version, which can bring them into conflict with those who are different. Any prospect of coming 'off it' would be like cold turkey. As an ex-Christian myself I'm aware of the common view from that side. So your "seemingly pointless life" is just a view from a person hooked on a faith who cannot think of coping without it. Realty is very different.
2010-12-23 02:13:15 UTC
Your first problem is the sudden grouping together of all atheists. The ONLY thing atheists can agree on is that there is either a small amount or no credible evidence to suggest that god(s) exist.



The question, what existed before the 'Big Bang' which I think you asked, is a important question and the honest is answer, we do not know. The best minds that the world has to offer is currently attempting to answer that question and we simply have to wait and see.



Humanity influences my life. I want to better ourselves and to discover new things. I want to cure the sick, help the animals and help our species as a whole better themselves. I want to explore space, colonise new planets and well.. you get the picture.



The real question is why do you want there to be purpose? The purpose you have is the purpose you give yourself.



BUT... I would add, do not group atheists together because we do not have much else in common apart from agreeing that we do not believe or least believe enough evidence exists that points to a god(s).



You need to consult a person of physics/cosmology to get a better answer.
Entropy
2010-12-23 02:09:16 UTC
The pre -existing matter didn't make itself more complex. It would have formed a very simple form of life (such as RNA), perhaps randomly. Given that this event only had to happen once in a universe which is infinite in size, it is possible that this initial event (biogenesis) occurred by chance.



However, once you have a self replicating "thing" evolution can take over. Evolution is not drive by chance at all but be survival of the fittest. Eventually we end up with multicellular organisms which grow more and more complex and eventually develop brains. The brains can regulate the senses as well as memorise things that may be useful later. In general as we move up the evolutionary tree there is a trend toward more complicated and more powerful brains. The most complicated is what we have, which is capable of all kinds of stuff. Including instinct, and the instinct to carry on living is the strongest of all (and it would be, given anything lacking it would have died, not passing on genres (survival of the fittest again)). Combine this with a social drive (as humans are social, group animals) and you have a strong inclination toward living and helping others - and that's before adding on personality and personal experiences.



As for E=MC^2 it's used for conversion of matter to energy and energy to matter and antimatter - matter is not the same thing as energy, but it is possible to change between them.



Finally, atheists don't have the answer to everything, but we would rather use a tool such as science to try and find as many answers as possible through reason and observation, rather than using religon to try and fill in the gaps.
Peloristic Philosopher (A)
2010-12-23 02:13:14 UTC
The preexisting particles did not give itself purpose, it has had purpose for all of time. The compact sphere that was no larger than the head of a pin had been gathering potential energy from it's own gravity. One day the sphere's gravity could not handle the energy and it all burst out, thus making an explosion. Another theory you could look into would be the Multiverse theory where another universe collided with our universe/plane and made an explosion in both.



This sphere was eternal. It had exists always. No creator or initiator necessary.
John
2010-12-23 02:07:10 UTC
Atheists don't pretend to have the answers to everything. No one has them, and anyone who says he does is delusional. Science has come a far way since its beginnings, when people thought lightning was attributed to "god". Now we know better, but we still cannot explain what happened 13.8 billion years ago at the precise moment of the big bang. And can you blame us? It's one of the biggest questions EVER. However it doesn't mean that we never WILL explain it. And that's the difference between religion and science. Science doesn't pretend to know all the answers. If someone claims something exists (god) you must provide PROOF. Asking "Well where did everything come from?" doesn't prove a god exists. It's just asking the same question everyone else has asked since the beginning of time. If I told you right now that "a giant pink cat is out back in the lake right now, and it can walk on water," would you believe me? Hell no, because if I make a claim, I have to provide proof. Which is something religion always seems to fail at.
puredagnastyevil
2010-12-23 02:19:20 UTC
Alright, one more time. The only thing we atheists agree on is that we don't believe in gods. That's it. There is no thing beyond this that can be stated as our collective opinion. This is where things get confusing for you.



"Our" opinion isn't that everything was formed by "galactic star dust." Really, the only thing to do about this is to ask each atheist individually what they think. But as long as it's not a question about the belief in deities, then it's not about atheism, since isn't applicable to all atheists.



This is why you can't say "atheists think this...," without it being a misrepresentation from the get-go.
pittyakker
2010-12-23 02:23:34 UTC
"please do not misrepresent your opinion in a poor fashion- making immature comments, when i ask you to explain to me how you find the need to defend your seemingly pointless life? " "what influences you- an atheist, to continue to live?"



It is these sort of immature and ill-informed statements and questions which makes atheists lose patience with questioners. Why do you assume that my life is any less worth while than yours? Atheists are people too.



To be honest, I don't spend my entire life wondering how the universe came about. I leave that to the scientists, who haven't fully explained it yet.



It is very easy to come to an immediate conclusion based upon something written thousands of years ago by people who had no access to any form of scientific knowledge. More difficult to spend years questioning and researching.



You say "if i am wrong on my facts, please help me understand." then immediately say "i am certain of things in my belief- this means i will not have to explain it because my god is great"



If you are so certain then you are not open to alternative theories, so it seems to me that you will not accept either constructive criticism nor anything which challenges your view.



I assume your rant comes from Randall Niles (Source 1)
Sirensong sunshine
2010-12-23 02:18:30 UTC
"if your arguement is based on pre existing matter that spontaneously gave itself PURPOSE, then that initself is also a contradiction.. is it not?"



It isn't, and never has been, my argument



We exist as a result of billions of years of change, from the big bang (or big bounce) through the formation of planets and the eventual formation of life, through evolution to now. We don't (yet) know what happened before the big bang - or even if there was a before - it's like asking "what's south of the south pole".



The LHD is attempting to find out how matter formed, so you'll have that answer in a few years.



As for how consciousness happened, well we know its a product of brain chemistry, even if we don't (yet) know exactly how.



As for my 'purpose' it's the same as yours - whatever each of us wants it to be. You think you have some divine purpose because that's what your religion tells you. Fine. You've decided your purpose that way (even though you've convinced yourself that it was 'given' to you). I've decided that my purpose is to live as well as I can and hopefully leave the world a better place. The difference between us is that you think after you die you live forever, whereas there is no evidence of that so I think it's nonsense - and I'd much rather live for the life I have now than waste my life waiting to die.



Your problem is that when you don't understand something you default to "goddidit" and if we all took that attitude we would forever live in ignorance, never bothering to find out what really happened
The Answerer
2010-12-23 02:17:17 UTC
First of all let's stop misrepresenting people.



Atheists lack belief in a deity. This in no way defines their belief in any form of 'galactic star dust' and this sound like some sort of creationist misnomer and holds very negative connotations already.



I can't speak for all atheists but most atheists are proponents of big bang theory which is the strongest science today surrounding the origin of the universe. Big Bang theory says in its simplest definition that all space-time expanded from a dense singularity of energy some 14 billion years ago.



I can't get into the details of this, but i can strongly say that the big bang theory has no mention of 'galactic stay dust'.



As for your questioning of atheist philosophy, we have to first establish that atheists are not atheists because of any philosophical or moral security . We are atheists because we accept reality. We accept the evidence in front of us, or in the case of a deity, lack thereof. Furthermore that the universe is indeed quite a random occurrence and this is becomingly more and more apparent through the scientific method, the strongest and most widely regarded philosophy that all mankind has.



Theists on the other hand base their beliefs in their need to find purpose. I for one don't need to find 'purpose' in the universe to see the facts of the universe.



I would ask you that, why does the universe need purpose, or rather, why do we as humans need a purpose for simply existing? To accept that purpose does not exist requires less rationalizations than to quantify purpose in the universe.



Finally, to say that 'why to continue to live as an atheist' is actually a fairly reasonable point. As we see life with no ultimate goal or meaning, we have little to look forward to in an eternal or spiritual sense. To try to rationalize this from my point of view, I live simply because i am here. I see no need in trying to aggrandize our being with claims of a God or Gods. The knowledge of death and eventual emptiness gives my life urgency, gives me in a broad sense, some purpose. This is the only experience ill get, why waste it instead of trying to search for a God that isnt there?



Purpose is a human construct. We try to find purpose in the universe because we know death is the end. I think the only way to strive peace in our very short lives is to accept that purpose is non-existent, and to try and to do what is best for society and perhaps we may be remembered.
Gabe M
2010-12-23 02:13:57 UTC
We are defending the one rule that remains true throughout the entire universe. Logic. I am sorry if your opinion of a perfectly sensible group of people have been befuddled by ignorant poseurs attempting to slander peoples ideological and spiritual grounding. No, not all atheists believe that everything we are and are surrounded by is created from some giant cosmic event, the main theme of atheism is admittance of not knowing, and attempting to understand the world through a calm and logical thought process. I personally just don't see how some all powerful being would see purpose in creating, well. Everything that exists, as everything seems to be doing a whole lot of nothing. But for all i know we could just be parts of a cell making up another larger being, slowly and unknowingly being forced to bend to its will by the manipulation of outside forces, much as the cellular structure within our own bodies? With that being said, i applaud your ability to have faith, although while i was younger and more ignorant, i hated people who practiced religion, i now realize that as of now, there is no correct way to see the world around us. And in ending, i ask you this, not to offend, but to make you think. Why do you feel that you need to give yourself a purpose at all? I often wonder if we are both wrong, myself for thinking everything must be quantified and understood. And practitioners of religious spirituality, continually ignoring their own mortality by serving a deity of their own choosing. Also, there are 21 different major world religions, and those with endless subgroups. So should you practice and believe in this religion with all of yourself, please do so if it makes you happy. But know that if i am wrong for following "logic", and there is in fact one supreme being (or beings) that there is less than a 5% chance that you are in fact correct in practicing whatever religion you practice.
A Yahoo
2010-12-23 02:02:19 UTC
I have to admit when I first read "your seemingly pointless life" I took it as an insult. And now that I realize your approach, and think back, I wonder why that would be the wrong way to perceive it. Who's calling my life pointless? Who says I need to defend my existence? Not me.



Everything else is just a question of scientific theory. Most of it we don't actually believe (ie. everything that exsists... was formed by "galactic star dust"). Nonetheless atheism was a valid position long before quantum theory and remains so today.
m320753
2010-12-23 14:49:31 UTC
i try to be a spiritual person, and i had talks with atheists and for every point you make they will counterpoint. and visa versa. all you can say is what if you're wrong you'll go to hell for eternity, if i'm wrong i'll go where dogs and cats go. geno auriemo coach of uconn women basketball was aked during diana tarausi's years what make your team different than other top teams? he answered we have diana and they don't". well we have Jesus and athiests don't so don't let them get to you. i wonder what ever happened to that o'hare lady, maybe God called her to a sit down? the only reason they harass and torment is because they try to convince each other that their way is correct. but they have to do it everyday. hand them a piece of dirt and say make me an universe
?
2010-12-23 02:08:17 UTC
LOL. Your the one saying that my life is pointless. Thats your opinion. However my opinion is that if you need a sky daddy to have a meaningful life then that sucks. I go to school, I learn, I have a career that I love, I have a family with kids whom I love. Thats doesn't seem pointless to me.



Which sky daddy you would pick out of the 100's there are and have been, what if you life is pointless and you choose the wrong sky daddy and burn in hell forever? Wasn't your life really pointless wasting time worshiping the wrong sky daddy?



As for particles and blah blah blah, it is completely illogical to say that because science doesn't know, one of the 100's of sky daddys must have done it.
numbnuts222
2010-12-23 02:53:09 UTC
Whether matter pre-existed or not is in the realm of theoretical physics, not atheism. As for purpose, just because matter and energy ended up changing, which it can do naturally, why do you assume it must have purpose?
?
2010-12-23 02:02:47 UTC
The only thing that is true about ALL atheists is that we do not believe in the existence of a higher power. That's it. No god, no devil, no allah. no sun god.



What each of us believes as to how the world was created, or whether we even care or not, is a personal question for each of us to answer individually. Since I'm not interested in speaking for anyone other than myself, I can't answer this question for you.



The only thing I can say that I'm sure every atheist agrees on, is that the world was not created by god.
Bored now
2010-12-23 02:02:36 UTC
1. Not all atheists agree on the origins of the universe.

2. We are not all scientists

3. We all have different beliefs as to the meaning of life. For instance, mine is that we are here

as all animals are, to continue the survival of our species. What happens along the way is

a truly wonderful bonus.
2010-12-23 02:02:26 UTC
Let me put it to you this way... if I don't know something about the universe, why should I default to a supernatural "explanation"?



I know enough about how natural systems work to understand that there are a lot of natural explanations out there that I simply don't know (astrophysics, quantum physics, that sort of stuff. I'm an ecologist BTW so I know how biological systems work). My ignorance of explanations doesn't require that I invoke a deity. It simply means that I don't know stuff.



That's what I can't understand about theists. For some reason "I don't know" automatically equals "God did it". That makes no sense to me. Perhaps you can explain that mindset to me.
?
2010-12-23 02:03:10 UTC
There is no purpose. there are effects to causes. reactions to chemical process. no purpose. there are answers, not just one single answer. the only reason we ask questions like "what is the purpose of life". is simply because we hear questions like that spouted on the media. I find life much more interesting understanding this process. And i would suggest you research into science further. :)
Shannah
2010-12-23 02:53:07 UTC
You are right, I, myself, have been really taking a good long at points like this and atheist belief just isn't making much sense to me anymore. Thank you for your inspiration, which offers more support and kindness than my fellow atheists on this site who seem to be on this site only to exercise their morbid sense of humor and pseudo intelligence, moreso than take these facts into consideration.

Your point definately gives me more to consider. Thanks so much!
?
2010-12-23 02:09:19 UTC
All atheist believe in one thing only, there are no gods/deities.



I don't exactly believe in the big bang theory.
Hell Kitty
2010-12-23 01:59:00 UTC
Why christians need to defend their lives, if they will wake up in Heaven?

Apparently "not defending life" is not a suicide, since responsibility of death would be on another person or god(natural disaster,sickness etc)
Vicky
2010-12-23 01:59:20 UTC
Okay. I've given him about two decades to explain himself. Nothing, yet.



Maybe he loads in slow.



Reality's graphics are alot different than make believe.



Guess I'll keep waiting.



.. Not really.
2010-12-23 02:03:12 UTC
Stop dogging the Atheists. Not like you're suffering from their science. Now go and read the Bible, or something...
emenech
2010-12-23 02:22:15 UTC
God Almighty says, He had created everything from nothing.



When ever He want, He says, BE, then every thing will be there.



Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth, and when He decrees an affair, He only says to it, BE, so there it is.

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #117)



She said: My Lord! when shall there BE a son (born) to I me, and man has not touched me? He said: Even so, Allah creates what He pleases; when He has decreed a matter, He only says to it, BE, and it is.

( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #47)



It BEseems not Allah that He should take to Himself a ! son, glory to BE Him; when He has decreed a matter He only says to it "BE," and it is.

( سورة مريم , Maryam, Chapter #19, Verse #35)



He it is Who gives life and brings death, so when He decrees an affair, He only says to it: BE, and it is.

( سورة غافر , Ghafir, Chapter #40, Verse #68)
2010-12-23 02:13:57 UTC
You aren't bright enough to understand the answer so just stick with "goddidit".
?
2010-12-23 02:03:55 UTC
Please clarify, are you asking about the purpose of life or the origin of matter? Your question is unclear.
Bobby Hill
2010-12-23 01:59:08 UTC
your confusion begins at "galactic star dust" and that renders the rest of your silly question not worth reading.
?
2010-12-23 01:58:24 UTC
Show me the evidence, and not all Atheist claim that the big bang theory is true you clueless mexican.


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