Do atheists really think that everyone who claims they converted from atheism to theism?

Question

based on an experience is either deluded or dishonest?

Is it fair of me to ask how you know that? How is dismissing such claims a priori consistent with willingness to go where the evidence leads you?

Answer 1

"Do atheists really think that everyone who claims they converted from atheism to theism

based on an experience is either deluded or dishonest?"



Technically, yes. Given my world view.

Or that I'm deluded. Given my world view.

Since I don't, can't, completely rule out the second line, I'm in no position to get dogmatic or superior over the first line.



It's something still open enough for discussion, at least with a theist who thinks my position is deluded or dishonest but is not dogmatically superior about it.



No a priori certainties, just starting from where I've arrived.



Oliver Cromwell, in a letter to the general assembly of the Church of Scotland:

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken."

History does not record whether he had the rare gift of being able to take his own advice.

Hoping for "... and I'll do the same" here, from Oliver, is probably being a bit optimistic.

Answer 2

Do you really think everyone who claims they've seen Elvis alive after his death is either deluded or dishonest? How about people who can hear voices talking in their head? Alien abductees?



Is it fair of me to ask how you know that? How is dismissing such claims a priori consistent with willingness to go where the evidence leads you?



Of course the answer is that these claims don't get a priori dismissed. They get evaluated and dismissed because the best explanation for the facts, that someone had such an experience like that, is either "delusion" (I don't like that word) or lying.

Answer 3

I would not say everyone who claims they converted to theism after being an atheist is lying. Well technically, if you agree that we are all born atheists, then every theist did. But obviously you are referring to adults who claim to have been atheist for a period of time and then converted to a religion.



I am sure there are some, but I am also pretty sure it is quite rare. Many of the people who make this claim also mention several things about their experience as an atheist of which I have never heard an actual atheist claim. Or they have a fundamental misunderstanding of scientific theories that are often the backbone of an atheist's views on the world. These examples are paraphrased, but I am sure you've seen something like them in the past (generally with much worse grammar and spelling).

-Examples-

1. "I used to be an atheist, then I realized that we couldn't have come from monkeys. Have you ever seen a monkey turn into a person. It had to be god."

2. "I hated god and converted to atheism."

3. Other sayings similar to the above that are more often than not a religious person's mistaken view on what atheism is.

Answer 4

It depends, an atheist could become a Buddhist and still not believe in gods, but show me an atheist that became a worshiper of any god and I'll show you either a liar, or a mentally deluded person. Atheists will never accept a philosophy based completely on a lack of evidence.

Answer 5

I think it's interesting that atheists claim nobody ever converted from atheism to theism, because they would have to suspend judgement. However, they get very upset when I tell them there is no such thing as an ex-christian. Why would they care if they never were something they don't believe makes sense?



I think that's why most atheists refuse to look into things like ID and creation. They won't read books on apologetics, because they may find things they never considered before. They may even change their minds about their atheism. But, that would ruin the great hatred they have for God, ultimately manifesting itself in ignoring him, or saying he doesn't exist. I think it's really simple, but they get really upset when I point this out. Of course, their getting upset proves to me that I am right.

Answer 6

Yes, I believe people who believe in gods are deluded but that is not because I dismiss their claim a priori. Its because whenever anyone tells me gods are real I ask them why they think that and then look at their evidence being willing to be convinced if it ever actually is evidence.



So far I have looked at the claims of loads of Christians, a fair number of Muslims and a handful of Hindus and read lots of books recommended by them. I have explored 'miracles' 'answered prayers' 'near death experiences' 'proof of creation' 'proof of souls' and so much more. At the moment, no one set of believers has any more miraculous experiences than any other or than chance. No gods have ever been known to appear in two cultures who have never met, no god has ever given any peoples accurate information of the universe and all of them have given false information. If any evidence of any gods ever emerges I will become a theist immediately.

Answer 7

I always wonder how they came to take the label "atheist" in the first place.



I often wonder if they actually ever really considered religion before, or if they simply held no opinion on it so now they claim they were "atheist".



Not saying there is no atheists that ever convert, but it just seems unlikely an atheist that really weighed the evidence before would then somehow find some great evidence to convert them self and then not be able to provide it to other atheists.

Answer 8

No.

I don't bother to check out the vast majority of such claims, as they have no interest whatsoever for me. The very few that I have checked out *have* been either delusions, dishonesty, imagination, or ridiculously fallacious thinking.



If somebody else claims to have some "experience" that comes from a claimed magical god-thing, then it's up to THEM to show evidence their claim has merit. Nobody has ever shown an evidence that any such claim has any merit -- so the claims are worthless. I "dismiss" them because nobody making them ever shows evidence to back them up.

Answer 9

I know it because when they talk about their supposed former lives as atheists they spout all the lies believers are fed about atheism. They don't seem to have any personal experience with atheism at all; all they know is the propaganda they were fed.



Would you believe that someone was a former Christian if they talked about all the time they spent drinking blood, worshiping statues and beating up gays back when they were Christians? You'd probably immediately see that they had no first hand experience of Christianity at all, wouldn't you?



Same with those supposed "former atheists."



Sometimes people call themselves atheists when they stop going to church for a while, even though they still believe. Then when they start going back to church they say they converted to Christianity when that's not what happened at all.

Answer 10

Yep. And I think you ask this very question because you have a level of doubt in your own religion you are not willing to fully disclose here.



How do "they" know their theism is true? The very answers they give are consistent with being deluded and dishonest in other areas of life as well. It's always vague, incoherent and avoids exact specifics.



So, that IS where the evidence leads me. Time and again.



-atheist

.

Answer 11

Personal testimony is well known to be unreliable. Ask any cop. Plus, most people have lost the ability to distinguish concept from their actual life experience. Most people think that believing is some sort of knowing, when in reality believing is just another word for not-knowing.



edit: Nope, doesn't bother me a bit. I have looked into enough of these stories to be certain that if one such story comes along that legitimately bears scrutiny, I will hear of it. Like that doctor that had the NDE, or the little kid that described heaven.

Answer 12

On this forum, given the high propensity for Christians to troll Atheists and vice-versa, the chances of such a claim being dishonest are very high.

.

Answer 13

I'm not an atheist (though I lean towards atheism).



But I would think that an atheist became one after rejecting a beliefs in any deity (due to lack of evidence). It seems extremely illogical for an atheist to turn off reason and believe.



I would say those people weren't truly atheists, but agnostics.



Whatever experience you have, unless you had tangible evidence, an atheist wouldn't consider it as real

Answer 14

I have got to check my house for bugs, recorders, cameras, etc...



It is just UNbelievable that so many just KNOW how an X atheist came to be a theist !!! I find it remarkable that so many of you can read minds, know the why, how , when and where of my life !!



tsk, tsk........ and so with your *sound logic* of *it just can NOT happen*,it would also mean that any and ALL

X Christians never were Christians in the first place ...



Thanks so much for clearing that up by the way... Because so many of them, x christians come unglued when I or other Christians say that.... Now maybe they will know we speak the truth...



Thanks so much for setting the record straight....



Child of God - X atheist



PS, I am going right now to check for all your spying equipment!!!

Answer 15

Some people are gullible and may be an atheist when around atheists but change to theist when arounf theists because they lack the abillity to think for themselves. While it has been shown that on the whole atheists are smarter than theists that does not mean all atheists are smart......

Answer 16

Seriously, Michael, atheists don't accept personal experience as proof that god exists. Indeed any interpretation of personal experience that leads one to god is the result of an existing confirmation bias in god's favor. No atheist has a confirmation bias in god's favor. Agnostics might but not atheists.

Answer 17

I believe that most people confuse the words atheist and agnostic. I believe that an atheist does not change their point of view about religion and things regarding that subject, but an agnostic can change their mind, most of the time it is because of personal experience, they say to have 'experienced' or 'felt' something.

Answer 18

Because usually the "evidence" relies on "Oh, I read the Bible" and NOBODY who was ever an atheist (from a real, philosophical viewpoint) would have read a contradictory book of myths and fables and "suddenly" concluded such a book now deserves to be idol-worshipped.

Answer 19

Interestingly, there are many evangelical Christians who claim that it is impossible for Christians to abandon the faith in favor of atheism. Similarly, there is widespread spread skepticism that homosexuals can become heterosexual, or vice versa. In general, people don't seem to put much stock in free will.



Free will is God's design. He made us radically free, with the capability of serving him or serving ourselves. We can become the person we choose to be, whether God's friends or his enemies. It's our choice.



Deut 30:19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Choose life so that you and your descendants may live, 20 loving the Lord your God, obeying him, and holding fast to him; for that means life to you and length of days, so that you may live in the land that the Lord swore to give to your ancestors, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.



Cheers,

Bruce

Answer 20

Yes. It would be fair to say that "real" atheists demand "evidence as proof of god". Since there is no evidence, I'd say it would be correct to dismiss their claim of being an atheist in the first place.

Answer 21

No. It's also not fair for you to ask because you haven't shown that your assertion is true. I've known two who did just that. One was experiencing extreme social pressure to convert; the other was schizophrenic. Others fall for the traps of religion through various means.

Answer 22

this is slightly ironic. Atheists accuse theists of being closed minded and not open to any reasoning and thus impossible to reason with: "There is no point talking to me about atheism, because whatever you say I will come up with something that proves me to be true".

This question is slightly hypocritical in that you are basically say: "There is no point saying anyone really converts to theism, and whatever you say I will come up with something that proves me to be true".

Answer 23

It would not surprise me to find a few in there just making it up. Of course, I would not be surprised to find some who are telling the truth.

Answer 24

I don't believe a single true atheist converted to any theistic religion. Otherwise, they'd have given their proof of existence of deities.

Answer 25

Yes. I think they are delusional or dishonest. I know that because there is no evidence that supports the existence of god.

Answer 26

I don't believe a single claim of that kind. No evidence leads you to any religion - it's as simple as that.

Answer 27

If atheists convert to Christianity, it's because of emotional or traumatic incidents they've had in the past. Atheists are not stupid enough to buy your prehistoric fairy tales.

Answer 28

WOW!!!!! I just read the replies so far..... talk about being closed-minded. I love the fact that in past posts some of these same people have spoken about how "logical" they are, and yet they deny logic when it is used against them. To the contrary of what some have said here, yes... one can form a logical opinion based on individual experiences. To say that it cannot is so totally absurd as to be mind-blowing that anyone would say that.

Answer 29

You do know that God doesn't really exist...right?



I feel like when I told my little brother that Santa Claus didn't exist....

Answer 30

ive never heard of anyone saying that

Answer 31

The question is straw man gibberish.

Answer 32

I don't really think there are any instances of that happening.

Answer 33

This question is redundant and therefore invalid.

Answer 34

yes ... there is no evidence of any god, regardless of what one may have 'experienced' ...

Answer 35

IDK. Are theists who convert to atheism based on an experience deluded or delusional?