What does "free will" have to do with how bad things happen to good people? (Book of Job)?

Question

I'm a high school student at a Catholic school, but I tend to have somewhat more.. open.. views than a lot of the people there. A couple weeks ago we were discussing the Book of Job and why bad things happen to good people. I never really came away with anything, though. It seems like God punished Job (killed his family, destroyed his home) just to prove to Satan that Job was faithful to him. Why would a loving God do that? My religion teacher then explained to me that the reason bad things happen to good people is because God gave us the power to choose with free will. But how can a God that is supposed to be all-loving allow things like young babies to die in bombings, or other horrific occurences? My religion teacher said that if God took away our free will, then we wouldn't have a soul or a relationship with him. But do you really think those babies wanted to die? Does anyone want to die? It seems like the only thing that can come out of free will is making a bad choice.

Answer 1

You sure asked a mouthful. I hope you dont mind if I answer a mouthful.



In Job's case, it wasnt because of Job's free will. In most people's case, it is because of their free will.



But as you point out, bad things can still happen to anyone. Nobody on this earth is "good". We live in a fallen world.



All men fall short of being "moral" because of their sins whether they are Christians, some other religion, or other state of non-belief.



The Christian is no better than a non-Christian, but he is infinitely better off.



While non-believers can say that they are "good" this is only because all they have to use as a measuring stick is their peers. (who are also sinful). God makes the perfect measuring stick for sin, because He is perfect.



Without God's Law, and without Jesus' sinless example, we would all be ignorant of our sins.



No one in this world will gain entrance to Heaven because of their own works. It is only through Gods gift of Grace, in the sacrifice of His son.



However, faith without works is dead, and all humans should strive to have high "morals", and follow the example Jesus Christ set for us when He was flesh.





As far as giving us free will?



Skeptics often complain that God set Adam and Eve (and us) up to fail.



However, God had to give Adam and Eve a choice. Without free will to choose, Adam and Eve would have been mere puppets.



True love always requires choice. God wanted Adam and Eve to choose to love and trust Him.



The only way to give this choice would have been to command something that was not allowed



God uses problems in our lives to test us and to help us learn from our mistakes.



“Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it” Heb. 12:11



Sometimes God does not run to our rescue because He’s told us in the Bible what we should be doing about our suffering or affliction. Instead of crying out to God, sometimes we should be studying the Scriptures to find God’s will for our lives.



When we are tempted, we should study 1Corinthians 10:13 to find God’s “way of escape.”



Finally, God does not expect us to live from “miracle to miracle” but from “faith to faith” (Romans 1:17)



When people were following Jesus looking for a miracle, He rebuked them (John 6:26). We should look daily to Jesus, and not look for daily miraculous deliverance from suffering.



WHY DOESN’T GOD JUST DESTROY SATAN ALREADY?



One of the mysteries of the Christian life is why God didn’t just destroy Satan immediately after he sinned. We know that God will one day annihilate Satan once and for all by throwing him into the Lake of Fire where he will be tortured day and night forever (Revelation 20:10), but sometimes we wonder why God has not destroyed Satan already. Perhaps we will never know God’s reasoning in this particular situation, but we do know certain things about Him.



First, we know He is absolutely sovereign over all creation, and this includes Satan, who is “on a very short leash.” Certainly, Satan and his demons wreak havoc in the world, but they are only allowed to go so far and no farther. We also know that God has planned everything from the beginning of time to the end. Nothing can thwart His plans and things are proceeding exactly on schedule. “The LORD of hosts has sworn: ‘As I have planned, so shall it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand’” (Isaiah 14:24).



Second, “we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose” (Romans 8:28). Whatever God has planned for Satan, that plan will be the best one possible, resulting in God’s perfect wrath and justice being satisfied and His perfect righteousness being glorified. Those who love Him and who wait for His plan to be fulfilled will be thrilled to be part of that plan and will praise and glorify Him as they see it unfold.



Third, we know that calling into question God’s plan and its timing is to call into question God Himself, His judgment, His character and His very nature. It is not wise to question His right to do exactly as He pleases. The Psalmist tells us “As for God, His way is perfect” (Psalm 18:30). Whatever plan comes from the mind of the Almighty is the most perfect plan possible. It is true that we can’t expect to understand that mind perfectly, as He reminds us “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts” (Isaiah 55:8-9). Nevertheless, our responsibility to God is to obey Him, to trust Him, and to submit to His will, whether we understand it or not. In the case of His timing for Satan’s demise, it has to be the best possible plan because it is His plan.



God bless you

Answer 2

If you've studied the book, you'll note that God doesn't really provide Job with a satisfying answer. He merely asks another question: "Were you there when I made all this?", as if to say, "You wouldn't understand."



The author of Job didn't have an answer. What he had was a question. His reason for writing was an idea that had become a part of Jewish faith: that those who are faithful to God will be rewarded with long life, property and children, and those who are evil will be punished. The Jews of the time did not have any concept of an afterlife. If there was any compensation, it happened in this life, before death. This was the essential message of Deuteronomy. But the author could see that good people often died young and poor, while many bad people lived to become old and rich.



The author's question was the one we ask: "Why do bad things happen to good people?" The story he tells is of a faultless man who suffers grievously, yet still remains blameless. His friends, faithful to the Deuteronomic tradition, urge him to consider what he might have done to provoke God's punishment. His wife, while she lives, urges him to give up on God. Yet he does not. He waits, patiently, until God himself responds. And the response is weak, indefensible. In effect, the author was writing a protest novel. He had no answer himself, but he firmly stated the question, challenging the conventional wisdom. A similar spirit of protest can be found in Ecclesiastes. The fact that these books made it into the Bible is an acknowledgement that religion thus far did not have all answers.



It is possible that such a spirit led to the development of the concept of an afterlife in Judaism, and certainly in Christianity. If rewards are not distributed in this life, perhaps they come later. Yet it still does not answer the question why innocent people suffer in the first place.



That's where "free will" comes in. The idea is that God does not interefere with people's choices. If evil were rendered impossible, then there would be no need for redemption and not much purpose for religious faith. People would not be able to even think about doing anything but the right thing, or even be aware of making choices. They could neither do evil nor good.



Unfortunately, that means vicitims. Evil usually requires two parties. The belief that God is omniscient and all good then becomes problematic. Is God participating in evil by allowing it to occur? But if he doesn't, then free will goes away and history becomes meaningless.



People have been known to witness acts of great evil without intervening because they realize their efforts will be inadequate. But how do we excuse God? The afterlife argument helps here. God sees the big picture, comprehending more than the physical lives of his creatures, so a "death" is not as important to him. The victim survives in the afterlife. And those who suffered innocently will be healed and rewarded. But in the short term, of course, this is not very comforting.



Bad choices are not the only result of free will. They may be the easiest choices, but they don't have to be chosen. Good choices may actually be bad for the chooser, therefore unattractive, but the point is that good often means reaching out, taking risks, and even opposing evil. Which is worse, suffering as an uninvolved victim, or suffering for having done the right thing?

Answer 3

I am spiritual so I don't put much credibility into anything that could have been manipulatd at the hands of a human being.

I would take the stories as moral guides, not as literal occurances. That's not to say Jesus did not exist-but that Jesus told many stories and parables so it is not unlikely the bible would be full of them as well.

Jesus walked and preached Love and helped people-That's all we need to know is taht he and God were good.

What you take from the other stories is up to you.



I love all cultures, faiths, and religions equally as long as they are good.



I feel we have free will, but have set a life path for ourselves before birth taht we must complete certain tasks. If JOB was true, then he would have known b4 birth his role to play and it would have been fine. I don't believe God would do those things though regardles sof what any book says.



Bad things happen b.c that's the only way we learn and we choose those lessons before birth with God-That's the only way I see that story actually happening. That Job agreed with God that bad things in his life would happen and that his role would be to show faithfulness. This may look to others as though God did it, in his time. And so it was written as such.

God was involved in that contract though.

Everything is to teach us a lesson.

We may have life paths-but it's our choice how we get there and how we react to situations and how we live life.



For example Job may have agreed to have his family pass away early, and decided that could teach him to be faithful no matter what..but that faith is not destined-ONLY the situation is...so he can CHOOSE his reaction. He could get mad at God, or he could remain faithful-only the positive reaction helps the soul progress and teaches and learns to serve a purpose I believe we all have some sort of purpose..





The devil is a symbol for evil.

The devil didn't exist in the original Hebrew text...it's new! and scholars are starting to find out the truth-That hell-sheol- was burried under ground (a translation error) and demons were inner problems.

Job certainly would be battling his negativity.





Hope this helps, you said you had open views so i thought i'd share.



check the site below for more info on the devil and hell. there are more links on it below.





No I believe he agreed to be with a family who had their own life plan, and they chose their way to die-It's all connected and interweaved. Very complex as well. It's hard to grasp while we are here..just like when your in school trying to do a subject you hate- you wonder why you picked it in the first place. Though there are cases like murder where it's not agreed upon and it's someone off their chart(which happens b.c like i said the situation is picked, the reaction is not- so was the murderer doing the wrong action? or was it chosen path ? we cant know yet..not until we die and remember). That's why I don't judge people's souls -that's for God.

But i don't know if Jobs true or just a parable, one of many that they told in those days.

PLEASE remember that when you choose a path and death on the otherside, you really don't mind b.c you know where you are going back too-You WANT to come home to heaven.. It's not scary for them. so it's not a matter of "do they want to die" well no, it's they want to come home...but on earth they forget this.

Answer 4

Your teacher's explaination doesn't remotely explain Job's situation....he wasn't a bad person, but a good, loving, believing person....his entire family is wiped out...then conveinently replaced with a new family (as if that fixes it). That has nothing to do with free will...as Job chose to follow god, yet still received a very harsh sentance.....

Most people blame bad things on free will, satan, and the fallen earth....which is silly when they also believe in an all-powerful, all knowing, all loving god.....this is the same god who created the serpant (satan) and the same god who knew what would happen at every step in history.....so, people then say that we are not allowed to question god....or we don't know god's will....which is silly as well....b/c if you are supposed to believe in this deity, it is only right to check him out first....it is only right to look into his own biography....26,000 children die each day due to lack of food and clean water....that cannot be god's will.....if it is, who in the world could possibly worship said god?

Answer 5

The only explanation for why bad things happen to good people is karma and reincarnation.



The law of karma, which is the law of cause and effect ("of reaping what one sows") makes humans different from one another in their joys and sorrows, in their handicaps, their strengths, their weaknesses, their virtues and vices, their appreciation of beauty, and their comprehension of truth. Transgressions that humans make in life must be corrected in life, if not in the same life, then in a future incarnation. This law demands an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.



This same law applies to groups of people, as they act together. There is karma for families, for tribes, for races, and for nations. For example, when a nation of individuals started a war in a previous life and are reincarnated, a war will be committed upon that nation. Only when such a nation is defeated in humility by a nation with justice and mercy, will the karma of war be lifted from the defeated nation.



Satan is not an evil entity or God's enemy. Satan does God's bidding by tempting soul with their passions and desires in order to weed out those who are not yet ready to return home. So long as the soul is still attracted to physical desires, they will continue to reincarnate back to the physical plane in order to enjoy physical pleasures.

Answer 6

People are like that, im not Christian, however people do believe god does bad things to them because they secretly hope that he will click his fingers and make everything perfect for them, he will fix everything for us and make heaven on earth for us, its not supposed to be like that... He created us and gave us free will, this life is supposed to be a test for us, people forget that and just want god to do everything for him, when they see or experience evil they blame god, even when the devil whispers in their ears, they follow him and blame god, thats obviously satans plan... However the people that do that, do that to their own souls, they are wronging themselves and not harming god... He is forgiving and all he asks is you seek him People ask him for things like God help me out of debt, a reasonable person would say back to them that, why would god help you out of debt did he put you into debt and tell you to spend beyond your means, he is still forgiving though and often will help you however no one sees the signs and nobody pays any attention when he does help... Its part of human nature As far as god not helping when he sees suffering, its is humans that cause the suffering of others, each person has it within them to stand up and stop it or do something good to help others, its not god thats causing the suffering, its people the people that are tested the most if they stay strong they will receive the most in return, the people that just see that and use that as an excuse to not have any faith in god or deny god, then they are wronging themselves... Anyway just my opinion :)

Answer 7

Wasn't God doing the killing... He allowed it to happen to test Job's faith.



All things MUST needs have opposition. Without doubt, there can be no faith.



Without Hate, there can be no Love.



Without pain, how would you know joy?



All Job had to do was deny his faith and it might have stopped.



He CHOSE his destiny by choosing not to deny Christ.

Answer 8

so according to your "teacher," a person who choses to do good with his or her free will still has bad things happen to them...and this is supposed to make sense. Do you feel that it was sufficiently explained? One example in a million....I'd blow that joint.