Mormon's: Did Jesus Lie about himself back then as to who He really is?

Question

If Jesus is actually a created being, offspring of Mary and Adam, why then was it not told by any of the writers back then?
What is your evidence Jesus is brother of Lucifer (and not the Eternal God), from the writings of the Apostles who knew Him best ?
Please use actual verifiable evidence

Answer 1

Confusion arises because many people fail to understand that when L.D.S. speak of God the Father, they are talking about ELOHIM. They believe that "Elohim is the father of our spirits" and that "men and women are God's spirit children." Elohim was once a man.



Then Elohim and one of his wives procreated and their first born was God the Son: "The God known as JEHOVAH is the Son, Jesus Christ... he is the eldest of the spirit children of Elohim... it was actually Jesus who was the Creator under the direction of God the Father."



Furthermore, the Lord identified himself as I AM. "Abinadi explained how Christ is the Father and the Son... Jesus appeared to Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon... The Lord Jehovah appeared in the Kirtland Temple... Jesus appeared to Joseph Smith..."



According to the lds link below, Elohim was once a man, Jehovah was the first born of Elohim and one of his wives and Jehovah came to earth as the man, Jesus.



One of Elohim's wives also gave birth to Michael, the archangel (known also as the Ancient of Days). Michael came to earth in a celestial body as Adam, bringing Eve with him, one of his wives. President Brigham Young said "When our father Adam came into the Garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organise this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days... He is our father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do."



Joseph Fielding Smith says this doesn't mean Adam was identified with God the Father (Elohim). He says Young meant to say that Adam was the pre-existent spirit known as Michael, who helped Elohim and Jehovah (another name for Christ) form this earth. Adam was given the key of salvation. so humanity is subject to Adam. Adam is considered to be 'a god' and humanity is subject to Adam. But Adam is subordinate to Jesus Christ, and Christ is subordinate to God the Father (Elohim). Jesus was begotten as a spirit by Elohim through Mary to give Jesus an earthly body. Jesus had at least one wife on earth because he progressed to godhood the way all Mormons must do - through marriage and sexual reproduction. See sources below.



Confused? I certainly am. I do not recognise this Jesus and he certainly is not the Jesus of the Bible. I am now going to lie down in a quiet and darkened room till this blinding headache goes away.

Answer 2

Jesus did not lie when he called himself the Son of God. (John 10:36) Others also called him the Son of God. Consider:



Showing that Jesus was clearly no ordinary person, an angel announced in advance his conception and birth, saying: “This one will be great and will be called Son of the Most High.” Notice that the angel said, not “God,” but “Son of the Most High.” Luke 1:30-32.



At thirty years of age Jesus presented himself to be baptized. On that occasion God’s own voice said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.” And so John the Baptist, who witnessed the event, said of Jesus: “This one is the Son of God.” Matt. 3:17; John 1:34.



Jesus’ apostles and friends repeatedly identified him in this way. Said Nathanael: “Rabbi, you are the Son of God.” (John 1:49) Peter exclaimed: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” (Matt. 16:16) Martha confessed: “You are the Christ, the Son of God.” (John 11:27) The apostle John wrote so people might believe that “Jesus is the Christ the Son of God.” (John 20:31) And of the apostle Paul’s ministry it is said: “He began to preach Jesus, that this One is the Son of God.” Acts 9:20.



Did Peter, Paul, John or any other of Jesus’ followers preach that he was God? No, from these scriptures it is clear that they taught he was God’s Son.



Jesus and Lucifer are not brothers. The expression “shining one,” or “Lucifer,” is found in what Isaiah prophetically commanded the Israelites to pronounce as a “proverbial saying against the king of Babylon.” Thus, it is part of a saying primarily directed at the Babylonian dynasty. That the description “shining one” is given to a man and not to a spirit creature is further seen by the statement: “Down to Sheol you will be brought.” Sheol is the common grave of mankind—not a place occupied by Satan the Devil. Moreover, those seeing Lucifer brought into this condition ask: “Is this the man that was agitating the earth?” Clearly, “Lucifer” refers to a human, not to a spirit creature. Isaiah 14:4, 15, 16.



"If Jesus is actually a created being, offspring of Mary and Adam, why then was it not told by any of the writers back then?"



But they did record that Jesus is a created being. At John 6:57, John records Jesus as saying: "I live because of the Father." That more than implies that Jesus was created. Also, John wrote about Jesus at Rev. 3:14, saying: "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God." So, Jesus was God's first creation.

Answer 3

Your premise that none of the Apostles did not write about something that is not contained in the New Testament is an illogical premise.



You do not know that the Apostles did not write about any number of things. Like every Anti-Mormon that has existed, you are not only an Anti-Mormon, you are nakedly anti-logic as well.



You do not know if an Apostle of Jesus Christ wrote a letter to another Apostle of Jesus Christ, unless you have a great deal of miraculous power, the kind of power that only a Prophet or one designated by a Prophet, has.



You are like the Atheists who say that there is no God, and that this is proven by science. When in fact, science does not have the ability to travel everywhere in the Multi-Verse to prove there is no God of the Multi-Verse. And even if that was possible, God could always move to another part of the Multi-Verse, and thus remain hidden. At this time in history, humans have only been able to go as far as the Moon.



So therefor the Atheists who assert that science has proven that God does not exist are completely absurd, and illogical, and are therefor making a false assertion, and have an ax to grind as well. The concept of being able to move between Universes, is only theoretical at this point, no one has actually proven this publicly. Certainly finding and disproving God at this point and time in history by scientists is completely beyond their capability.



But you have made a similarly inescapable easily recognized error in logic. Namely, that you do not have some God-like power to know what letters (or what was or was not written by Apostles) 2000 years ago. You do not have such pretended power. Not you and not any of your Grace-brothers has this kind of supposed power either.



Therefor the premises of your loaded questions is absurd.



Just a thought... Rather than focusing in on certain vague details of the after life, why don't you focus in on learning to keep the commandments of Jesus Christ?



Where did Jesus Christ himself say that by Grace your are saved, so therefor as a result listen to Dark Ages, flat Earth believing, Priests of Tyrants, who lived hundreds and hundreds of years ago... and still you spit out the same Grace Fanaticism that they spewed?



In the day of Judgment what if you are wrong?



What if living Christ's commandments is important?



What are you going to say then?



Hey, I'll do better next time?



There is no next time. There is no second chance. This is it. This is the last chance you have to improve as a person, and to repent like Jesus Christ said to repent. One life is all you get, and you are blowing it, by not concentrating on living the commandments of Jesus Christ.



Just because you believe something is so, does not make it so. (Two and two does not equal something other than four just because you say that it does... no matter how much Satan would argue that two and two equals anything that you want it to.)



Just because you believe that Grace allows you to sin whenever you want to sin, does not mean that that is what Grace allows you to do.



It is the Devils kingdom that allows for Grace.



It is the Devils Kingdom that allows for all manner of wickedness and filthiness to enter in to it.



This is the Kingdom that you and others like you are destined for if you do not repent, and become logical, and become honest, and embrace the truth, and embrace the commandments of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.



Only if you do this, do you have a chance to escape certain eternal destruction. No amount of Grace talk will change that reality. No amount of any talk will change that reality.



Your only chance at redemption is to embrace the truth, and to live the commandments of Jesus Christ with all of your heart, might, mind, and strength.



Focus in on the commandments of Jesus Christ and live them, if you have even an ounce of wisdom in you.

Answer 4

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Proof please....as you have requested it from us not hearsay and rumor



Mormons do not believe that Jesus is a created being or offspring of Mary and Adam.



From LDS.org



http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=3d077c2fc20b8010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD





Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God the Father in the flesh. He was the Creator, He is our Savior, and He will be our Judge. Under the direction of our Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ created the earth. Through His suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane and by giving His life on the cross—that is, by performing the Atonement—Jesus Christ saves us from our sins as we follow Him. Through His Resurrection, Jesus Christ saves us from physical death. Because He overcame death, we will all be given the gift of resurrection.



Edit: *Rolls eyes*



Sorry, Adam God Theory aside doesn't count as true doctrine nor does JOD either. Not to mention the Mormon Critic happens to quote splice a lot. of quotes out of the mix. Just because Brigham Young spoke something which by the way this ended up not being accepted by the church, doesn't make it doctrine.

Answer 5

We are under no obligation whatsoever to try to prove anything to you. But, it's impossible for US to prove things that are not even true. You assUme that this is what we believe and you want us to prove it.



Since your premises are wrong, then there is no answer.



We do not believe that Jesus was the offspring of Mary and Adam.



We believe that, before this life, our spirits lived with our Heavenly Father, who is the Father of our spirits, which is in the Bible. Jesus was the eldest of these spirits. Lucifer was also one of these spirits. You and I, and everyone else, was one of these spirits. So, technically, WE are the brothers and sisters of Jesus AND of Lucifer, at least before he fell and became Satan.



This is what we believe. Like I said we don't have to prove anything to you, because we can't.

Answer 6

I guess you missed the part where Lucifer was a fallen angel that was cast into Hell.



Genesis 1

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.



Isaiah 14

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.



All beings are sons and daughters of God whether they have mortal bodies or not. Lucifer was cast from Heaven to Hell. Who is in Hell? Satan. Lucifer = Satan



Rev.12

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.



What I find funny is how people say we're wrong about there being a war in Heaven in the premortal life when Rev.12 talks about the war in Heaven that led up to Lucifer being cast out and from then on being called Satan.



Now to the "Christ and Satan spirit brothers" issue.



Job 1

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.



Job 2

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.



Job 1 and 2 talk about Satan being included in being a son of God which would make him a spirit brother of Christ as well as us. How do you think Satan knows exactly how to work on people?



@Courtney, yea Satan is still a son of God.

Answer 7

we are all brothers and sisters of heavenly father..

lucifer is one of heavenly fathers son well at least he was im not sure he would still consider him a son now. So it would make sense jesus being the son of god also that lucifer was once jesus brother and our brother.

Answer 8

They can't answer correctly because they, alas, don't quite know. Mormonism is intentionally confusing. That way no one can precisely compare beliefs. Everything's left up in the air for eluding. LDS claim prophets speak for their man-god, but they can also speak for themselves, their "opinions", which all are recorded. It goes like this:



President/prophet speaks. His words are recorded (only up to 1886 in Journal of Discourses).....

Parts of his speeches from Conference, etc., are pulled out, sanitized, and stuck into the....

Doctrine & Covenants, where they put their favorite sayings and what's been canonized by their "Pope-like" supreme leader of the....

Quorum, a body of 12 men who also spout stuff they know little about and....

What they want to be known and practiced, and hopefully made into scripture so they can get their 15 minutes of fame, too.



Every one of their prophets does this, along with every one of their Quorum guys. They contradict each other, their president (who does NOT like that), themselves, their man-god, the Bible, the book of mormon, the Journal of Discourses, the Doctrine & Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price, The Sayings of Joseph Smith, Church History, and Joseph Smith himself. Mostly they all contradict God, the real one. Constantly, without fail.



Yet they have an answer for everything. One says Michael is their man-jesus. The next says he's not. One says Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. The next one comes along and says they are not. But don't worry. For any future questions about "X" and "Y", the one who said nay will claim yea, with loads of twisted scripture for it, from their president/prophet, themselves, their man-god, the Bible, the book of mormon, the Journal of Discourses, the Doctrine & Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price, The Sayings of Joseph Smith, Church History, and Joseph Smith himself. The others will remain silent or start chanting "I- believe-the-book-of-mormon-is-true-and-the-prophet-Joseph-Smith-is-from-God and......"



Now do you understand their game? Neither do I. Mormonism. Go figure.



I think what threw them was the word "Adam". They threw out that majorly embarrassing "Adam As God" official theory a while back. It originated from Brigham Young, who is on record as saying he never really bothered to read his bible for many years. He preached every Sunday in SLC for many of those years out of his tuckus. He developed the art of moving his lips along with the noise. A nice gift for a prophet. He learned from the best.