Question:
God gave us free will...?
.vato.
2006-10-12 07:41:00 UTC
This is an honest question. Please do not get rude, immature, or just put biblical verses on here. I several bibles and I can read them myself. If you cannot contain yourself--just don't answer the question.

Since God gave us free will, who are we as Christians to tell another person (regardless of their religion) what they can and can not do? Basically why should we be able to take that God given right away from a person? Don't you think on the day they are judged they will still be judged the same regardless if we make things legal or illegal?

This is pertaining to legalizing gay marriage, abortion, and many other things I've noticed we force others NOT to do.
46 answers:
2006-10-12 07:43:36 UTC
Bloody hell, am I... am I AGREEING with a Christian? What's the world coming to?



That's such a good point. I suppose you'll get answers along the lines of "We're only trying to help" or even "We use our free will to save others" or some other such nonsense.



Good work lady, good work.
elizabeth_ashley44
2006-10-16 18:38:29 UTC
Here's the deal. They're not just views to the people who believe them. They're fact. And, if you really think about it, they're fact whether you believe it or not. So it's not imposing views upon other people- it's simply making God's laws the laws for everyone. A true Christian can't argue with this logic- again, it's not just a belief, it's a fact. Making something a law doesn't take away a person's free will. They can freely will themselves to break those laws. People do it all the time with crimes EVERYONE has deemed inappropriate like murdering for a pair of sneakers. Making it a law or not making it a law won't change whether people choose to do that particular thing. True, there are some people who will smoke cigarettes because they are legal and won't smoke marijuana because it is illegal...but you and I both know there are loads more people who don't care if it's legal. The same can be said for gay marriage and abortion.



With all of that said, our governmental officials are ELECTED representatives. They should represent the views of their constituents. If the majority of their constituents feel that abortion is wrong, I see no harm in making abortion illegal. Of course, our country is greatly divided on these issues. If enough support one way or the other could be gained on a state level, I could see that being a "fair" way to look at it. The laws in California are not always appropriate for the citizens of North Carolina. If the majority of citizens in NC don't want gay marriage to be legalized, I see no reason why it should. The jury is still out for many people as to whether homosexuality is a natural thing or a nurtured thing. No one can argue the color of one's skin being a natural thing (in case people bring up slavery/racial issues to compare to homosexuality).



As for your original quesiton, "Who are we as Christians to tell another person what they can and can not do?"...we're children of God simply relaying what God has told us we can and can not do. With that said, the Bible does say that each man must work out his own salvation with fear and trembling. It's a personal free will choice. If you feel the government should reflect that personal choice and so do the rest of your fellow citizens, make it so. This goes for people on both sides of the issues. We've deemed other concepts to be crimes such as murder and adultery, which are just as morally debatable as homosexuality and abortion.
C
2006-10-12 07:54:57 UTC
God gave us free will, but society has to have some laws in it and those will naturally reflect the morals of the people in society.



Laws against Rape, Murder and Incest are obvious, but there are those who would argue that we have no right to tell those people that they can not do those either.



Abortion is Murder to us, same as if you killed an elderly person for not being productive, again natural law.



Gay Marriage, I can see both sides, honestly, but I will side with keeping the family one man and one woman.



It is not about forcing beliefs on anyone, by not getting an Abortion you are not following ALL of God's laws, just natural law.



Taking away free will would mean forcing people to believe in God and most likely, the beliefs of one group. Like in Iran.



But most Christians know that without free will to Love God, there cannot be a real Love for God. You will never see a large number of Christians calling for a Religious theocracy, that is a scare tactic by the left wing.



By the way, Abortion is legal up to the very time of birth in the US, so if we are forcing our morals on others, we are doing a very bad job of it.



Hope this helps.



Peace, and God Bless you.
silver_cross_pendant
2006-10-12 08:01:16 UTC
Free will has been given to us to obey or disobey God. Our obedience would be to God, not man. We can't take free will away from the person, but we can limit options of actions. The person in their mind can still freely think their way is right even if it wrong, and we can't prevent that. And, even if a "wrong" action were made legal or illegal, abortion or gay marriage, we still owe obedience to God, not man. If we love God, we will obey his commands. God will judge us for what we do and what we do not do. Yes, doing nothing when we could, is a sin. We have our responsiblilty to prevent sin from being done, and if it comes to making a "wrong" action illegal, it prevents the sin being done by others. It helps others to not be judged as wrong in that sin by God.
gjstoryteller
2006-10-12 08:00:33 UTC
"Basically why should we be able to take that God given right away from a person?"



I believe you've just hit the nail on the head when it comes to the paradox of the Christian faith. On one hand, you are told to be a witness to your faith. This charges you to proselytize your religion so that others will know about the "good word."



This, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. Just like teaching someone about any subject of study, the individual has the free will and choice to either continue with you, or discard what you are saying.



The problem as I see it is when the action of witnessing your faith becomes a matter of law. Law is something that is applied to every member of a civil society regardless of religion. The moment you attempt to apply an aspect of religious teaching to law, you remove the right of free will.



Of course we must have laws so a civil society will continue to be "civil." But this should only apply to how we interact with each other, such as in the cases of theft or murder. That harms another person. It's direct and has obvious consequences. But gay marriage? Abortion? How does that have a direct effect on you personally? It doesn't. It simply upsets you because it goes against what you "personally" believe to be true.



So there's the problem in a nutshell. On one hand you are charged to preach the good word. But it is up to the individual to either accept it or reject it. Technically, that's as far as you have been asked to go. Doing more upsets civil society's apple cart and restricts free will. Consequently, I fully agree with you. Difficult though it may be for the Christian who wishes it otherwise.
2016-10-16 08:38:06 UTC
I trust you on homosexuality, i do not understand what the answer is not any matter if that's a sin or no longer, yet I do imagine that that's between God and this man or woman. My interest as a Christian is to love them and be form to them. The question of abortion is one which's amazingly diverse and that i will answer this as both a Christian and on soley an psychological aspect. As a Christian, i trust that all existence is sacred, that as we talk of theory a residing soul has come into the international to finish God's purpose (regardless of that would properly be). putting my Christian beliefs aside (I comprehend that no longer each and every man or woman is a Christian or stocks my beliefs), American regulation errs on the aspect of conservatism (i.e innocuous till shown in charge). the american clinical association has determined that at a particular aspect in fetal progression (i trust that's 16 weeks) it will be considered a existence. properly when we've determined that at a particular aspect it does develop right into a existence (they themselves use the word "round") what if that's 15 weeks or 14 weeks? That being stated I trust that professional-lifers elect to step up and take responsibility for his or her beliefs (when you're professional existence, do you volunteer to artwork with deprived babies, are you a foster determine? Do you supply to charities that help babies and unmarried moms? in case you personal an organization, do you grant day care?) because i'm a specialist-lifer, I position self belief in kinfolk making plans and condom use (if the egg and sperm by no skill meet, there s no theory)
Caritas
2006-10-12 08:01:14 UTC
We should not force others to do or not do anything because ultimately God will judge them is an argument that leads to anarchy. Given free will, should we all be allowed to do whatever we want? No. Anarchy leads to social unrest. Society needs laws to protect the vulnerable... really to protect us from one another. Generally, social rules mimic the moral values of a society.



Therefore, if the US truly believes "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" then laws must be set-up to safeguard these core values. This certainly pertains to abortion as it involves killing a living human being after his or her creation.
Giggly Giraffe
2006-10-12 07:55:36 UTC
Think of it this way. When you were a baby learning to walk, your parents had to hold you up, let you go and let you fall down. I bet some falls hurt and others you got used to. Well, the parents had to learn to let you go to fall so you could grow. In most cases, the parents were near by ... or left others to be near you while you practiced walking.



We're all one family ... all brothers & sisters. As siblings, we're not as omnipitent as the Lord ... but when we see you about to fall off a cliff ... well, we need to tell you. We need to treat you the way we want to be treated. If I were to fall off a cliff, I'd want to know. God left us as your brothers & sisters to help you walk and get to him. We would disgrace our Father should we watch you fall & laugh without helping. Even worse ... if your actions took down more ppl than you we should work to get you back to safty.



Abortion kills ... sure there's the "Forgive them for they know not what they do" ... but as someone who's witnessed the evil in abortion ... I feel the need to warn before they harm their souls & others. Most will ignore messages and go for their self wants ... but if I don't warn, then it's the same as me commiting the abortion. Same with same-sex marriage.



Sure, we're all FAR from perfect. This is why sometimes we sound "Self Righious" ... that's kinda like when the oldest (probably wiseist sibling) bosses everyone else in the family. If you've ever encountered a big brother ... he's usually right; annoying, but has his heart in a good place.
Crystal
2006-10-12 07:58:57 UTC
I have to agree with you. My parents are devoted Baptists and I attend a Pentacostal church. They are forever bashing me and the church, saying they are some sort of cult.......I don't see this. They teach from the Bible and I have learned so much from them. I say whats good for one person may not be whats best for another. What a person chooses to do and how they choose to live their lives is noone elses business. I have the happiness of knowing that I'll face nobody's record but my own when I die. And I feel that the way we judge others here on earth is the way God will judge us when we go before Him.
ali kit
2006-10-12 07:47:10 UTC
no one has the right to tell another person what they can or cant do, i think its completely wrong when people try to force things on other people or take things away, this is where people get christianity all mixed up, as christians we are not suppose to tell people what they can or cant do, yes we can tell people about our religion and our believes and lead them to god but only if they want, they have free will as well, and yes i believe we will all be judged equally in the end. as far as gay marriage and abortion goes, yes in the bible there are scriptures that talk about gay marriage being wrong, but where do we have the right telling them they are all wrong, you can protest if you want but its really a personal decision about wether you want to be against it, it all comes down to personal opinion and beliefs in the end
CuriousGirl
2006-10-12 07:51:40 UTC
Yes, God gave us free will ... but, at the same time we are not to force anything on anyone. We are to be witnesses to the world. We are to let people know what is sinful or not. However, we all have to stand before God and be judged. If one doesn't accept Jesus and salvation ... that's their right, there is nothing we can do for them except pray for their understanding and salvation.
Ralley
2006-10-12 07:49:26 UTC
Very well said. I wonder that same thing. And then I wonder how we, as Christians, are supposed to spread the message of Christianity as best we can without judging people for their actions? I don't understand how to do that! I don't judge people, I think that in itself is a sin, right? I believe everyone will have their time in front of God and they can answer for their sins then.
starchild1701
2006-10-12 07:52:26 UTC
first of all if u read the bible then u will also know that we are our brothers keeper and so therefore we have the right to make sure that we don't allow them to stumble in the dark by saying this many have taken this a step farther and have stumbled along the way too and in doing so we have lost our way thus the saying how can i get the stick out of my brothers eye when i am as blind as he is cause i cannot get the board out of my own in other words we should not judge others for we will be judged by our ownselves our actions as does not the movies show us this all the time when the bad guy gets it in the end ? hope this help[ed
Mr. Christian
2006-10-16 09:31:04 UTC
Read a Bible God said it was unatural. And what he says goes. He also said in his law it was a sin and they are wicked. Sure the put to death might not apply but sin is a sin.
luvwinz
2006-10-12 07:46:31 UTC
The instructions that Jesus gave were pretty simple: We're to share the good news of God's grace and Jesus' salvation for us. If the news is ignored or rejected, we're to brush the dust of their town off our feet and move on.



I don't see how we're supposed to push any of this other stuff on people. These things that are against God, are of the world. The world will do what the world will do. We're to live in the world, but we're to gaurd against becoming a part of it. Those that do become a part of it, that's their choice.
mcshankel04
2006-10-12 07:49:24 UTC
Free will....now there is a concept. basically a choice is what he has given you and guess what? its only one choice. Do right or do wrong? the only problem with this is that the bible has no one right or wrong interpretation....therefore its on you to decide what you feel is right or wrong. Good Luck figuring that one out.
2006-10-12 07:47:33 UTC
You DO believe in separation of church and state, as the Constitution provides. Many in the USA today do not, and are actively trying to change it.

It will be a sad day when it changes, and a religious dictatorship like the one's many ridicule in the Middle East will follow.

As you say, men should stop trying to be God.
dyke_in_heat
2006-10-12 07:47:22 UTC
Same sentiments here.



It is up to the individual to make that decision.

Right or wrong, good or bad each person will be judged on their life as they have lived it.



Sometimes I wonder why others do things but that is their choice.



As for me I hope I do the right things with consistency.
ccrider
2006-10-14 19:14:53 UTC
I'm not sure why you only include the ones that believe in free will with your question. There are those who believe that man in and of himself does not have the capacity to look to God for salvation, and your question applies to them as well.
2006-10-12 07:54:19 UTC
If you think about it, we really don't have free will according to christians. I'll give you an example.

God says that we are free to choose between A and B, but if you choose B you will burn in hell forever. Any notion of freedom is removed from the concept of free will. Is that really free will?
NickofTyme
2006-10-12 08:03:37 UTC
Everyone has free will and I can tell no one what they can and cannot do. What I can do is relay God's message of consequences. No amount of legislation will prevent homosexuality. Legalization is opposed because it is tantamount to acceptance of the practice and that won't happen within the family of God - legal or not.
Abdumalik A
2006-10-12 07:49:23 UTC
I am a muslim here and I have some Idea about it because in Islamic also talked about that point may be your can read it for one day any way the key is their was folowing saytan so they did and other hand they was in some deggery got from Allah give them of some judged its have many shdow of it .
cindy
2006-10-12 07:49:20 UTC
You are taking free will to a different definition that God gave it to us for.



Free will is the ability to accept or reject God.



What you are asking about is sin nature. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, they unwittingly allowed evil and sin to enter into the earth. Eve was deceived, she was convinced that by taking of the forbidden fruit that she was actually "helping" God. Adam was not deceived, he knew full well that he was disobeying and did it anyway.



Now it is our sin nature that gives us all these thoughts and justifications and silly expectations that we can think Gods thoughts and actions.



God created us in his image, and we have been "recreating" God in our own image ever since.(molding him and shaping him into what we want instead of the other way around)
Uncle Thesis
2006-10-12 09:15:36 UTC
Free will is one of the most mis-understood conceptions there can be.

It is always forgotten that there are consequences with free will.

Your buddy decides to lie down in the middle of the highway and let cars race by him at 100 mph.

Would you not try to talk him out of it?

He has the free will to do it, but if you cared at all, you would try to impede him from exercising that will because of CONSEQUENCES.

Sure, the end of it is, if he insists, its his life ....but you would try to counteract his exercising free will, wouldn't you?
Nitrin
2006-10-12 09:11:53 UTC
Though I am not a Christian myself, this question very much impressed me. If anything, it demonstrates that you have a much stronger faith in your God than so many others who claim to share that faith.



Why do I say this? Because essentially what I hear you saying is "let God be the judge of these people, not man." When individuals attempt to force others to live up to the principles of the Bible through man-made laws, fundamentally they are demonstrating a lack of faith in God. Not only did the God of the Bible explicitly command people NOT to do this, not to judge others but to leave that judgement to God, but those who try to force others to live by Gods will presume, perhaps unconsciously, that they are better judges of how to go about this than God is! They are placing themselves above God. You on the other hand sound like you are surrendering yourself to God, following his commandments, and not presuming to be above or wiser than God, and I imagine that if the Christian worldview does turn out to be correct, you will be in good shape come Judgement Day.



Incidentally, I might add, that although I am not a muslim either, that what you have expressed seems to be the true meaning of Jihad. This is what I learned from my professor of Islam at any rate, who was a muslim. Jihad is NOT meant to be the attempt to shove God's will down others' throats, that is blamsphemy. Jihad is merely meant to be the right to defend yourself from those who are trying to force you to live out of accordance with God's Will.



But legalizing gay marriage, abortion, and the rest do not force Christians to live out of accord with God's will (nor, incidentally, do they force Muslims to do so either). (Although it could be argued that abortion does as it is equal to murder in some people's eyes.) And laws that make these things illegal are useless as far as God is concerned, because God has explicitly said that sin is in the heart, not just in one's action. If one wants to have sex with another's wife, this is sin, regardless of whether they act on it. Laws that would prevent someone from doing so wouldn't prevent the fundamental sin. So laws that prevent one from sinning in action don't prevent one from sinning in their hearts, and if anything only get in the way of, as you say, the free will of the individual and presume to know God's Will.



Finally, if individuals argue that laws like gay marriage encourage people to sin who would otherwise not do so, they are tacitly admitting that social conditions influence the free will, in which case they run up against all kinds of theoretical problems concerning the doctrines of Christ's salvific status and the fairness of God, for what do we make of those born and raised in countries were Christ's name is never mentioned if we admit that social conditions effect the ability of the soul to be saved? Do we admit that God made it vastly easier for some souls to be saved than others because of social conditions? And if social conditions so easily influence the soul, how free is the free will to begin with?



Anyway, great question. Thank you.
daisy322_98
2006-10-12 07:49:05 UTC
Ha Ha i like the word Bloody hell like the other dude who wrote in said! I think i am going to add that to my vocabulary! People are such bungholes! Life is supposed to be about living, enjoying, and learning not telling everyone their going to hell because of what they do. Iam sure God has other things to worry about then Gays and God did create people to be gay. Bloody hell! I like that! cool deal!
2006-10-12 07:44:21 UTC
I've often said that your Jesus would have been BOTH pro-choice and anti-abortion.



he wouldn't like abortion, but he NEVER advocated the idea of taking away a person's ability to make their own decisions.









to the christiankid two answers down, what did she say that was contrary to the bible?

I don't see anything.

I think you're talking out of your *** because YOU simply don't like what she said, but you're unable to address her point.
xsamantha79
2006-10-12 07:52:21 UTC
We are not judging by maintaing the illegality of certain issues. It is simply a way of trying to preserve a standard of morality in our society.
2006-10-12 07:52:43 UTC
It is all about moralising.



Gaining the "Moral High Ground", and setting up camp there.



If it wasn't the stuff you mentioned, I can gaureentee you - they would have been moralising about something else.



If you moralise (about anything) enough and convince enough people you get power.
themindvortex
2006-10-12 07:53:09 UTC
Free Will just as religion were invented by humans and only serve humans. There's no such thing as free will because there's no un-free will. You either have will or not.
Gorgeoustxwoman2013
2006-10-12 07:46:14 UTC
You are an intelligent mature Christian. There are several Christians on here like you. I applaud your guts. You will be receiving hate mail now from your fellow Christians offering their brotherly love.
bandit
2006-10-12 07:52:36 UTC
well said! what a christian..keep it up..as a religious person of any faith you only have the right to inform, and not force anything..that's what i think anyway...
I speak Truth
2006-10-12 07:50:32 UTC
I dont believe you can forceothers not to do anything they will do what they want to do no matter what!!!! because they do have free will
2006-10-12 07:50:05 UTC
If God gave me free will I can use that free will to imprison you, beat your face, or off you. I can also use my free will to try and stop you from doing something.
?
2006-10-12 07:51:54 UTC
So basically you're saying Christians should shutup and forget the "great commission" Jesus proclaimed we should do? Mature? Christian?
cloud
2006-10-12 07:57:36 UTC
There should be more open-minded christians like you.
Just Askin'
2006-10-12 07:44:26 UTC
I don't believe its Gods will Its the will of man
2006-10-12 07:50:31 UTC
NO ONE SHOULD OR CAN TELL ANYBODY WHAT TO DO. REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN.



ALL THE BEST.
2006-10-12 07:46:19 UTC
we cant force anyone

Christians will want to follow the ten commands

He will Judge according to His laws...sin is trangression of that and they can still repent..
Sick Puppy
2006-10-12 08:17:06 UTC
Yes, we have freewill.
Da Great 1
2006-10-12 07:43:31 UTC
Because if you hadn't noticed homosexuality is a sin just because we tell the turth doesn't mean anything.
2006-10-12 07:48:43 UTC
umm accept Jesus or go to hell is NOT free will it is blackmail.
2006-10-12 07:45:04 UTC
Good point! There is no true free will!
2006-10-12 07:44:43 UTC
So you say something contrary to the Bible, and it's a Biblical quesiton, but you DON'T want us to use the Bible. Obviously you don't want a real answer, but just answers that please you.
?
2006-10-12 07:43:13 UTC
Well said....



or typed I guess...
2006-10-12 07:47:09 UTC
"Christian" Politics?





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Jesus say, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations...teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you..."? (Matt. 28:19-20)



He does not say, 'go, and be active in your nation's politics'.





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Summary



Many, if not most, christian religious leaders are saying that "the church" should spend it's time and resources doing things other than loving one another and making disciples of all nations. Their people are told we need to use political means to advance the Kingdom of God. Their people are told they are to fight against moral evil and to fight to preserve our 'rights'. Their people are told to keep their minds on the world's kingdoms (governments) and battles and to use the world's means (political power) to fight those battles.



This is another false gospel leading people away from God. Jesus says, "My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight...". (John 18:36) Many religious organization leaders say, "Jesus' kingdom is manifest in this world through political means, so get fighting."



Who do you believe, Jesus or the voices of those prominent religious leaders?





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Many christians today are very much involved in, or concerned about, this nation’s government and its legislation. Many christian leaders are teaching that from the federal to the local level, it is God’s will that "this nation" reflect His moral principles and that christians are to make this happen through political means. Many who take the label bible believing christians are claiming that it is God’s will that christians rule over the nation, and that christians should spend their time in political activity trying to combat the moral evils of our day. Organizations such as The Christian Coalition, Focus on the Family, The Heritage Foundation, Concerned Women of America, and Coral Ridge Ministries - while they pay lip service to a religious or spiritual "gospel" - have as their primary public focus, something to the effect of the reclaiming of America back to its alleged glory days of moral purity. Their voices are loud (and sadly, oftentimes harsh) about abortion and homosexuality and pornography and school choice, etc. Their message is that if christians would just become involved (and by this they mean win powerful positions in political offices) in the politic of the United States of America, then America could become a much better place. It seems that almost every prominent person calling themselves a bible believing christian is among the voices supporting this agenda of the "christianization" or "re-moralization" of the united states culture by means of political power.



Surely true disciples of Jesus do not like being in a sinful world, since we hate our own sin and its effects and consequences on others. Surely the sight of lost people engaging in every from of sinful activity is disheartening to us. Surely the unrighteousness of the world's leaders (both political and religious) can bring discouragement to our hearts. Surely the rank injustice which is meted out every day on every front, from the legislative to the judicial, is tragic and frustrating. At times we can be overwhelmed at the sight of young children being dragged into this evil, and willfully perpetrating much of it. As disciples we should be grieved at Satan’s terrible reign in this world. Ah, but there is the problem. In this last sentence, I switched from a moral stand point to a spiritual standpoint, and it is here that those in the christian organizations are being totally deceived. The key question is this: are disciples of Jesus to fight Satan or his agents; and, how are we to be fighting this battle - what are the weapons and what is the goal?



Please examine the following contrast between two types of people with very different essential beliefs.



God Fearing christian

Follower of Jesus





Tries to pass legislation to force moral law on people The disciple spreads Jesus' teachings, which frees people from the bondage of sin, and helps the new disciples to go and do the same (Matt. 28:18-20)

The moralist boycotts "evil" people or organizations The disciple shares the Words of Jesus with the lost (Acts 1:8)

The moralist fights for his right to pray at school The disciple does not place their children in schools to be taught by the world (John 15:19).

The moralist is angry at sinners and their sin The disciple is grieved at sin, especially his own (Matt. 7:1-5; Luke 18:14)

The moralist is usually angry The disciple usually has his Lord's peace and joy (John 14:27; 16:22)

The moralist normally preaches judgment with fear as the prime motivator The disciple normally preaches salvation from the cost of sin by the mercy of God with God's love as the primary motivator (John 3:16-18)



As you read through this article - if you are seeking the truth with all your heart - you will begin to understand the difference between the christian or God fearing moralist and the follower of Messiah Jesus more clearly [link to Are God Fearer's Disciples of Jesus?].



Morality Versus the Spiritual Kingdoms:



Sodom versus Capernaum - Which is Worse?



As one studies the scripture and does a little research from an archeological standpoint, one will find out some interesting things regarding a small town in Israel named Capernaum. Geographically, it was a relatively small town nestled on the north shore of the Sea of Galilee. It was a normal small town of its day with fishing as its primary industry. It contained normal people going about their typical lives. There was a significant synagogue there and as any typical small Jewish town, it was the center of social activity. What makes Capernaum noteworthy, however, is that Jesus of Nazareth spent a good bit of time ministering there. The gospel accounts record many instances when Jesus performed miracles there.



The main point relative to this discussion, however, is that Capernaum was a normal, relatively quiet small village. There is absolutely no historical record in either the scripture or otherwise, that would describe the village as being overtly given over to sin. In fact, I am sure that if you could go back in time and visit Capernaum, it would be much like I am told it is like today - regular people living out regular lives. To use the language of the contemporary God Fearers, it was a very nice, moral place to live where God was feared, the law was obeyed and therefore it was a quiet and physically peaceful place. I am equally certain that many towns and cities in our contemporary United States would make Capernaum look like a moral utopia in comparison.



Given all these facts, please listen to Jesus’ own words regarding Capernaum, "And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you." (Matt. 11:23-24)



Now if you have some understanding of the Old Testament, I don’t have to go into detail about the city of Sodom and its demise. Sodom was given over to every type of perverted sin, much like many of the major urban areas of our day. The gross immorality of Sodom is recorded for all history in the bible (Gen. 18:20-21; 19:4-5, 24). Yet, Jesus pronounces a worse judgment on quiet, moral Capernaum than on the overtly wicked Sodom. If you understand the reason for this, you will understand the key truth of this article. And that key truth has everything to do with the question of should disciples be involved with the world’s political systems.



The reason Jesus placed the greater condemnation on Capernaum is because Jesus is not primarily concerned with morality, but rather with a person's heart. In fact, Jesus is not primarily concerned about a person's moral goodness because He knows that all mankind is evil (John 2:24-25; Matt. 7:11, 13-14; 19:17). What Jesus is primarily concerned with is who or what a person is trusting in as their God and who or what is their first love. Jesus is concerned about what kingdom you are in. AFTER an individual comes into His kingdom by being born again, then that individual reflects Jesus' righteousness (John 3:3-5; 15:5). A person's morality is secondary and is merely one potential evidence of which kingdom a person is a citizen of. The true evidence of what kingdom you are in is BOTH the words of your mouth (speaking Jesus' Words and teahcings), AND your obeying JESUS' commands (not other bible writers, but JESUS ONLY). Living one or the other alone means you are not his disciple. You can be the most moral, religious person on the planet, but if you don't openly speak the Real Jesus' Words and teachings, then you are merely a lost christian...a God fearing moralist [link to Are God Fearers Disciples of Jesus?]. On the other hand, you can talk a lot about "Christ", you can preach some of his more popular teachings in his name, you can even teach some of his words (the ones which don't contradict your christian religion), BUT if you don't obey His commands, then you are lost, without hope (Matt. 7:21; John 14:15). This is why the gate is narrow (Matt. 7:13-14).



You see friend, a person can be a very moral and religious person, and at the same time be lost and against Messiah. Surely the true disciple understands this. Look to the religious people of Jesus’ day. They were very law abiding people when viewed from the outside. They obeyed the law and were very active in charitable acts of giving. Yet Jesus excoriated them and instead spent time with the "sinners" (harlots and tax collectors) who saw a need for their salvation.



This critical truth is the hardest to convey to people since people are naturally so works or morality oriented. This is why the gospel of God's mercy is so rejected and misunderstood. We can't but help look at the moral, religious person and say, "oh my, what a good person, surely he is a christian or knows God and is destined for heaven". In contrast, we can't help but look at the person struggling with sin and say, "oh my, that poor sinner, I hope he repents before it's too late…". Yet Jesus looks at both person's hearts and he might very well see the moral, religious person as hopelessly lost (Matt. 23:33), and the person struggling with sin as his own! (Matt. 5:20; Luke 18:9-14). We are hopelessly creatures of judgment based on the works that we see - this is part of the core of our sinful nature.



The hard truth is that the wicked, immoral acts of those in Sodom were less sinful that the unbelief of those "good" moral people in Capernaum. Sadly, that is what we are talking about here - degrees of judgment. The grossly immoral people of Sodom will receive less of a punishment than the moral, upstanding, yet Messiah ignoring people of Capernaum. What does this clearly teach? That unbelief is worse than any other sin, since it is the one sin which damns people to hell. Therefore, should disciples spend their time fighting immoral people by trying to pass laws that force them to be moral, or should we spend our time and resources on preaching the gospel and making disciples of all nations? (Matt. 28:19-20) The answer is obvious to those who have ears to hear, and hearts seeking the truth.



Politics the Way?



A few critical questions need to be asked at this juncture to support the truth that disciples are not to fight moral evil but are to instead preach the gospel and make disciples.



First, why didn’t Jesus, when He was at Capernaum, seek to run for major or synagogue ruler, in order to make the people stop sinning? For that matter, why did Jesus come to earth the first time as a meek servant, rather than ruling monarch? Are we to be like Jesus as he is reveals himself in the gospels, or not? (Matt. 16:24)

Where in the New Testament can one find even one didactic teaching, or even an implication, that disciples are to try to force God's law on unbelievers through the world's government's legislation?

Why would a disciple want to force the law on a person - knowing that obeying law does not save, nor sanctify a person - except to make their own lives more comfortable in this world?

Where is one example of disciples engaging in political action or protest in the New Testament?

Jesus makes it quite clear that His kingdom "is not of this world" (John 18:36). Which kingdom are you fighting for? How then can the world's governments represent his kingdom?

Why does Jesus give as his disciple's "mission statement" the task of "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations...teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you…"? Why does he not say, "Go, and enforce God's law on society to make it conform to the moral law"? Are all those religious organizations who spend a significant percent of their time and resources trying to enforce God's law on society obeying Jesus' command of "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations..."?

Jesus answers these questions by teaching that his disciples are not to try to change the world through the world's political means.



The Way of American Politics



To win in the game of American politics, you must have voters. In general, the more support you have, the more likely you are to prevail in imposing your political agenda, including getting voted into an office or passing "morally correct" legislation. Can you see how this sets one up for compromise? This puts one in the position of saying, "well, as long as we agree that this moral evil is wrong, and we both believe in God, then we are united – let’s join together to fight this moral evil." In its broadest sense, this type of ecumenism would go beyond that which calls itself "christianity", to Judaism and Islam and Hinduism, etc. "After all", the ecumenists say, "we all serve the same God, we just use different names". Perhaps, but perhaps Jesus is right when he says, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life; and no man comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6). If you are a faithful servant of Messiah Jesus and you are thereby regularly communicating this truth, above all other truths in your life, then you will not win a political office. Is this surprising? In fact, if you are a faithful servant of Messiah Jesus, then you will not want to be a part of the world's political organizations - whether it be President of the U.S. or 'serving' on some committee at your government controlled school - for Jesus says his Kingdom is not of this world and that his followers are to hate their lives in this world (John 12:25).



It is amazing to me that many labeling themselves under some "christian" label seem to believe that it would be possible for a follower of Jesus to be elected to a high office in government, even President of the United States. A person who believes this, is massively confused between the two kingdoms. Satan rules this world (John 14:30) and its political leaders (John 12:31). Jesus rules heaven and those on this earth who are His, through His called out ones (John18:36; Matt. 16:18). Those faithful men or women of God who still believe the true gospel which offends (John 15:19), would never entertain the thought of serving in the kingdom of darkness, nor would anyone vote for them if they spoke Jesus' Words consistently and unashamedly.



The person serving in Messiah Jesus' Kingdom "acknowledges the Lord in all their ways" (Matt. 10:32-33). This means what it says - you will talk about your King Jesus when you speak. There is no qualification on "when you speak", for that is what Jesus wants as we willingly serve Him. If a person chooses to run for some political office, then that is a choice of their free will, and something that they do not have to do with their time, like work to provide means to live. Thus, it is service to someone - service to some social cause or in reality, some kingdom. I say again, when a true disciple is freely choosing to serve someone, the Lord Jesus wants it to be Him and Him alone. And if the true disciple is serving the Lord, then they will speak for HIM by speaking HIS Words and HIS desires. And what are His desires for His people? To repeat Jesus' Words, to make disciples of all nations, and manifest God's Family as the answer to men's problems - nothing more, nothing less.



What do you speak about at the school board meeting, or whatever other political committee you serve on? When Jesus says, "Confess Me before men" He means whenever you speak, or all the time. I mean, if Jesus has saved you from hell and really is your Lord and Master, you can't help but speak about your first love and the precious salvation He has given you and offers to this perishing world, right? "Oh", some might say, "that's too extreme", or, "that is too narrow a focus". We'll, if you want extreme or narrow, how about the greatest commandment, "To love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength" (Mark 12:30). Yes the sinful human heart may cringe at giving that kind of love and thereby submission to anybody but one's self, yet the command stands forever. Where do you stand? Have you given your heart completely to Messiah Jesus or are you just a christian, which is some one who knows some things about "christ"?



Another really lame excuse justifying a "christian politician's" ignoring Jesus with 99.9% of all their words, is given as, 'oh, well, it is not their job to preach Jesus when they are speaking during their job...'. Well, there you have it - a plain confession of who their master is - and please note it is NOT Messiah Jesus. On the one hand, they say that as politicians, they are leaders of some group of people - the people who voted them into office. Yet when they are speaking about their ideas about how to lead the people, Messiah Jesus and his words are notably absent. Why? Doesn't Jesus possess all the wisdom needed for people to live a life pleasing to God? Yes, Jesus does, but the politician obviously doesn't believe that Jesus has any appropriate wisdom for the issues they try to govern. Besides, the politician would not be able to hold their position of power if they spoke Jesus' words to the people. So they say, 'well, I'm not a preacher', and go the way of christianity where only the "professional paid clergy" are to follow Jesus and allegedly speak His words. These christians only talk about their alleged Lord when it won't offend anyone. What a horrible ruse and deception. To these people, Jesus' words of, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations...teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you...", do not apply to them in "their jobs". Those words are only for the "professional paid clergy", or for their few hours on Sundays while they neatly compartmentalize their lives into the "religious" (few hours a week in religious buildings and settings) and real life (while they are doing what is really important on their political jobs, including ignoring Jesus and exalting themselves).



In the world system, you must be popular to win political office. People following the Real Jesus and faithfully repeating Jesus' Words shall never be popular in this world, nor will they ever garner the world’s support regarding spiritual truth (John 15:19). However, there are many christians who are fighting for moral causes and gathering significant numbers of people behind them – other people who don’t like the immoral people and the effects that immorality has on their lifestyles or pocket books. The Christian Coalition, Focus on the Family, Alliance Defense Fund, Concerned Women of America, Coral Ridge Ministries et al are fighting the moral war, but in so doing, they have utterly abandoned fighting the battle the Lord wants us to fight, which battle is spiritual and whose purpose is point people to Jesus. We are not called to fight against immoral people or for our "rights" for a more comfortable environment while here in the world (John 12:25).



What About Voting?



Clearly, as we have seen, a disciple of Messiah Jesus would not want to run for a political office since that would be serving some other master other than Messiah Jesus. Therefore, anyone who claims to be a disciple and yet who runs for a political office, is at best badly confused, or at worst, a deceived counterfeit. So what about the disciple who lives in a democracy and has the privilege of voting for some political candidate? Should disciples vote for political candidates?



Jesus plainly states the disciples relationship to the world's governments in two places: John 18:36, which says "Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."; and "And He said to them, "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." (Matthew 22:21) Therefore, we are to obey "Caesar" unless his laws cause us to break the commands of the Lord (Acts 4:19-20). A "law", by definition, is a prescribed "do" or "do not". For example, we are to pay taxes (do), and we are not to steal (do not).



Voting, in contrast, is a privilege and not a law or a positive prescription. Thus, the true disciple should look elsewhere in Jesus' teachings for guidance on the issue of voting. Jesus plainly teaches that the disciple should not participate in the world's unrighteousness - John 15:19, 18:36. To vote for an unbeliever is to SUPPORT unrighteousness, which the disciple of Jesus should not do. When a person is voting, they are saying, "I will support this person and his or her actions". Can you imagine Jesus voting for a better Caesar? Can you imagine Jesus telling His disciples to cast a vote of support for the world's leaders? Can you find Jesus teaching the principle of "choose the lesser of two evils"? If you can, then you are believing in a different jesus other than the One who is revealed by his own Words in the gospels.



To support the lesser of two or more evils is not a principle taught by Jesus. If the disciple is forced or coerced into making a choice between two bad ethical choices, then the Lord will guide in those situations. However, voting is NOT coercive, and thus the lesser of two evils argument does not apply. The moralist or god fearer would also argue that if the disciple does not vote, then "evil will reign". Here again the confusion of these people is evident. EVIL ALREADY REIGNS! (John 14:30; 1 John 5:19). What the god fearer means is that overt acts of sin will increase. This may or may not be true, but the issue for the god fearer is that they will be less and less comfortable in this world. Neither of these arguments has any logical bearing on the fact that Jesus tells us not to server two Masters. The Lord does not ask us to practice what-if scenarios - rather and in contrast, He simply asks us to obey. The "evil will reign" argument is one that is built upon the rejection of Jesus teachings that God wants His people to impact this world through His Kingdom and Family alone.



To vote for an unbeliever, no matter how moral, is to cast your approval for a son of Belial. Once again, can you imagine Jesus casting his approval/voting for a world's political leader? Messiah Jesus is our King, and we submit to, and "cast our vote" for, Him and His agenda only.



As a lesser point, the disciple will not be apprised of what is happening in the world's politics, since the disciple is separate and apart from the world, and is not absorbing the world's unbelief through its mass media [link to What is in the World Box?]. The Lord has His people laboring where he has them - helping those people around them. Jesus' disciples are not to be partaking in today's Satanic mass media delusion via its "news" and "entertainment". [link to What is in the World Box?]



The Heart of Ecumenism



Sadly, the false beliefs that ensnare those folks wanting to get involved with christian political activities, are the same beliefs that are at the heart of the ecumenical movement. If your pre-eminent concern is with making the world (or society or culture or other subset of the world) a better, more moral place for your children to live, then you will embrace the ecumenical movement. Why? Because the unifying theme and foundational belief of the ecumenical movement is to be making sure God’s law is obeyed in this world. In other words, that our purpose in "serving God" is to help people obey His law – the ten commandments and so forth – through whatever legal means available. If this is your primary and motivating belief for how you are to live out your faith, then anything that gets in the way of that prime directive will have to be destroyed or made subservient. And what is the one thing that hinders the ecumenical movement? It is nothing less than Truth...that of course is Jesus himself! Thus, the ecumenical movement says, "fighting moral evil is more important than our differences about the beliefs which separate us" (as theists or whatever).



"We Have Our Rights, and We Want them Now"



A related belief that ties into the whole moralistic, god fearing, ecumenical agenda is the concept of "rights". There are many in the christian organizations calling us to fight for our rights. They are exhorting us to speak out against some political evil lest we lose our rights. What rights? The right to pray in school, or the right to protest abortion, or the right to exercise my religious practices or the right not to pay taxes to the government or to choose what the government does with my tax money. Where in the scripture do those, who go along with the whole "rights" philosophy, justify their belief? They will need to turn to the Old Testament and take things out of context. Let me suggest a few places in the New Testament they avoid.



Jesus' teaches that the disciple is not "free" in the sense that he can do whatever he wills. Rather, he is "free" by obeying His Master, Jesus (John 8:31-32, 36). The only way a person can become a disciple is by allowing himself to be redeemed by the Redeemer, Messiah Jesus. The price paid is nothing less than Messiah giving his Life for you - the greatest price ever paid for a slave. Thus you, your body and spirit "are God's". You are to be a willing slave of Messiah Jesus. And the truth is a servant has no rights! However, as servants of Messiah Jesus, the disciple has the greatest privilege of all - to serve the true and the living God and His Son!



A disciple has no rights, only obligations owed to, and blessings and privileges graciously granted by, their Master. Jesus showed us the Way by giving His life - what a great debt is owed by the disciple, a debt he can never repay. Jesus teaches this very point in Luke 17:7-10. Jesus says, "And which of you, having a servant plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, 'Come at once and sit down to eat'? But will he not rather say to him, 'Prepare something for my supper, and gird yourself and serve me till I have eaten and drunk, and afterward you will eat and drink'? Does he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not. So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, 'We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do'". So what "right" does the disciple have? Jesus says humble ourselves and confess that, "We are unprofitable servants". The unprofitable servant has no rights, only blessings and privileges graciously granted by the Master. Which king and kingdom are you looking to for your "rights" disciple? Are you looking to Caesar or Messiah Jesus?



I'm afraid the real issue is that people don't want to suffer persecution for Messiah's, or even righteousness, sake. The whole "rights" belief has as it basis, a selfish desire to have one's way, and to avoid discomfort in a world hostile to Messiah Jesus. A child might cry, "If I pray in school, they'll make fun of me or worse, tell me to stop". The God fearing parent then replies, "Oh, we must stop the world from persecuting you my child, I'll call the christian Coalition. I'm sure Pat Robertson or his attorneys will be able to force the school to let you pray or read your bible". All this well intentioned people are operating on the principle of loving their life in this world, the very opposite of what Jesus says his followers are to do. And of course, Jesus teaches his followers to pray in a manner that is not public so no one knows they are praying! If the christian parents were teaching their children Jesus' Way (which sadly they are not), no problem would arise about their children talking to Jesus.



The entire "rights" philosophy is based on the United States Constitution and its Bill of Rights, both of which contradict Jesus' teachings. As has been shown, the disciple is never to seek his "rights" since His Master owns him and is in control of his situation. Why look to the world to protect you, disciple? Are you going to look to wicked man and his perverse laws to protect you? Shame on you! Rather, trust in the Lord and do right! Some trust in chariots (political/legal system) and some trust in horses (elected officials and lawyers or legislators), but the disciple is to trust in the Lord our God! (Psalm 20:7)



I hope the reader can see the distinction. The first God fearing parent wants something they consider essential - their child to have a high school diploma, and they'll use whatever worldly legal means to get their will done [link to Education-olotry]. The believing parent, however, knows that a high school diploma is not a greater priority than loving and obeying Jesus [link to Education-olotry]. An immature disciple would hopefully see this circumstance as the Lord speaking to him about not having his child in public school.



Tragically, in fighting for their rights the God fearing moralists, in the name of "christianity", are no different from the homosexuals fighting for their rights. The only difference is that the moralists are sometimes fighting for rights that happen to mirror Biblical principles, whereas the homosexuals are oftentimes fighting for rights that are against Biblical principles. Both groups are as a little child, jumping up and down in a temper tantrum, screaming, "I want…I want…I want", and both are looking to the world to solve their problems. How sad indeed. What the Lord wants is for His people to trust in the Giver of the law so that He can change their hearts by His Spirit.



Some might ask, but what about Paul in Acts 25:11, where he appeals to Caesar in order to avoid being handed over to the Jews who would most certainly have killed him. Some point to that verse and say, "see, Paul had rights as a Roman citizen and he exercised those rights". However, to view the verse in this way is to view it from the world's standpoint, and not the Kingdom of God's. Was Paul's decision the Lord's will, or Paul's? The scripture records many examples of men of faith sinning by not trusting in the Lord (Gen. 12:13; 27:18; Luke 22:60). The scripture records that Paul would have been released from custody (Acts 26:32). In this author's opinion, Paul sinned here by not trusting in the Lord to deliver him from Festus' hand.



In contemporary times, a disciple who happens to be a citizen of the United States, could certainly use the privilege of his citizenship to protect his life against the wicked or to preach the gospel, but is not required by the Lord to do so. A disciple is called to be shrewd, and using the privileges granted him by the Lord to advance the gospel or to righteously avoid injustice that he might deem as hindering his effort to preach the gospel, might well be in God's will.



However, to use privileges to fight for "my rights" and the things of the world is never allowed for by Jesus. There is no teaching of Jesus nor example in the New Testament, to support a selfish fighting for "my rights".



What About Fighting To Stop Abortion?



The killing of young children is certainly a great sin, and it is certainly is an affront to an all Holy and Righteous God. Of this there is no question. To think that mothers would kill their own babies so as not to have to live with the responsibilities brought about by their own behavior, is a tragic circumstance indeed. Jesus did say, "And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved" (Matt. 24:12-13).



However, some important distinctions must be made before we consider this issue. First, abortion is a sin like any other sin, not above every other sin. It is a sin perpetrated by a mother against her own child. Certainly the second greatest privilege the Lord grants to anyone is existence! The greatest privilege is redemption and an eternity with Him, but that cannot take place unless He first creates a person. Please note, life is not a right, it is a privilege, just like anything else the Lord grants to a person. I do not have a 'right to life', just like I don't have a right to exist or a right to heaven. If I want to start to talk about "my rights", then we are in the realm of justice, and the greatest truth I must face is that my sin demands punishment, and my former unbelief demands an eternity in hell. It is only by God's mercy that I receive anything good in this life.



God was not required to create me, for I am not a necessary being. The Lord also is not required to continue to provide me with physical life. The same can be said of any person, including the infant in his mother's womb. The Lord was under no obligation to create the child, and He is under no obligation to continue to sustain the child's physical existence. Yes, God's nature is such that He seeks to protect the weak and helpless, yet the Lord does allow evil to continue on this earth for His purposes, and we would be foolish to question His sovereignty due to the existence of evil. He allowed the holocaust against the Jews by Hitler, and He allows the slaughter against the unborn. And yes, he does want us to do something about it - pray, help those wanting help, preach the gospel, and to make disciples of those who would kill their own baby or the men who enable and encourage it.



Perhaps the greatest truth that is scorned by those folks caught up in fighting against abortion, is the fact that each infant that is killed in their mother's womb immediately goes to heaven to be with the Father. This does not excuse the evil of the act of murdering infants, but it is a truth none-the-less. The problem, as with most issues, is the materialistic and temporal view of life instead of the spiritual and eternal. The anti-abortion protesters often make an analogy between the Nazi holocaust and the abortion holocaust, but there is a major distinction. Probably many of the six million plus killed in the Nazi holocaust went to hell because they were adults who rejected Messiah Jesus (John 14:6). All of the thirty five million plus babies killed in the abortion holocaust will spend an eternity in heaven with the LORD. This is an awesome truth that needs to be pondered, especially by the zealous anti-abortion protester. Having said all this, where is the disciple to stand in regards to "fighting against abortion"?



Three Key Principles for the Abortion Issue



First, a disciple is not to seek legislative means to force mothers to stop killing their babies. To do this is for a disciple of Jesus to use the world's means to attempt to enforce the kingdom of God, both of which are wrong - we are not to use the world means, and we are not to force the kingdom of God on anyone.



Second, if the Lord puts on someone's heart to share the gospel where pregnant mothers seek abortions, this would not necessarily be out of God's will. One important qualification to the sharing or preaching of the gospel, is that it is assumed the preaching will be done with compassion for the deluded and deceived mothers who are blinded by Satan in seeking to kill their babies. I have heard harshly condemning language under the guise of "preaching the gospel" in front of abortion clinics. A person standing in front of an abortion clinic yelling, "mommy, mommy, why did you kill me" is not preaching the gospel, and it is not coming from the Lord. Yes, call sin sin, but make sure and give the solution - God's wonderful mercy and love which is available to those mothers who turn to Him.



Third, "fighting against abortion" should not be the focus of any ekklesia community. An individual can sense God's leading to preach the gospel in front of abortion clinics, and the ekklesia should support those individuals. However, "fighting abortion" is not to be a "ministry" of any given believing community, nor should it be any individual's "ministry". Instead, preaching the gospel and making disciples of all nations is to be the entire and singular focus of all true disciples. The ekklesia should encourage one another to preach the gospel, whether in front of abortion clinics or in known drug dealing areas, or in areas of prostitution, or in front of psychology clinics or in front of malls or at train stations, etc.



Beware of Self-Righteousness



Unfortunately, it seems many times that those called to truly minister to pregnant women considering abortion (by trying to lead them to repentance and a relationship with Jesus), develop an attitude of "aren't' you also going to be an abortion activist?". It is a self-righteous attitude that implies that they are doing something really important whereas those who minister in different ways are ignoring the "really important issue". They will typically evoke some emotionally charged language, and might say something like, "Aren't you concerned about innocent babies being led to the slaughter". Of course the implication is that if you don't protest abortion clinics, then you don't care about babies being slaughtered. If someone has this attitude, then they are guilty of several sins:



First and foremost, they are not trusting the Lord on this issue. Isn't the Lord aware of abortions taking place, and if so, why is He not doing anything about it? Remember, abortion is another sin in this sin ridden world, so why does the Lord allow any sin to exist? He has His reasons, AND He has given the true disciple the means to deal with sin. Don't forget the main issue, that the solution to SIN is submission to JESUS, not political protests of any form.

Second, they are being puffed up in pride, thinking God is only speaking to them in terms of a calling for ministry.

Third, they are focusing primarily on the temporal rather than the eternal.

Here are a few questions that you could ask a person who implies that you don't care about babies being slaughtered. First you could ask, "Isn't the Lord in sovereign control, or do you believe He has forsaken those babies?" Next you could ask, "where do those babies go who are murdered"? The answer is obviously to heaven. Again, this usually will get the person with the self-righteous attitude angry, because it cuts to the heart of the issue - that he or she has their eyes not on the spiritual or eternal things, but rather on the moral or temporal. Finally, you could ask, "Are pregnant mother's seeking an abortion the only people who might be heading for hell", or "does God only want us reaching out to pregnant mothers, or is He concerned with other people as well?" After all, there is only so much time in a day. The zealous abortion protester oftentimes put themselves in the position of suggesting that disciples should be doing nothing else except "trying to rescue those babies". Well, I guess Jesus was deceived about the importance of abortion protest, because He told His ekklesia to preach the gospel and make disciples of all nations (Matt. 28:19-20). Where is a single political or moral 'protest' in the New Testament? There were nations around Israel at the time of Jesus' first visit that practiced infanticide in some form or another. Why didn't Jesus go there and stop that evil? He certainly could have, or at least He could have told His disciples to do that. If the pregnant woman doesn't repent, then you're not making disciples, only preaching at lost people who don't want to hear. Trust the unborn into the Lord's hands, and just obey the Lord.



Hopefully these questions, if asked in concerned compassion, will help the person to see that they are zealous, but without knowledge and perhaps in self-righteousness. If the Lord calls them to minister the gospel outside an abortion clinic, then praise the Lord. But if He calls another person to minister the gospel at the homeless shelter or outside the local psychologist's clinic [link to Can 'christian' Psychology Help Me] and not at the abortion clinic, then praise the Lord as well!



A Word About the New Testament and the Old Testament



Much of what identifies itself and the "christian right", or the moral majority, et al, if they use the scripture to justify their activities, use the Old Testament almost exclusively. Why do they so infrequently use Jesus' Words to try to justify their political activities and their mission to make the U.S.A. a more moral country? They don't because Jesus contradicts their agenda.



Many have done a good job at exposing the poor interpretations of the God Fearers as they try to justify their moral and political activity, and I will not go into an in depth analysis here [link to How to Know God by Reading the scripture]. The main error of the God Fearers is their seeing the Old Testament principles as applying to any nation, and not just Israel. In particular, they see the United States as kind of the new Israel. However, the United States, nor any other nation, is Israel! This should be obvious, but it is not to the many moralists seeking some transcendent justification for their attempts to force the moral law on unbelievers. Almost every time I see a political activist claiming to be a disciple use the scripture to try and justify their actions, it is always the Old Testament improperly interpreted, or an Old Testament principle inappropriately applied.



The ekklesia is not Israel (John 10:16). The United States is not Israel (Matt. 15:24; Gen. 15:18; Deut. 1:8). The United States is not filled with disciples of Messiah Jesus (Read Jesus' Words...and this web site!). It seems these basic truths elude many moralists who attempt to use the scripture to justify their agenda. The ekklesia is not to use coercive means to accomplish it's goal, which is to win souls to Messiah Jesus, and to disciple those souls. Of course, the problem with the moralist agenda is that it does not serve the purpose of the true ekklesia.



The God fearing moralists use the world's political means to accomplish their agenda. Protest marches, voting drives, mailing campaigns, usually with a little prayer thrown in. Possibly one of the most foolish methods of their warfare is the call to boycott companies or organizations who "support planned parenthood", or some other "evil" organization. Surely the boycott strategy proves that the God Fearers do not see spiritual truth, but see only in the realm of the flesh.



You see, the moralist sees a company supporting Planned Parenthood as "evil", but a company that supports the local zoo as "good". There is no discernment of the spiritual, only of the flesh. Jesus says no one is "good" (Matt. 19:17). Is planned parenthood more evil than the zoo? Not necessarily, for what if the zoo's main purpose is to indoctrinate school children into unbelief against Jesus? [link to What About Evolution?] Remember the beginning of this article where Jesus pronounced a greater condemnation on Capernaum than on Sodom? In fact, most of the leadership of both organizations are probably lost, and therefore both organization's beliefs are contradictory to Jesus' teachings. People in both organizations need to hear Jesus' Words. If you want to do something, do something the Lord would want you to do like preach outside of the buildings or hand out Jesus' Words and engage in witnessing conversations as people go in and out of the facilities.



Conclusion



I will close with the contrast between the God fearing moralist and the true disciple in Messiah Jesus that I placed at the beginning of this article. At this point, it should be clearer to the reader the reasons why the contrast exists.



God Fearing christian

Follower of Jesus





Tries to pass legislation to force moral law on people The disciple spreads Jesus' teachings, which frees people from the bondage of sin, and helps the new disciples to go and do the same (Matt. 28:18-20)

The moralist boycotts "evil" people or organizations The disciple shares the Words of Jesus with the lost (Acts 1:8)

The moralist fights for his right to pray at school The disciple does not place their children in schools to be taught by the world (John 15:19).

The moralist is angry at sinners and their sin The disciple is grieved at sin, especially his own (Matt. 7:1-5; Luke 18:14)

The moralist is usually angry The disciple usually has his Lord's peace and joy (John 14:27; 16:22)

The moralist normally preaches judgment with fear as the prime motivator The disciple normally preaches salvation from the cost of sin by the mercy of God with God's love as the primary motivator (John 3:16-18)



God Fearers do a few of the things true disciples do, and confused disciples do a few of the things God Fearers do, as listed above. But the fruit that will be present from true faith is an all consuming love for Messiah Jesus and a desire to follow him. And he teaches that to follow him means to love all those around you, speak his Words to all those around you, and so love other disciples that the world will look at them and say, 'wow, what love...'


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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