Question:
Jehovah's Witnesses: How could someone lower than God be able to resolve the problem of sin?
Sonny Daye
2010-06-09 23:15:50 UTC
Ultimately all sin is against God. This axiom being true, then God would be the only one who could resolve the problem of sin.

Since Jesus is the one who came into this sinful world in order to deal with the problem of sin by dying and shedding His precious blood for all the sins of mankind, doesn’t this then mean that Jesus would have to be equal with the Father?

A president doesn’t send his secretary to settle world-shaking problems, so Jesus must not be “second rate” to the Father since He took care of the problem of sin.

The sin of Adam was horrendous. It separated all of mankind from God, so how could someone having a status lower than the Father be able to resolve the problem of sin?
Twelve answers:
Twomaro
2010-06-09 23:35:01 UTC
To redeem mankind, Jesus could not be equal with his Father. Rather he needed to be equal to the first man, Adam. The Scriptures call him a "corresponding ransom". He couldn't be less or more than Adam.



To be successful as man's Savior Jesus had to have the capacity to sin and to die as Adam did. God has neither.



Yes it was God's plan and he deserves the ultimate credit for saving mankind. Jesus certainly gave the glory to his Father. Remember that he said "the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing". But how thankful we are that Jesus was a faithful, obedient Son to his Father.
2016-04-15 04:27:58 UTC
I am not one of Jehovah's Witnesses but I am a student of history and religion. I do not go along with the doctrine that Jesus is God Almighty. I don't see this as a theological problem. The fact that Jesus is the son of God who was sent by the Father does not prove that Jesus is one and the same in substance before and after his birth as a human being. So many scriptures to validify that he is a separate person and not a part of a trinity to show his perfect sacrifice is sufficient for the redemption of mankind's sins. Jesus prayed to his Father that his followers would be one just as he and his Father are one, in thought and purpose only--John17. Surely you would agree he was not saying they would be a part of a Godhead. Many verses can be used to clarify Christ's unique oneness with God even though he was not the Almighty in human form and after his ascension to heaven. Think about it, could God Almighty Himself bodily enter into human form and redeem mankind! It would not be a ransom of equal balance for mankind would it?--1 Ki 8:27; Mt 20:28; 1 Ti 2:6; 1 Co 15:45. The concept of the trinity is being promoted in your question and so there is a biased view from your standpoint. A serious look at religious history is in order to see that this doctrine is of pagan thought, along with a personal study of the entire bible canon will not give support to this teaching, but will prove that Christ is not a part of a trinity doctrine. With love in Christ, C
keiichi
2010-06-10 13:05:38 UTC
Question: How could someone lower than God be able to resolve the problem of sin?



Since God is immortal and can not die (1Ti 1:17) he had his Son changed (morph) into a perfect human embryo (Phil 2:7). Having the same glory as the perfect man Adam (Psa 8:5) and being lower then angels (Hbr 2:7,9), God resolved the problem by having his Son die with out him making the same error as our previous father, Adam did.



This is in turn bought humanity back from death.



"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
2010-06-11 18:52:01 UTC
I will explain this in hopes someone actually gets it. When Jesus walked the earth, he humbled himself and no longer considered himself God but rather just a man. He lived the perfect life as a man and died for the sins of all men. After he was killed, he was resurrected and he asked the Father to return him to his Glory. Of course, the Father was pleased with his son and did exalt him.



Therefore God exalted him to the highest place

and gave him the name that is above every name,

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11 )
2010-06-09 23:35:49 UTC
A shopper buys a pottery vessel and uses it. It gets a crack in it which makes it unusable.

The shopper then returns the vessel to the shop as damaged.



Does she get to keep the potter in exchange? . .no



Jehovah is the maker of man. Satan accused Him of making mankind flawed in the first place.



Jesus HAD to be a real 'human' to answer the slander that man was morally inclined to be greedy and self serving as satan accused . Job chapter 2.



If Jehovah stood in place of Adam (as Jesus) for that test . .then that is like re-firing the maker of the pot . . instead of the pottery.



Jesus is a separate being who offered to answer Satan's false accusation by standing as a witness to Jehovahs rightness as he made men along with His rightness to rule . . and set the standards to be obeyed.



*Jesus is the second (replacement) pot . . as a made object of the original potter that proves the potter is a skilled craftsman.*



EDIT: Jesus is not a literal 'pot'. :] He had to be an exact equal to Adam = a flesh and blood human in perfect condition . . to stand up and pass the test that Adam failed.

If Jehovah God ( as a man) came as Jesus . .then the test would be bogus. Jehovah cannot die . . so the battle of wits was amongst His created sons.

Satan (created son of God, now alienated) made accusations that Jehovah had created flawed humans . .and had lied to them about the authority He had over them . Job chapter 2. Jesus ( 1st created being) answered the accusations in 2 ways.

1 # He remained faithful to Gods sovereignty under test.

2 # He remained perfect to morals and actions until death . . . things Adam failed to do.



Satan has been thoroughly proved a liar.



.
2010-06-10 00:05:45 UTC
Jesus is not equal to the Father and never claimed to be. Jesus prayed to the Father and spoke of doing His will and not his own. (Matthew 26:39) Jesus spoke of himself as being an individual. (John 8:17, 18) In fact, he said: "...If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) (Please notice: GREATER than...not EQUAL to.)



I think you would really benefit from the book "What Does the Bible Really Teach?" You can contact your local Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses or go to www.watchtower.org for a free copy or to read it online (click on the Publications tab to find it). Go to Chapter 5: The Ransom--God's Greatest Gift.
Michael Servetus
2010-06-09 23:30:32 UTC
"For since death is through a man, resurrection of the dead is also through a man." 1 Cor 15:21



Perfect justice requires an equal balance. Death was through the unfaithfulness of one man. Redemption was through the complete faithfulness of one man.



There is no scripture that says God must die for one man's sin. A man for a man was needed. Let the Bible speak for itself.
MsTerry
2010-06-09 23:31:54 UTC
John 10:29:My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.



Jesus declared that His Father is greater than all. John 10:29: "...for the Father is greater than I"

So it was like, God, the Father, gave His son the authority to save life and to forgive sin.

John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." Meaning if you believe in Jesus, then you also believe in the God, the Father. Luke 10:16 "he who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."
Fred
2010-06-09 23:28:50 UTC
> Ultimately all sin is against God.



I agree with you completely. Sin is a word that has no meaning at all outside of the context of an imaginary fairy. Therefore, only christians can sin, and atheists cannot, since we do not believe in such silliness. There is no such thing as sin, just as there are no imaginary fairies.
2010-06-10 23:41:46 UTC
Greetings,



When you corrupt the clear statements and teachings from God's Word with personal philosophy you can only end up with beliefs which are unsupported by Scripture.



Where in scripture does it say Almighty God had to die (or even could die) for puny humans? Where does it indicate that a ransom had to be *in excess* of that which was lost?





Even more important the ideas expressed in your comments are directly contradicted by what the Bible says about the ransom. The Bible holds no implication of "theocide." Scripture always says God's *Son,* came as a *human* and died as the ransom, never Jehovah God. It also explicitly states that this *one* human death paid the ransom for *all* humankind.



Let's examine what the Scriptures say was required, according to justice, to pay the ransom.



First Rom. 5:12ff says that "Sin came into the world through ONE MAN...For if the many died by the trespass of the *one man*, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the ONE MAN, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many...For if, by the trespass of the ONE MAN, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the ONE MAN, Jesus Christ. 18. Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for ALL MEN, so also the result of *one act* of righteousness was justification that brings life for ALL MEN. For just as through the disobedience of the ONE MAN the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the ONE MAN the many will be made righteous." -NIV



Now, what was the ransom price according to this Scripture? It was not Almighty God himself but was ONE MAN who corresponded exactly to Adam. It says explicitly that "death spread to ALL humans" through ONE MAN and then through ONE MAN life was restored to ALL humans!



Next, 1Cor.15:44-45 irrefutably equates Christ to "the first man Adam" calling him the "last Adam." Again, just as the one man Adam lost life for all humans, the one perfect man Christ gained it back for all humans. 1Corinthians 15:22 confirms this: "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. "



2 Corinthians 5:14 also disputes any idea that it would take a divine being to pay the ransom price. Because *one man* died it was equal to all men dying. The price for all men was paid because of the perfect man Jesus dying.



All these verses show that if all men could lose life through one man then it is obvious that all men would regain life through one man.



Other scriptures confirm that when the "ONE MAN" Christ died it was as if all humans had died (2Cor.5:21).



That is why the ransom is called a "substitute" or "corresponding" (ANTILUTRON) one. Because it was a substitute for all human life and it corresponded exactly to what the perfect man Adam lost.



"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, A MAN, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for ALL..."--1Tim.2:5-6



Here again it clearly states that "ONE MAN" paid the equivalent price for ALL. The Almighty God and creator was not the ANTILUTRON for puny humans.



Hebrews 2:7-9 says that Christ as a human and "less than angels" still "tasted death for EVERY human."



The Bible repeatedly states that it was "flesh and blood" or "human life" that he gave to ransom ALL mankind not a divine nature (Jn. 6:50-58; Mt.20:28; Heb. 2:14-15).



Isa.53:11-12 says it was not "God" but God's "servant" who would pay the ransom. Again, ONE individual would carry the sins of many by his death (Cf. Isa.53:4-6).





What do we see from these? Again, according to explicit Scripture, and not some personal assumptions, the ransom was paid by "ONE MAN." It doesn't say some god-man or even an angel, but "flesh and blood," a human.



The Scriptures clearly state that ONE HUMAN lost eternal life, and ONE HUMAN life bought it back. A perfect human provided the ransom which met the legal requirements of divine justice. The one man Christ could provide the Ransom because he was a *perfect* man like Adam, but without sin (1Pet.1:18,19; 2:22; Heb.4:15; 7:26; 9:14; 2Cor.5:21).





God made the requirements and saw to it that they were met. How could one man ransom millions? The same way one man could condemned millions. Just as Adam had innumerable millions within his genes, Jesus also had innumerable millions within his genes, and so the price of divine justice was paid. "A life for a life."





The scriptures never say Almighty GOD had to die. The term "ransom" denotes an "equal payment," not an over- payment. Justice does not demand more to be paid than necessary. Really, can we reasonably elevate humans to the level that it would require God, the Almighty Creator to die as a ransom? How presumptuous this would be! Please explain to me how justice would require the Almighty to die as a propitiation for any creatures. Show me any Scripture that even insinuates such an idea. Show me how this would not be a contradiction of God's Word: "Surely you, Yahweh, are from ancient times, my holy God, who never dies!"-- Hab.1:12 JER (Dan.6:26; Ps. 90:1, 2 etc.)



Thus Almighty God cannot die, yet Jesus did die. Thus Jesus is Not God (Acts 5:30; 1Cor. 15:3; cf. Nu 23:19).



If Jesus died, he cannot be God, for God cannot die. If Jesus is God, he cannot have died, for God cannot die. If Jesus did not in fact die then the ransom for mankind has not been paid. The Biblical teaching that Jesus died and was resurrected by God proves that Jesus and God are distinct and not equal in essence or ontologically



Many Trinitarians try to avoid the contradiction in their belief by resorting to a "two nature" theory. However, the argument that only the human part of Jesus died is a denial that God died for us. So the doctrine of the double nature of Christ not only conflicts with Scripture, it conflicts with the Trinitarian doctrine itself. If Jesus is the whole person and Jesus died, he cannot be immortal Deity. Trinitarians argue that only Deity is sufficient to provide the necessary atonement. But if the divine nature did not die, the ransom for mankind could not have been paid according to Trinitarian belief.





Jesus Christ, ONE perfect *human*, satisfied all the conditions required to balance God's scales of justice. Since Christ corresponded to the perfect pre-fall Adam he could pay the price of redemption that would release ALL of Adam's offspring from the enslavement to sin which came through the first human. This is a clear and easily understood teaching from God's own Word.



Yours,



BAR-ANERGES
Omar
2010-06-09 23:29:22 UTC
Don't you read the bible????
Dumb Blonde
2010-06-09 23:23:36 UTC
wtf?


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
Loading...