Question:
Was the killing of Jews and JWs during the Holocaust persecution by christians/christianity?
2009-03-02 11:48:38 UTC
And in that case, was the killing of the other people persecution by christianity. (ie, gypsies and homosexuals)

I honestly have no idea whether the Jewish have legitimate grievence (or if they feel grievence at all) towards christianity and am curious. If it were just Nazis, then I understand, but the Nazis were christian... please explain.
Eleven answers:
Simon T
2009-03-02 12:03:41 UTC
It was definitely persecution by Christians.



The people that instigated it used racial and religious stereotypes to help justify the inhumanity to the public.







If I say:

Penguins are black and white.

Penguins are birds.

All birds are black and white.



You can easily see the fallacy in my last statement.



But people fell for the argument with:



This man is a thief.

This man is a gypsy

All gypsies are thieves.



Or

Some bankers made huge profits in WWI at the cost of German lives.

Many bankers are Jewish.

All the Jews made huge profits in WWI at the cost of German lives.









And today many people are trying to perform the same argument with Muslims and terrorism.





Edit:

Back to your question, it was not a persecution by Christianity or the church, (Go back to the inquisition for that) any more than Stalin's purges were persecution by atheism.



These were both the delusions of charismatic sociopathic and probably insane leaders who though fear and charisma managed to persuade people to justify the inhumane actions that they were ordered to perform.
?
2016-05-24 07:28:37 UTC
Great post; have a star! I agree with you that Jews and Muslims CAN live together peacefully; it's happened in the past and please G-d, it will happen again. It's the extremists on both sides that cause the problems. Some of the answers to your post are quite worrying. Firstly: to correct the remark someone made about 'Jews helping the Nazis' - utter rubbish. There were some Jews in the camps who were told that unless they performed certain tasks then their entire families would be slaughtered - so they complied. That's a different matter. Another answerer has yet again stated that Jews 'always' mention the Holocaust - it's the opposite, in fact. On this site EVERY time the Holocaust is mentioned it's in a post by a non Jew. Which is fine, but why do people keep asking we Jews to stop talking about it - when it's not even us raising the topic??? THE KID - hey you, listen up a minute: I love your posts, they are great, and your answers are often among the best - but your response here was a bit aggressive and it was unnecessary! These are emotive topics, we all simmer a bit - but take it down a notch! We all still luv ya, though!
acam666
2009-03-03 00:59:37 UTC
The people who did the persecuting included many who would have said they were christian. The Pope would have agreed that they were.



It is a good example to give when people say that morality is derived from religion. In my opinion religion has been the reason for many atrocities. The problem is that if god says something is right there is no way left for mere adherents to his church to compromise.



Of course the truth is that there is no god and everything he is alleged to have said came from the pens of men.



I don't think any religion has a legitimate complaint against any other religion. They are all dreadful.



But the jews and the romany are also races and few people would say that black people in the US or South Africa didn't have a legitimate grievance. So may be, as a race, they did have a complaint.



But homosexuals are not a race and they certainly had as much to complain about as the others, especially as many of the nazis were also homosexual.



But I'm not one of those who accept the christian teaching that the sins of the fathers have to be paid for by their children unto the nth generation.



An injustice done to my grandfather is too old for me to bother about. If I've had a fair chance in life and nobody oppressed me then I reckon I have no complaint.



Bearing an old grudge isn't a virtue is it?
Annsan_In_Him
2009-03-02 12:22:38 UTC
When we look at the total picture and see how many different groups of people were persecuted to death by Hitler and the Third Reich, we see what happens when a megalomaniac gets into power. Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, gypsies and homosexuals were all seen as impediments to a master race. There was nothing Christian about that ideology.



To say that "the Nazis were christian" is misleading. Very many people in Germany were Catholics with a much smaller number being Protestants, while an even smaller number were practising Christians within the Nazi regime. So only some Nazis claimed to be Christians. Very many had no belief in God, or were practising atheists for all that they might have been baptised as babies.
2009-03-03 07:21:31 UTC
I've just read an article written by a Jew whose grandparents were German Jews. He wrote about how his family were affected by the Holocaust, so I'll quote him:



"My grandparents, like many German Jews of their generation, were strong atheists; yet my father's parents believed that their children, as immigrants to England, should adapt to British life. They therefore had all their children baptised. Later my mother also wanted to escape the narrow ingrown Jewish community in Manchester so, whilst in her late teens, she went down the road to a local church and was baptised! In neither case was baptism viewed as being in any way religious; rather it was seen as a cultural form to aid identification with the British community.

"So I was brought up without any religious teaching or practice but, if anything, we were 'Christian' and I too was baptised as a baby... My mother had taught us nothing about our Jewish heritage or history, so [the Bible] opened my eyes to a new world. At that time my Jewishness was being brought home to me by the shocking revelations in the news of what had been happening in Germany during the war... and I found myself the butt of severe anti-Semitism. For the next couple of years I was badly bullied and miserable, but I was still reading the Scriptures, like a novel, from the beginning to the end."



The author, Martin Goldsmith, refers to many Jews in Germany being atheists, yet happy to get baptised as a pragmatic measure to help them become accepted in a new culture! He wasn't told anything about his Jewish heritage. Religion played no meaningful part in his family's life. Now, just imagine if many Christians in Germany were also atheists - indifferent to their religious heritage and having been baptised as infants. It meant nothing to them. This should not be a surprise to anyone. Millions of people just go through the outward motions of religious ceremonies (like baptisms, marriages and funerals) as a social norm, yet without having any belief or faith themselves. Recognising that fact would prevent blaming an entire religion for Nazi atrocities - millions of people might have allowed those things to be done in their name, but many millions more objected to that.



Martin Goldsmith has just written a book called "Any Complaints? Blame God!" - how best to question God by learning from the Jewish prophet Habakkuk. (Authentic Media)
Dalek Queen
2009-03-02 11:53:58 UTC
it wasn't persecution by christianity. it was persecution by a charismatic nutjob. he managed to scare and charm enough people into following his beleifs to creat the holocaust, but he was not representative of all chrisitans when doing so.
oldguy63
2009-03-02 11:54:56 UTC
I think what you are searching for is Hitler, not Christianity. How do people end up blaming all the horrors of the world on Christians?
New Creation
2009-03-02 11:58:48 UTC
You are speaking of Hitler the man raised Catholic and turned occultist.
coffee_pot12
2009-03-02 12:07:46 UTC
no...there were many 7th day adventist there also...christians were also killed ..get your info straight...



Nazis are not christian in any way shape or form...
Teeeem
2009-03-02 11:52:08 UTC
nope
michelle
2009-03-02 12:07:19 UTC
IT has a lot to do with the Zionist, it all started. It still lives.


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