Christians, I'm interested in your response....logical mini-essay on God and his supposed knowledge?

Question

Christians, I'm interested in your response....logical mini-essay on God and his supposed knowledge?

Answer 1

A reasonable question: People believe that god is a butler or slave and he follows us around fixing stuff for us. Illusion!

He is a power spirit creature who lives somewhere else. OK

Col 1:15 says he created another spirit creature Jesus Christ,

By means of him all other things were created. Including myriads which means millions of millions of other spirit creatures.

None of which at this point lived on the earth. Aliens

They decided to created the earth and made it beautiful like fixing up the nursery for a new born. Gave it streams of water, land, mountains and valleys. Last but not least a man then gave him a wife. None they can fill the earth. Genesis 6:6 says some of these spirit creatures wanted to live with the daughters of men.

this was the first time in the universe a women was created.

They are all sons of God. So now comes wickedness.

That was there choice to sin. free will

Now we polute the earth, make alcohol and get drunk, make war because of power, greed and just plain mean.

Should god follow everyone around and save them from the effects of the earth. If he could have then why did he cause a flood in Noah's day. He said he regretted even making man in the first place. So he was hardly predestined to be bad.

He destroyed them because it says the earth was full of violence.

regrettably he couldn't stop the violence. when Isreal sinned couldn't stop that either. but he did stop protecting them.

when he gets bad again he will destroy a whole world of people.

Hate to tell you this but you are on your own down here.

You are responsible for your actions.

Answer 2

"Gods Will" is an incident that takes place and we have no control over it. There are things we just cannot control no matter how hard we try. I believe "Gods Will" can be both rewards and punishment to test our faith.



When God put us here he gave us the "free will" which gives us the privelage to think for ourselves. This means we have the choice to listen to him or follow the Devil.



And when something bad happens like the Twin Towers, true it was the terrorrists' fault because they sinned and took not only their lives but thousands of others as well, but Satan is the one who influenced them. You see they took it upon theirselves to follow him and not the Lord. I understand thousands of people lost their life that day, but you have to understand everything happens for a reason. God works in mysterious ways. The way I see it is if it is your time to go then your gonna go no matter what. God put us here why can't he take us out of here when he wants? For example there was people way up on 126th floor of that building that survived, the same floor the plane hit, and yet they survived. This just simply means it was not their time to go. It says in the Bible God will not put any burden upon us that we cannot handle.



Therefore we can determine what is "Gods Will" and what is "Free Will" by simply asking ourselves... "was I able to control that?" I f your answer is no then it was indeed "Gods Will". If your answer is "I was able to control what just happened" then it was your "Free Will" even if you chose the wrong decision. But we have to remember our Lord is a forgiving Lord no matter what we did. Did you know everyone of us sin at least 7 x's a day? Even christains.



I also believe things happen as a "Wake up call". Like a life and death situation. Have you ever heard of a second chance? Well God gives us many chances over and over. Sometimes he just takes things into his own hands again this is "Gods Will". As I mentioned earlier I think another good defintion of "Free Will" is our ability to choose whether we will follow God or the Devil.

Answer 3

Nice to see some good, deep thinking about God, regardless of what you conclude.



I can't really answer this because I don't go for the whole God thing, but I did ask a related question - when innocent people get hurt, who's responsible for the clean up, who is supposed to try to fix the bad and, in general, who is responsible for trying to stop bad people from doing bad things? [Other humans? God?]



I see it not as bad people having free will to accept God or not or act against him. I see it as good people getting hurt for the things that God allows bad people to do. What about the good people out there who do everything right? Sure, the bad guys have free will and will pay for their sins (whatever), but that can negate the free will of others to do good. How is the harm to another justified as another person having the free will to do wrong? I guess I'm wondering, why do the innocent have to pay for the bad making a decision to be evil?

Answer 4

Your question is not one that can simply summed up like a fast food order. God has given us free will and yes those who are responsible for 9/11 did that of thier own accord. To answer the question of the sick child. I knew a couple who grew up "right" they came from the "right" environment, went to the right schools, got the right jobs, never did drugs etc. But thier child was born with deformities and didnt live long. The big question was "why"? These two did everything right, it nearly broke alot of peoples faith. God trusted them to take care of that little one more than He would have trusted someone else. Then there is the scenario of the "bad" parents who also had a deformed child not destined to live long. Again the resounding question was "why?" the answer; a test of character. You see, we can not approach the mind of God, nor discover His will in our own lives without searching Him out for ourselves. You and i can read the same Bible and come up with totally different meanings for it for us. The answer is not always the same for everyone. I know you've heard this before, it is a question of faith and if you are willing to take a step off of your 'safe' ledge and learn to trust and walk on faith seeking answers as you go. None of us has THE answer, there is no religion that has the true and total path NO ONE. The path that is chosen for you is predetermined but only if you choose to walk in His will and not your own, like blowing up a building etc. It is mans will to build unsafe nuclear reactors and poison neighborhoods and fly planes into buildings. The other part of that is it does send people to church or chat rooms or read a bible to seek answers. This is a test, this is only a test. Thats why our life here is so short. A mini-essay as you say, keep seeking, keep asking questions 'cause the only dumb question is/are the ones you dont ask. Forgive those 'christians' who give dumb 'pat' answers. They have lost thier way and become so westernized to believe that they have to fix everything or have an answer for everything and when they dont they give a blanket answer that doesnt have much substance. He is in us and talks to us, the point of choice is do we listen? Or do we choose our own path? I have met Doctors who went into medicine only for the money, same with Ministers, they went into it for the money or prestige. Was that Gods' will or thiers? We are given free will but the "will" is really where will we end up not the road to the end of the journey, because we all end up there no matter which path we choose. If you are looking for a more definitive answer it is within you only. I recommend to you not to read the Bible in a religious mind set, but open your mind to having a communication with your creator, He will reveal Himself to you and give you insight and clarity. Our problem in general is we dont ask enough questions, we always want to do it on our own, what we want, what is our will. So yes, they do both exist, Gods' will and mans' will. We are given choices all day, every day. That is Gods' will.

Answer 5

See, this question is not new. It has been asked for at least 2000 years. And it has been answered! It's a little complex, but here's the basic gist of it. Saying that your future is predestined shows that you have an incorrect understing of God. From God's point of view, there is no 'time'. To say that God is bound by time is saying that God is not perfect. There is no past, present, and future to God. (It is almost impossible to understand how God exists in this way because we, as humans, are bound by time.) Anyway, the point is that, to God, all that has happened, is happening, and will happen is seen by God in one instant (This is a simplification, obviously, because we can't understand exacly how this works). So, he does not know what 'will' happen, he knows what is happening, from his point of view. Thus, there is free will, but from out clouded understanding it seems that God 'knows the future', while all he truly knows is the 'present'.

Answer 6

First of all, there is no such thig as a predestined fate--that contradicts free-will. As far as God letting things happen its because he s not supposed to show favortism so he lets the rain fall on the good and the bad. But if you ask for help or pray and stay close then there will be help. He also helps people who absolutely dont believe in him.

Answer 7

Man, what a Question!

(had to take 3 break's just reading it--just kidding).

Listen, you have to Dig Down till you Hit some ROCK, then start your Building there, not on the Sand.



ROCK:

GOD Created the EARTH and the STAR SYSTEM.

Everything was GOOD.



GOD gave TOTAL AUTHORITY of the CREATION to Mankind through ADAM.



ADAM Blew-It and Let the Devil (satan and his Angel's) gain Authority over the CREATION.



Killing, Stealing and Destroying started happening cause men (male and female) started following the Devil's Thought's.

Think about this and ask GOD to show you more.

Hope this helps. Ditto.............

Answer 8

Dear Miss Verlaine,



One of the characteristics of God is that He is omniscient that means that He knows everything. Certainly verses of the Bible tell us that before we were formed He knew us.



Because we live in a fallen world, people have the capacity to sin. 9/11 happened because of terrorists (not because God put in their minds or hearts) but a bunch of terrorists who believed the wrong thing (they believed they were doing it for God and the act of terrorism was obviously against the things that God teaches). God's omniscience means he's not surprised by anything.



There is a story and a bible passage which i think can give us some insight into this. There is a story in either 1 or 2 Kings where King David is running from Saul who is trying to kill him. David hides in a cave and asks God if i go to such and such city will Saul kill me, and God tells him if he goes to that city Saul will indeed kill him. David chooses to not go to that city. But David had to make the choice to trust God's word or not. And God is not to blame for Saul trying to kill David. Everyone had free choice, God is able to influence, and nothing man does is going to surprise God.



The next question then might be: does God Care. 2 Peter tells us that God is longsuffering, desiring all to come to repentance. Why would an all-powerful God suffer? Because He watches so many of the things that goes on in the world (watching creation act in ways contrary to what He had designed them for) and yet He waits to judge all humanity because when He returns (believers get raptured out) and judgement comes upon the earth and so God is waiting mercifully to judge sin- but suffers as He waits because of man's evil deeds.



To say it was in God's plan just means that it's within His Sovereignty. That he doesn't cause the evil, but he allows it, because He respects man's free will. Man has the capacity to choose to follow God or not. To choose to allow His influence and instruction in our lives or not.



God does care, but he is longsuffering so more can come to repentance...



Hope that helps... and i'm sorry that other Christians have tried to pass the buck or not explain their understanding of God's sovereignty clearly... i hope this will suffice...



Kindly,



Nickster

Answer 9

Free will was given to us in the garden of eden, it's the thing that seperates us from household pets, if we didn't have free will we would be Gods good little robots. Free will is necessary for a perso9n to choose or reject God, He doesn't want forced slaves, but free will followers. Would you want a bunch of friends who loved you for your money or a few friends who loved you for who you really were.

There are natural laws in effect, laws just as absolute as gravity. Tornadoes and hurricanes and earthquakes and illnesses happen, we can't run off screaming "why did you do this God?" Part of life on earth is this potential for disaster, it is not unique to any one person or faith.

Answer 10

'Omniscience' is logically incompatible with 'free will'. 'Omniscience', all by itself, is sufficient to put the lid on 'free will'; omnipresence and omnipotence are irrelevant. It is not necessary for god to intervene in order to negate 'free will' as a possibility. Omniscience negates free will all by itself.



If we really DO have 'free will', then an omniscient god is logically excluded. The logical fallacy lies in the premise that if god is omniscient, all outcomes are already known to god... everything that you think, decide and do... and everything that you WILL think, decide, and do.



For an omniscient being, all of existence over all of time is laid out as a tapestry before him... past, present and future, down to the smallest detail of material, of thought and of deed, and all is constantly in his awareness. There is no past, present and future from that perspective... there is only an eternal 'now'.



If that is the case, since god already knows everything that will happen, then everything is already decided... and as we go along through life, we are merely doing what has already been seen by god. Since god knows and sees everything that will happen, NOTHING that we think or do can be contrary to what god already sees and knows. We might THINK we have free will... but since we are merely acting out what god already sees and knows, this can be no more than an ILLUSION of free will.



Put another way, if you come to a point of decision, you have no choice but to take the path that god already knows you will take... there is no other option. That works all the way down the path of cause-and-effect... and, along the way, it even casts doubt on the validity of the concept of cause and effect. I don't want to get into that, though... it makes my hair hurt.



So, imagine that since before time began, since before the universe was created, god has 'known' that you would come to a point of decision at some spatial and temporal coordinate, and that faced with the possible paths A and B, you would take path A.



Now, during the course of your life, you arrive at that spatial and temporal coordinate where this choice exists. You evaluate the potential outcomes, and you have it in your head that you have 'free will', and thus, you are free to choose between path A and path B. However, since god is 'omniscient', and god 'knows' that you will take path 'A', then path B IS NOT an option... it IS NOT a matter of choice... it is a 'NECESSITY'. OF NECESSITY, you WILL take path A. Not 'must'... not 'can'... WILL take path A. You DO NOT have a choice. Path B is NOT an option... it is not even a POSSIBILITY. The best that you can achieve is the ILLUSION that you are free to choose.



So, either god is omniscient OR we have free will. It is QUITE IMPOSSIBLE for BOTH of these conditions to coexist.



The only way out of this logical dilemma is to limit god's power; i.e., start taking away things that god can see and know, until we get to a point where free will BECOMES a possibility. But when we start doing that, then he ceases to be omniscient... and thus ceases to be a 'supreme being'.



So... free will is an impossibility concomitant with an omniscient diety. The following sums up the possibilities:



1. There is no omniscient diety... therefore, the whole argument is stupid and irrelevant.



2. IF we possess 'free will' AND god exists, THEN, of necessity, it is IMPOSSIBLE that god is omniscient. (This does not preclude the notion of 'god'... it just means that he can't be as 'supreme' as one might think he is... or wish him to be.) You are (logically) obliged to acknowledge that god CAN NOT BE all knowing... and since omniscience is one of the things that makes god 'all powerful', then this means that god CAN NOT BE omnipotent, either.



3. IF god exists AND god is omniscient THEN, OF NECESSITY, it is IMPOSSIBLE that that we have free will, and you are (metaphorically speaking) nothing more than a piece on god's eternal game board; and, thus, "... man is not responsible for his actions."



Personally, I vote for number 1. You can pick any one you want... but YOU MUST PICK ONE, because there are NO OTHER possible outcomes... NO OTHER logically valid choices.



It is unfortunate (for the Abrahamic death cults of desert monotheism) that the concepts of god were solidified as dogma a few thousand years before the philosophical discipline of 'logic' was dreamed up by the Greeks. Those that concocted the religion did not have access to the intellectual tools that would have enabled them to realize that they had 'screwed the pooch' with respect to assigning god's impossible attributes. It wasn't until the 4th century that this logical impossibility garnered serious attention, and churchmen got their theological 'dancin' shoes' on, trying to weasel their way out of the logical dilemma.



They did not succeed, and this issue continues to be debated even 'til this day. This logical dilemma (and the resulting 'cognitive dissonance') was a key element in some of the various 'heresies' that were spawned in the early days of Christianity.



However, the simple observation that these impossible beliefs still exist shows that this does not seem to have been a very big hindrance, under the simple expediency that "There is no problem so big that we cannot ignore it, until it will go away." Too bad for them, though... it DOESN'T go away.



Corporate religion is helped along by the fact that most 'believers' do not employ logic or critical thinking skills; heck... that's why they're believers in the first place. If they employed logic and critical thinking, they WOULD NOT BE believers. So, even though these concepts create a logical impossibility, it does not seem to present a significant problem for them.

Answer 11

There is no predestination. In other words, our lives are not planned out for us. Our free will is one of the most precious gifts God has given to us. To choose good or to choose evil. To choose to do God's will or that of Satin. That is our purpose for being here. To choose who we will follow makes it our choice where we will go after we die. Yes, If we live to have the Holy Ghost with us, and pray for guidance, God will let us know His will but He does not force us to choose His will. Satin is always trying to influence us, even by deception, to make us think good is bad and bad good. He will stop at nothing to bring us down to hell. This is our free agency to choose. Just as God does not force us to choose right, He does not interfere with ordinary things happening in our lives. Not even the terrible things that happen to little children. I could go on but this is getting too long.

Answer 12

You've hit on several complex issues the summary of my answer is



The bottom line is God is all-powerful but he gave up his power over us. He can interact with us and he does know the end of the story. However we don't know the end so as far we're concerned the end hasn't happened and we can make choices against God's influence, God just knows what choices we will make and has already taken them into account in his plan.





Below I explain how I see things in more detail:



1. The first one I want to address is you said



"Supposedly, this "God" is all-knowing and powerful. If He already has a plan for us, do we have any power to change our situation? If He planned for us to act in certain ways, then we are not a product of our environment. We are creations of God, and therefore, reflections of what He wanted in us"



The plan that God has for us takes in to account the choices he knows we will make. We still make the choices he just knows what choices we'll make based on circumstances around us, because he's seen the end of the story.



It's kind of like God has created a self writing story, in a story you can skip to the end to find out what choices the characters made but that doesn't mean you as the reader had control over those choices, God gave use the chance to write our own story he just interacts with use based on what we've "written" and he's already skipped to the end.





2."Free will makes absolutely no logical sense. How do you determine what is "God's will" and what is the sin of man? For example, a child who gets cancer...was it this so-called "God's plan" or from the free will of a parent that raised their child near a nuclear power plant that emitted radiation? Was it God's plan for 9/11 to happen? Or was the free will of the terrorists. Was it God's plan for X person to become a doctor? Or was it person had free will to study to become one?"





The first thing you must understand is God's Plan is different the God's will. When you plan a trip you probably plan to pay for things and have travel to where you want to go. However this is not you will, your will is that everything would be free and you would be transported where you want to go immediately.



Same thing with God he's planned for or around all of the bad things that happen but it's will for them to happen. Does he cause some of the things that appear to be bad from our perspective? I can't say yes or no for sure what I can say is if he's a good God, he knows the end of the world and can predict the result his interaction with us, then what ever he is doing is ultimately working toward the best possible Outcome.



3. The last theme of your questions seems to be around what influence God has over us.



God's influence over us can be compared to our influence of our children.



We can tell our Children what to do, we can bring consequences on them when they don't do it and we can even to some extent move things around in their environment to protect them. However in the end their actions are their choice.



Similarly God can "Lay things on our heart" I believe this is usually done through our conscience, he can have bad events happen to us to encourage us to change and he can even interact with the environment around us. But in the end our choice is our choice.



So the bottom line is God is all-powerful but he gave up his power over us. He can interact with us and he does know the end of the story. However we don't know the end so as far we're concerned the end hasn't happened and we can make choices against God's influence, God just knows what choices we will make and has already taken them into account in his plan.

Answer 13

You're correct in thinking that "God's plan" and free-will cannot coexist. I don't believe that God has a "plan" for us at all.



This is my interpretation of the concept of free will:



It's easy to put the blame (or credit) on God for anything that happens, good or bad, since God makes a very big target, but the fact is that we are the authors of our own experiences, via God's gift of free will and hence, the universal law of attraction.



The universal law of attraction maintains that the vibrations we emit into the world via our conscious or unconscious beliefs, thoughts, emotions, words (written and verbal) and actions, and whether they are positive or negative, love-based or fear-based, lead to the events that we experience in return, in one form or another.



These vibrations occur singly, by individuals and collectively, by societies and cultures.



It is humanity's collective vibrations of fear and hatred that lead to disasters, natural or unnatural, including war and terrorism, disease, pestilence, starvation etc. etc.



God gives free will and does not revoke or interfere with it, so it is a gift with a double-edged sword, so to speak. Once given, it is our responsibility. Not God's.



I don't believe that free will begins at birth or ends at death either. We are given the free will as souls to decide if we want to incarnate and experience a physical life. Likewise, we also choose, at a subconscious or "soul level" our time and manner of death. This is not a conscious choice for the mind, body and ego fight the death of their existence, but the soul knows that it will go on living in the spiritual dimension.

Answer 14

I think both are true



Gos is sovereign and Man chooses freely accourding to the highest inclination of his (fallen) heart



God might mean something for an eventual greatter good, even while men do evil... three examples



In the story of Joseph and his brothers both were true

In the story of the cross both were true

In the story of Job it was God who first asked Satan to ponder Job knowing it Satan would pound on Job



God can accomp;ish a greater good even while men do real evil

even knowing it ahead of time and causing it, while men freely choose at the same time

Answer 15

Thanks For Your Question



Well simply God created Us and gave us free will a free will to do anything for example I could go blow my self in the middle of the times square this is my choice just as it was the parents choice to raise their kid near the nuclear reactor and just as it was the Xperson "chooses" to study to be a doctor so it is a matter of choice...Our Choice



As for the bad things that happen that we have no control or choice over, these things are simply a test from God to see will you still thank him for the rest of the graces he gave you or will you just be thankful when your life is perfect ?!



God says in The Quraan : And certainly, We shall test you with something of fear, hunger, loss of wealth, lives and fruits, but give glad tidings to the patient ones Who, when afflicted with calamity, say: "Truly! To God we belong and truly, to Him we shall return." They are those on whom are the blessings, who are blessed and will be forgiven from their Lord, and they are those who receive His Mercy, and it is they who are the guided-ones.



I hope the picture is clear now :) if you want to talk more about it please feel free to contact me on [e-mail]

Answer 16

Good question. Firstly, the idea of God's plan is generally for Believers, His children. If you are not a believer...you will fit into God's plan, but you miss out on the guiding hand of God in your life.

As a Christian, I can pray and ask God what I should do and get a leading to what God wants for me. One way He does it is by giving me talent in say, music; then opening a way for me to do something musical. So He, in effect, drives my free will. As a Christian, we are also told to turn our free will over to God. As an nonchristian, you are rolling around like a blind person who doesn't know where they are going spiritually. They may serve God's purpose by encouraging someone, but they don't have the leading that I can get from my Father.

Answer 17

Just because God knows what is going to happen does not mean that God MAKES it happen.



That is how we have free will, because God does not Prevent all bad in the world.



Peace!

Answer 18

"Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. "



Why do you waste our time?



If people actually did this we would still be cavemen. It is absolutely crutial, for the betterment of mankind that people expand their knowledge instead of relying on a book centuries old written by other monkeys.

Answer 19

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Answer 20

God allowed it to happen he didn't want it to happen but he knew what was going to happen so he planned around it

Answer 21

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