So you don't believe in sin?

Question

This question was prompted by another question of Markyyy..who said he doesn't believe in sin so needs no saviour.

What do the folks who do not believe there is sin think is the reason there is: rape, guys who love to rape then torture for sex pleasure, then kill... pedophiles, people who don't even care they make babies and what happens to them- they abandon the woman and kids.

What do you call a person who is constantly cruel to his wife and kids? Knows her so well he knows exactly what words will cut her to the soul with the cruelty of it? Same with kids... you never heard how cruel some parents are? "Youre such a loser- just like your Dad, etc" and on and on...

What do you then call it when someone sets an animal on fire and laughs cause they think it's funny?

What do you call it? What is the cure for it?

More education? More money thrown at the poor? Make everyone's environment a uptopia?

What do you think is mankind's problem?

Answer 1

Whosoever doesn't believe that there is sin in the world is a really BIG FOOL and believes all the lies of SATAN! Man was born into original sin through Adam & Eve's disobedience in the garden. Plus, do to Satan the world puts a circus on before our eyes and tricks many to sin, so that they will not be able to enter the Kingdom of God when their earthly life has ended.



Injustice against mankind of any type or destruction or alteration of anything in this world that was all made by God, is sin.



Well see who all are true believers and who are not on the day of the Great White Throne judgment. Those believers will be standing on Jesus' right receiving their rewards and the non-believers will be on God's left receiving their just punishments for all eternity. Which one will you be?

Answer 2

A sin is a transgression of divine law, a crime against God. To believe in sin is to believe in God, or more specifically a Judeo-Christian God. It is completely possible to believe that everything you listed is a moral or ethical crime, is wrong, is even evil, without calling it a sin.



The person who is "constantly cruel to his wife and kids" is an abuser. I don't have to call it a sin to believe it wrong. I'm more worried about the wife and kids than I am weather a god claims it is wrong.



Someone who sets an animal on fire is an animal abuser, an arsonist, and on their way to becoming a serial killer (Animal abuse, arson and bed wetting are the three childhood signs)



I don't have an answer. But as much as I believe honest faith does help, I don't think religion is always the answer. Forcing a religioss belief on others is never the answer. Christianity and accepting a savior works for some people, but it's not the only religion or the only answer.

Answer 3

I am not an atheist but I do not believe in sin. Nor do I believe in evil as it is commonly characterized. I think that what appears to be evil is actually just a darkness where the light of love has not penetrated. Although God's love is everywhere, there are people who have become so wrapped up in the darkness of their lives that they cannot perceive it. They are blinded by the curtain of the abuse or severe deprivation and indifference they have suffered at the hands of other human beings, or by the lack of opportunity to bond with any human being at a crucial time in their psychological development, or by other mental or emotional defect. Human beings need love, which comes through other human beings or through opening themselves to a direct experience of God. Those who either do not receive love or cannot perceive it are at risk of becoming "evil". The answer to eradicating evil from our midst is the creation of a just society in which all are treated equally and have equal access to health care and other basic resources. In such a society all individuals would have the luxury to give to others and to pursue their own spiritual development. This was the message of Moses, Jesus and all the other great teachers throughout history. This is the Kingdom of God, and it is our responsibility to bring it to fruition on earth. Thus we have only ourselves to blame for the existence of evil; not because of some mythological "fall" and not because of an inherent sinful nature, but because we have not yet adequately put love into action in our world.

Answer 4

"Does it relate to any of God's teachings." No, of course our beliefs don't relate to any of God's teachings. I'll let you in on one of our best-kept secret: there is a penthouse in Manhattan where we keep a schizo bag lady who talks to God and tells her what He wants. The next day, Poof! It's Catholic doctrine. (And I wonder how long it will take before someone posts that statement here in R&S as solid "evidence" against Catholicism because after all, they heard it straight from a Catholic's lips.) But to give your question far more attention than it deserves, Catholics believe that all sin is the result of disobeying God's commandments. Because we don't accept "Once saved, always saved," we believe that some very serious sins can lead to the loss of one's salvation. Things like murder and rape are called "mortal sins" for that reason. Lesser sins, while still damaging to one's relationship with God, are called "venial sins." They still need to be addressed in the Sacrament of Reconciliation and Penance (aka, Confession), but they do not lead to the loss of eternal life. There's more, but you'll have to excuse me now. I have a long distance call coming in from Manhattan, and it's really important.

Answer 5

Those people are cruel, callous, evil, psychopaths, sociopaths, sadists.



Why do you have to invent 'sin' as an explanation.



Since having the wrong god is a sin, why is it that Gandhi goes to hell, while Hitler gets to say that he believes in Jesus and gets to go the heaven. You call that justice?



Most of these people you describe profess to being Christian, so I do not think that religion is a good solution. In fact it is a bad solution because the excuse that some of these people have is "God made me do it."



If I had an easy answer I would have made it widely public already. The best I can suggest is pretty much the current system of police, prison and psychological treatment.

Answer 6

Some people are just cruel. Instead of coming up with wild ideas as to why people are like this, we should focus on what to do about it instead. People who are cruel and find pleasure in harming others are people who are considered a threat to society. Therefore they should be removed from society. Since we are a civil people, we may choose to use scientific study to find out the root cause(s) for these actions and behavior types. We may find that the accused have done these things because of some kind of personal illness or disorder. We may choose to treat these problems rather than punish the people for the actions. We may find that other accused persons were simply mean people and did what they did out of a disregard for human or animal life. In cases like this, we may wish to punish these individuals in a humane way with prison sentences, death penalties, etc.



As long as we are removing the threat of danger away from society, we are doing the most important part. If we really need to find out why these things happen, we should put effort into finding out rather than making up answers like sin, demon-possession, aliens, ghosts, etc. The longer we cling to myths and hokey ideas, the longer it will take for mankind to resolve these very issues.

Answer 7

Morally depraved to say the least. People can be good and do good things. Just look around you. I don't know what your beliefs are, but it seems to me that there are many good people and many bad people. What is at the root of it (the problem, as you say)?

I say choice. Free will. We all have it, no matter how much anyone wants to deny it or blame someone else (a parent, abuser, past relationship, the world!...)

Everyone has the choice to behave or think the way they do. I know, plenty will say you don't. I don't believe that. I think that's a scapegoat for the horrific things some people do - like the ones you mentioned. I'm not saying that they can change 'in a snap' or 'at the drop of a hat'. They need to be willing to change or accept change or help. That's a HUGE obstacle. A person has to want to change or how can you help them? Some just wallow in it. They'd tell you that's just the way they are. People tend to repeat cycles of abuse or cruelty. Yes, the patterns are deeply ingrained in the abused, abusers, killers, cruel souls, sadists,... and the list goes on!

How do you 'fix' it? I think there are lots of ways, depends on the person. Counselling works for some, psychotherapy or what have you. For many it is tapping into a belief higher than oneself. Some people are considered lost causes, I know. But I don't know them personally. Deep down I don't really think they are. It's just that I see that it would take an awful lot of work on the part of the helpee as well as any helper. What would it look like if someone cared about them? About getting them out of their "yuk", whatever that may be. It's hard to speak in such general terms! I think it takes a special person just to reach out to a 'troubled' one, but I know people who do. People who have been through similar circumstances. Different people need different kinds of 'help', don't you think? And it's obviously not going to get solved in a hurry.

Great question! Thanks for letting me rant! That's just my 2 cents.

Answer 8

All sin means is going against God's word. As an atheist I don't believe in sin because I don't believe in God. That is not to say that I don't believe some people are bad and do bad things. I just don't label it as sin.



If the cure for all of that is religion than why is the US one of the more religious countries around with approximately 90% people believing in some form of religion however we also rank up high in crime statistics in almost all of the things you listed.

Answer 9

Sin. (verb) - to violate a law of God or a moral law.

Sin (noun) - a violation of a law of God or a moral law.



In the context of religion, in which case the word sin is used to denote an estrangement from God's will and law, there is no sin in the eyes of an atheist as there is no higher power, or God.



If, in a moral and non-religious context, the word sin is used to denote an immoral and/or unethical action or behavior, then yes, there is such thing as sin.



However, the word sin is used almost exlusively in a religious context nowadays.

Answer 10

Some people could apply the word "sin" to apply to sin against other humans and sin against society.



Apparently he sticks to a religious interpretation of the word sin.



ADD: Any Christian would be hard pressed to find those things you named as specific sins in the NT. Some of them are named in the OT, but most of them would require extrapolation or the use of the Talmud.

By contrast, the legal system make no question about them being wrong in modern Western society.

Answer 11

Those bad types of people you listed, I call them f*cking disgusting wastes of human flesh. Not "sinful".

Some of them are just a$$holes, some are mentally ill.



Cure? Well some will get put behind bars, which won't really cure them but will keep them from doing harm to people. As for the other ones.. well I guess you could pump the god fear into them, but aren't the majority of people in jail actually religious? So uh, that method doesn't seem to be working... Apparently the ones who believe in "sin" are the ones committing the most of it.

Answer 12

Mankinds problem: Judgement. There are all kinds of problems. To point out the problems is to live in the problem. To live in the solution is a different story.

Sin is not a religous term, but actually a term from archery,; it means to miss the mark. We al miss the mark. Only one person hit the bulls eye every time.

Answer 13

Human beings. That's what I call the reason there are all those things. Callous human beings in some cases, certainly, but human beings nonetheless. There's no need for some external concept of "sin", which essentially just means transgression again a divine law. Human beings transgress their own laws and the laws of respect for one other just fine without having to walk the line for some deity as well.



We're a wonderful, awful species, full of potential for hope and despair. We need to realise that we're the only reason we do what we do and take responsibility for that.

Answer 14

God knew that when he gave mankind freewill he was opening up a can of worms. The only way to get rid of sin is to remove free will. Don't let religion tell you anything else. Those who were preaching righteousness wound up being the biggest sinners because, they had free will.

Answer 15

What you call sin , I call breaking the law . The "cure" for breaking the law is called a jail . I n very serious cases it's called execution .

Laws and morals date back to the stone age . Without them , there could be no civilization .

Sin is breaking a law of the church , it is not recognized by Atheists . Civil law pertains to all .

Answer 16

There is nothing like Sin, but world is over saturated with mad people, who fail to distinguish good or bad, love and hate & do harm to self and others. Its law that gives punishment, not the god. If left unpunished by the law and allowed let he be punished by god, more sins will be accumulated in his bag and who knows what punishment he gets after he dies. So crime is a better word.

Answer 17

I call it evil.



Some people are bad. Some people are good. Bad people do that stuff.



Even if everyone was given a free, top notch education, free money, unlimited love, and a flawless family there would still be people who did cruel things. That's mankind.

Answer 18

Markyyy and people like him can live in their own world. They have their free will and their own set of opinions and rules. That does not change the truth. They have their own set of morals, and they can even claim to have better morals than God's standard. They can be outward morally good but since they do not submit to God's moral law, they might be good for anyone else but God. They do not talk contemptuously and slanderously about anyone else but God.



I choose to worhsip God, Jesus Christ who is my Lord and Savior.

Answer 19

Christians!!!



Just look at the postings on here - intolerant, egotistical, hate filled and bigoted. Eschewing education, science, evolution, works of fiction and opposing human rights!!



Sin is a christian concept and boy do they succeed with it!! government research shows that Christians are vastly over represented in prisons for sexual and violent crime. The Catholic church is paying millions in compensation to the victims of sexual crime by their priests alone!!!!



If only Christians would give up their vile human emotions and rediscover the loving and forgiving god they used to have!!!

Answer 20

Nerd,



Your post is one of the most intellectually dishonest things I've read in this forum. Really disappointing. Not only do you have a historical misunderstanding of the text, but a basic (willful?) understanding of the nature of God. If God only wishes for one man and one woman to be consecrated in marriage, do you really think all of your asterisks about sexual perversion is what those verses presume?

Answer 21

Criminals come in all varieties and many of them claim to be Christians. And since the majority of prisoners claim to be Christians then obviously Christianity isn't the solution.



Even those supposedly who've been born again can be criminals. If that weren't so then there wouldn't be any use for anything but the gospels for the NT.



Bottom line.... you call them sins....... I call them crimes.

Answer 22

No I don't, its a silly religious concept. I believe in horrendous acts however, I believe in right or wrong, good or bad, I just cut out the mythical crap.



Typical emotive religious nonsense.... Considering your "god" condones the killing of women and children, acts of genocide , and once nearly wiped out the whole earth.

Answer 23

"rape, guys who love to rape then torture for sex pleasure, then kill... pedophiles, people who don't even care they make babies and what happens to them- they abandon the woman and kids. "

-And all they have to do to be redeemed in Christianity is to accept Jesus. LOL that is truly F*CKED.

Answer 24

Evil acts exist. Calling those acts "sin" implies some divine outside judge, which has not been shown.

Answer 25

I love to sin!!!

You are confusing "sin" with "evil".

The sex offenders you name do not exist through sin, but through pure evil.

Mankind was born with a proclivity towards evil.

It is up to us individually to sort out the difference.

Answer 26

the definition of sin is an offense to a god since Markyyy is an atheist he doesn't believe in gods therefore he doesn't believe in sin, if he doesn't believe in sin then he needs no "Saviour" to wash away those sins

Answer 27

They are just EVIL people. Doesnt mean they have created a sin in some imaginary beings eyes. They are just EVIL.

Answer 28

Sin is not real, morality is.



I don't need to be told about sin to have a sense of morals.

Answer 29

There is no problem. There is no morality. We have formed societies because the common man decided to band together against the alpha male so we can have mates, too. Civilization is imposed. It isn't natural.

Answer 30

People who deny sin are just afraid that they'll get theirs on judgment day for everything they've done. And they will.

Answer 31

There is evil but "sin" is a religous term. You can not believe in "sin" without denying evil.

Answer 32

That was brought up long ago by the Christian agnostic gospels.

Answer 33

Okay I believe in sin. But it is a mankinds word so...:)

Answer 34

Great post. I agree with all the points



Here is another one. Why do we have to teach our kids to be good but never teach them how to bad they just know how to do it.

Answer 35

Evil is real. Sin is not. Don't be evil, that's my motto.

Answer 36

Sin is very real....caused by satan and wickedness...God putting him away is the cure....pray for His Kingdom which will come!

Answer 37

Sin is mankind's problem, and our blindness to it. Good post.

Answer 38

Sin is in the mind of the clergy who knows how to swindle your faith inthe Bible God... What is sin? this is not sin in the Bible, but it s illegal in our secular society!



In Bible times it was very easy to buy a suitable slave and do with him/her anything that your vicious heart desires with all of God's blessings!!! You can use the slave for the kinkiest imaginable gay, bizarre or straight sex. There are plenty of arguments in the Bible to justify ANY KIND OF KINKY SEX OR FETISH!!! Believe it or not, pedophilia in all its forms is PERMITTED and regulated in the Bible, Old and New Testaments nothing has changed!!! If a man likes to have a little girl for a while for whatever pleasure HE DOESN’T DATE HER! He buys her as a slave from a God fearing fellow Israelite in need of money, or even from a good Christian home!!!



Titus 2:9 (NIV) Teach slaves* (*including young little girl slaves) to be subject to their masters in everything* (*and I mean, EVERYTHING without restrictions no matter how kinky!!!), to try to please them, not to talk back to them,



Exodus 21:20-21 NIV “If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod* (*for whatever reason!) and the slave dies as a direct result* (*especially if the master is drunk or plain mad!), he must be punished* (*but how? will the master get a slap on the wrist?), but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property* [*KJV says “his money”* (*he/she is not even a human being! That is why America up to the 1860’s justified Biblical slavery!!!)].



So you can keep beating your male or female slave to a pulp every third day or so and as long as he/she recovers you are a HOLY and RIGHTEOUS person before our Loving God and Heavenly Father! The whole Bible is decisively pro-slavery of the kinkiest sort! Escaping slaves were ALWAYS TOLD TO RETURN to their masters!!!



1 Peter 2:18 (NIV) Slaves* (*including young slave girls!), submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.* (*how kinky can you get?)



Exodus 21:7-8 (NIV) "If a MAN SELLS his DAUGHTER* (*NOT HIS SON but his daughter!!!) as a SLAVE, SHE is not to go free as male slaves do. If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself* (*for whatever kinky pleasure), he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her.



Can you imagine her fate if her God fearing daddy doesn't want her back and her master is a sadistic sexual pervert? Another more subtle way of getting a GIRL for a wife is to be a predator at a ball party to watch the girls dancing and grab for yourself anyone that you wish to have for a wife… The Law of God has a bunch of loopholes that allow MEN this pleasure, too! No silly dating necessary!!!



Judges 21:23 * So that is what the Benjamites did. While the girls were dancing, each man caught one and carried her off to be his wife…



In Bible days women had no rights and were worth much less than men! As long as the master follows the Bible injunctions he is a Holy man of God, like Righteous Lot who had sex with his young virgin daughters until he got them pregnant, or the Levite priest of God in Judges 19-21 who carved up his gang raped concubine in 12 pieces and send her in pieces to all Israel! Amen?



Luke 16:17 (NIV) (Jesus said) It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.



Hopefully our secular government will never follow any Law of God to rule our Nation! When we did that a lot of innocent ladies were hung from tree branches with a rope tied around their neck! The first felons to be sentenced to death in Colonial America were witches!!! BTW… I am not taking ANYTHING out of any Biblical CONTEXT! It is the Secular world that is forcing the Clergy to conform to current morality standards… In due course, the validity of same sex couples will be determined by the secular government! The Christian clergy will have plenty of opportunities to regulate the morality of same sex couples. Up to the 1860s the Bible-type slavery was perfectly legal here in America, now it is illegal… so everything changes with time thanks to liberal non religious governments! Conservative Evangelicals want to take us back to Bible times!

Answer 39

sin is real..