Moral relativists: Is pedophilia really wrong, regardless of what society thinks?

Question

Or is pedophilia merely wrong because our society deems it to be, and other societies may have other views?

Answer 1

The latter, and other societies do have other views.



And it's not "merely" wrong for that reason, that IS the reason.



"My point is that it's impossible, completely impossible, to live as a consistent moral relativist"



The alternative would be to never change your mind, so we'd still kill homosexuals, people who tried to marry more than once, and burn to the ground any city which had even one non believer in it.



You're really not convincing anyone of either how it is, nor how it should be.



And you think the age of consent should be?

Others have different opinions.

Because no one else is going to decide it for us, so we have to.



"The alternative is that some aspects of morality are absolute"



Very well, name one.



Nope.



They're BOTH wrong because societies tend to consider them wrong.



Note how societies that don't think they're wrong, do them?

Perhaps you've heard of nazi germany?



Have another go.



Lets see how far we need to go before you realise you're wrong.



Many Germans believed hitler was right to try and exterminate the "Christ killers" as he called them, from the planet. So their society killed millions of them.



Other societies, like the US and the UK, were of the opinion that it was wrong to do that, so they intervened. If they hadn't been against what Germany was doing, they wouldn't have stopped them.



All pretty basic stuff.



The bulk of nazi germany didn't think it was immoral to kill or punish Jews.



The only thing that stopped them were other societies who thought it was immoral.



This will sink in at some point.



"You have indeed conceded that relative to Nazi society, killing Jews was moral"



No, I said the nazis were of the opinion that it was moral.



You've lost the argument, so here comes the bullshlt.



Surprise, surprise....

Answer 2

Your labored point is a straw argument. There is not just two explanations of morality as you propose, i.e. objective and subjective. Morality is socially based. It is only in the 20th and 21st C in western society that what you refer to as pedophilia is considered wrong. In most cultures including that of the UK and the USA marriage was considered OK below that of 16. Indeed, in one US state until quite recently, a girl could marry at the age of 12. Funny thing was, she could not, as a single woman / girl enter a bar until she was 21, however, as a married woman (even at the age of 12) she could.



In these societies, it was considered normal and fine. Indeed, Henry VII, the first Tudor king, his mother was married very young and had him when she was 13 years old. This was considered fine at the time.



Despite your attempts at trying to prove that morality is absolute, you fail.



You see, the feeling of disgust at such things does not make a moral rule absolute, it is just how you have been bought up.



The reason why we find some actions and behaviour repulsive now, where in the past others did not is because of the development in the understanding of the effects of the behaviour on the person.

Answer 3

Labelling by that term has become an obsession that fails

to gauge the many differences in individual circumstances,

the difference between habitual and a stupid one-off episode,

between acts initiated by the adult or a precocious child etc.



Stereotypes are normally frowned upon except in the case

of "pedophilia" which has become a favourite charge of the

victim industry and hysterical vigilantism that all too often,

in today's climate, ends up hurting some innocent people

who had nothing to do with the original matter.



In some western cultures there's little allowance for a child's

normal peer play and experimentation to figure out sexuality

without alarmist accusations and finger-pointing ... yet most

average people will still recall there own learning path among

their trusted friends. For some, the hangups they're given by

overzealous "protectors" are really just a bit over the top.

Answer 4

Morning David,



You raise an interesting point, that I'll comment on shortly.



But first I'm curious as to your position? So your saying that because you think some morals are absolute that there must be a dictator (God) of those absolutes? If you are I'm interested to see which God you believe in?



As for your question. Here's how I see it...



Paedophilia is wrong and has always been wrong regardless of how widely it may have been practised. We as a species and society just didn't know any better. Morality has progressed or evolved with society. So I agree with you in a way, that whats right is right and whats wrong is wrong and has always been right or wrong. But our understanding of right and wrong has developed, deepened and broadened. There are things that were widely practised by our ancestors that we view today as barbaric. Those acts, have always been wrong but we just didn't know it at the time.



Morality, like all progress is forward moving, we are becoming and will continue to become more moral. Which is in my opinion a strong argument against there being a God of any sort that dictates moral laws because all the morals in all religious texts have been outdated by our progressive and evolving secular society. There is a direct link and easily recognisable pattern between the progress of civilisation and the progress of morality. Hence the term we are becoming more civilised.



So no, immoral acts will always be immoral weather or not we think them to be immoral or not. There may be things everyone does today that are hugely immoral, we just don't know any better. But our descendants who through progress and evolution will be more moral then us will know better and will judge us for our misunderstandings. As we judge the immoral actions of our ancestors.



Cheers

Answer 5

You're asking about absolutes. Does 2+2 equal 4 because we feel that way? No. It actually is 4. This is an absolute. The fact that we even think that pedophilia is not absolutely wrong is but an example of the effect of Godless ideologies playing on society.



We absolutely expect correct change at the register but we do not absolutely think rape is always wrong? Don't fall into the trap of moral relativism.

Answer 6

It's wrong because the society says it's wrong, other societies may have other views. What's your point?







Morality is still relative regardless whether you choose to believe it or not.



EDIT: Who said anything about claiming to be "superior"?



Your so called absolute moral values were created by some bronze age century goat herders.



Did you know you the Bible says it's ok to rape a girl if you marry her afterwards and pay her father 50 sheckels lol. That's moral?

Answer 7

It has been subject to the current morality of the time for how old you can have sex after someone hits puberty because you can understand at one time how they were seen as adults, but sex with anyone before puberty is, has and always will be wrong.

And also remember that the country with the lowest age of consent is the Vatican at 12 year because I think they were taking the laws of israel when they set that, But you'd think they'd change that with the paedophile scandals surrounding them but says a lot that the Vatican won't raise their age of consent.

Answer 8

Generally a society that focuses on producing healthy and psychologically stable, emotionally happy next generations are superior to those who don't.



In many societies throughout the world, this isn't the case - and, this is why they tend to be crummy societies to grow up in. You don't see people flocking to Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan or even China (from other cultures) - so that they can immerse themselves in the culture.



Mainly because those cultures suck balls, and people try to escape from them, rather than join them. That is usually a good indicator of the value of that culture's morals.

Answer 9

Pedophilia is wrong because it causes harm to a non-consenting non-adult. I don't see any moral relativism in that. However, Islam condones sex with a 10 year old, and the age of consent in the Vatican is 12 years.

Answer 10

Kid, if your god deemed pedophilia a sin he'd have used one of his commandments.

Right along with a commandment against Slavery and Rape.



He said nothing.



It was up to us to figure out how and why there should be laws against Slavery, Rape and child molestation.







Nearly EVERY single advancement towards morality (I.E: ceasing native genocide, freeing the slaves and women’s suffrage) was OPPOSED by the church and Christian organizations.



“Morality is doing what is right, no matter what you are told.

Religion is doing what you are told, no matter what is right.”



There is nothing good or bad but thinking makes it so… Bill Shakespeare.



Good-bad/right-wrong are in the eyes of the beholder.



I think Circumcision is barbaric - others don't.

I think Death Penalty is barbaric - others don't.

I think Child Marriage is barbaric - others don't.

I think Genital Mutilation is barbaric - others don't.

I think ALL Consenting Adults should have Equal Rights - others don't.



See?

~

Answer 11

There's nothing inherently wrong with anything. Assigning definite judgment values to things that don't even exist in the real world is stupid. Even if they do exist in the real world, judgments made it possible for the witch hunts (witches, homosexuals, rock music, jews, etc.) which have pervaded society for its entire existence.

Answer 12

Dude, you have an example of entire countries thinking it's not wrong - the Muslim ones. It's a clear example of how morals are relative.

Answer 13

Are you saying that every society has the same "moral codes"?



Because they don't.

Answer 14

the founder of one major religion married a nine-year-old girl?



the thing that is wrong is far wider. taking advantage of another person whose ability to make a decision is impaired by their youth, old age, physical or mental disability is wrong.

Answer 15

Well going by Christian standards it was ok for Moses but not ok now because god adapts his moral standards but isn't a moral relativist.

Answer 16

Pedophilia is not illegal in the US.



Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that pedophilia is wrong.



Where's you evidence that there's any "objective" objection to pedophilia?

Answer 17

So what are you saying? Are you a paedophile? If not, why not, as you seem to be defending it.

People like you make me sick.

Answer 18

It is wrong... so is shafting another man up the rectum.... the latter has been forced on us as 'normal' (yeah, sure)... how long before the former is too??..in the name of 'equal rights.