Question:
What is the meaning of Christ’s statement to “the thief on the cross”?
D.O.J
2009-06-30 18:13:11 UTC
Some cite this account, found in Luke 23:39-43, as validation for the doctrines of “deathbed repentance” and “the saved go to heaven.” But does it really prove that? The answer is NO.

The verse that is so commonly used to support these doctrines is verse 43, which states, “And Jesus said to him, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Christ could not have literally meant “today,” because He Himself would not be resurrected until three days and three nights after burial (Matt. 12:40). Obviously, He had not, at that point, even died. Since Christ and God the Father are of the same mind (John 10:30), and God “cannot lie” (Titus 1:2), Christ was not telling the thief that he would be with Him “in heaven” that day. He did not even mean it in the general sense of “here and now” (i.e., in today’s world). He had stated, in John 3:13, “No one has ascended to heaven…”

Consider the following: King David was “a man after God’s own heart” (I Sam. 13:14; Acts 13:22). Abraham was God’s friend (II Chron. 20:7) and “father of the faithful” (Gal. 3:7-9). Moses was the meekest man who had ever lived (Num. 12:3) and spoke with God personally (Ex. 33:11). If none of these great servants of God had ascended to heaven, then how is it possible that a thief, although repentant at the end of his life, could have a guaranteed reward in heaven?

The meaning of the Luke 23 account is distorted because of a simple error in translation. The comma following Christ’s lead-in statement, “Assuredly, I say to you…” was misplaced, thereby changing the entire meaning of His words. The original Greek, in which the New Testament was written, did not utilize certain punctuation, such as commas and quotation marks. These were later added by translators, according to their own discretion. The correct rendering is “Assuredly, I say to you today [in other words, “I tell you right now”], you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Another scripture commonly used to promote the doctrine of “deathbed repentance” is “The Parable of the Laborers” (Matt. 20:1-16). Does this scripture prove that doctrine’s validity? No. Here is why. Although the men who came in at “the eleventh hour” had only worked for an hour, compared to the others, who had “borne the burden and the heat of the day” (vs. 12), they had still worked. The owner of the vineyard did not pay them for simply “standing around and doing nothing.” Likewise, God is not going to grant salvation to someone who—lying on his “deathbed” at the end of a sin-filled life in which was displayed a total disregard for God’s laws—simply declares some form of repentance for which no “fruits” can possibly be seen (Matt. 7:20; Matt. 3:8).

Scripture does not directly state which of the three resurrections the thief will be a part of. Since he obviously had not been baptized and given God’s Holy Spirit, we can conclude that he will not be among those raised in the First Resurrection, to take place at Christ’s Return (I Thes. 4:16). And, since Christ did not condemn him, we know that he will not be raised in the Third Resurrection, which will be for those who will not repent. They will be destroyed (Rev. 20:6, 14-15). The thief will receive his first opportunity for salvation in the Second Resurrection, to take place after the millennium (Rev. 20:5). At that time, the world will truly be “paradise,” since Satan will have been bound and cast away, never to be able to again deceive mankind (Rev. 20:1-3).
Fifteen answers:
Sick Puppy
2009-06-30 18:25:38 UTC
Jesus lived completely under the old law. The thieves died under the Old Law. Therefore, baptism was not required of them. They like the others of the Old Testament would be saved under the Old Law. However, at the resurrection of Jesus, the New Law came into being as is read in Acts. More specifically, Acts 2:37,38
grammyandpopps
2009-06-30 19:37:12 UTC
You are correct about the misplacement of the quotations. He did mean it as "I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise" It couldnt mean on that very day because the Bible said that no humans would go to heaven before Jesus did.

(Heb. 10:12, 19, 20; 1 Cor. 15:20, 23)

And it wasnt until Pentecost of 33 C.E. which was 10 days after Jesus ascended to heaven that the the holy spirit was poured out upon those disciples and they became 'born again' which was required before they could go to heaven. (John 3:3, 5; Acts 1:3-9; 2:1-4)

By then the 'evil doer' was dead already about a month

so he would not be one who would go the heaven, just as John the baptist and many other who died before Jesus. (Matt. 11:11)

They are in Sheol; Hades, (Hebrew and Greek) which means the grave and awaiting their resurrection. According to (Ecc. 9: 5,6 and 10) the dead are not conscience. They will be resurrected upon the earth.
shena
2016-05-27 04:44:11 UTC
Hello. Well I don't know if I can say what he was REALLY saying, I'm not Jesus. But I'll give it a shot. You may relate this phrase to the title of a "born again christian". The belief being that they now see the kingdom of God because they have been saved by Jesus and therefore, "born again". Rebirth can mean almost anything, metaphorically, such as rejuvenation or simply a change in thought. The gist of the saying is that, until a man changes his thoughts to the ways of God and light, he will not see the final kingdom. Thank you and Good bye. P.S- Anything stated in the above message is my own opinion and is not presented as fact. You are free to disagree and I apologize for any offense I may have inadvertently caused, however I assure you that it was not my intention nor would I choose to push any of my beliefs upon the reader. Thank you and Good bye.
Broken Alabaster Flask
2009-07-02 09:01:51 UTC
After the Lord's death and before His resurrection, He was in the heart of the earth for three days ( Matt 12:40). This place is called Hades, which is made up of two parts. One side called Abraham's bosom or Paradise and the other is a place of torment. There is a chasm fixed betwixt these two places separating them, yet as seen in the account of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16, there is the possibility of some kind of verbal communication between the dead in this Holding place called Hades. The bible records the conversation between the rich man and Abraham.



When the Lord Jesus told the thief on the Cross that he would be with Him in Paradise, He meant what He said. The problem is that most of us think that Paradise ( 2 Cor 12:4) and the third Heaven ( 2 Cor 12:2) are one and the same place. But the bible makes a clear distinction between the two places.



Paradise is Abraham's bosom ( Luke 16:23) and the pleasant part of Hades which is in the heart of the earth. It was this Paradise that Paul was taken to and where he heard things that he was not allowed to speak of ( 2 Cor 12:4).



So the thief on the cross was not taken to heaven, but to the holding place for the righteous dead, Paradise, or Abraham's bosom. In the old testament, this holding place was called Sheol.



It would be unscriptural to say that Christ took the thief to heaven and after dropping him off, then went into the heart of the earth to carry out what He needed to do there, which included going to the evil spirits locked up in Tartarus ( 2 Pet 2:4) and declaring to them of the victories of God ( Col 2:15).



In the Bible there are three places that are called Paradise. One was Eden, the other is Abraham's bosom ( Luke 23:43) and the third is the New Jerusalem ( Rev 2:7). Heaven was never called Paradise.



Paul, in relaying of his experience of being taken away to Paradise and also of being take away to the third Heaven, made a distinction between the two places. The Lord Jesus also held to this distinction when He told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in Paradise. The Lord specifically did not say Heaven because, according to John 3:13.. No man has ascended into heaven but the Lord Himself. Not David, Not Abraham. All these ones are still awaiting the resurrection from the dead at the Lord's coming.



The real problem brother is that we need to be clear about the distinction between Paradise and the third Heaven and then this whole misaimed and leavened teaching of "going to heaven" will be cleared up. We also need to appreciate that the bible does indeed end with us in the New Jerusalem on the New Earth, and not in individual mansions in heaven. This Apostate Leavened teaching of the Cathlolic Church needs to be purged out from us in a deep way.



Grace be with your spirit.



IN Christ

sandy
enteetee_ex
2009-06-30 18:37:20 UTC
Deathbed repentances aren't real. God knows what is in a man's heart. Repentance is not an insurance policy so you can party it up until the last minute and then say a perfunctory "Well, sorry about that, pal, you know how it is..." It is a genuine change of heart. Jesus knew what was in that thief's heart and saw what was real repentance.

He also knows when you're milking it.

Don't be deceived. God is not mocked.
mesquiteskeetr
2009-06-30 18:24:38 UTC
Remember, Jesus was born, lived and died a Jew. Also remember there could be no forgiveness of sin without the blood of Jesus to cleanse the sin. Also remember the law of Moses was nailed to the cross of Jesus as mentioned in Colossians 2 and other places. Whatever was meant by the statement Jesus made that today they would be together in paradise has nothing to do with us today because Jesus was still a Jew and spoke as a Jew.



Also, remember this, Jesus never saw a Christian while He walked on the earth because without shedding His blood, there were no Christians. The first Christians became just that on the first Pentecost after the death of Jesus. The first Christian sermon is partially recorded in Acts 2:.



Have a great evening and God bless.....
papaalw
2009-06-30 18:21:46 UTC
It is best to actually read the scripture and not rely on what someone else tells you.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

As you can see it says nothing about a third resurrection here or a second chance either..
2009-06-30 18:46:39 UTC
There were "fruits" to be seen in the thief on the cross. Think of when Paul says "Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church" - Col 1:24



The thief was suffering before his confession, he suffered after as well. This could also be a reminder that even after we turn to christ there is still suffering in our lives. Paul goes on to explain that our suffering can be joined with christs cross, and something as seemingly hopeless as dying in pain can be seen through faith and experienced as a holy work, or a fruit if you prefer.
SeekerOfKnowledge
2009-06-30 18:22:05 UTC
It is never too late to accept salvation through God. The only way that an "eleventh hour conversion" would not save the person is if he or she does not actually believe what they are saying, but they just figure they will hedge their bets in case the afterlife is real. The only thing necessary for a person to be accepted into Heaven is the belief that God and Jesus can bring them there and a desire to live righteously through whatever is left of their earthly life.
Pastor Art (((SFECU)))
2009-06-30 18:23:09 UTC
I've never seen so much horrible theology in such a small space.



Jesus said: "Today you will be with me in paradise".



The paradise Jesus was talking about was the same paradise which the beggar Lazarus was in, along with Father Abraham, which Jesus told us about in Luke 16:19-31.



It is interesting how you never quoted Luke 16 in your reply.



Jesus died that day, before the sun went down, and so did that thief. For the thief death came within ten minutes of when the Roman soldiers broke their legs.



As soon as they each died, they were in Paradise.



I'm curious where you came up all that mumbo jumbo and ignored the obvious.
Very much in love with God.
2009-06-30 18:16:40 UTC
. He did mean today. paradise was Abraham's bosom, where people went as believers prior to the ascension. Christ is first begotten of the dead, which means the first human to enter Heaven. After His arrival in Heaven, the Old Testament people were ushered into Heaven, unlike today, when a person dies it is "Apart from the body, face to face with the Lord." Christ was seen at the right hand of the Father. Heaven is the presence of God. Christ had the keys to hell and of death, and that also was a portion of the journey of His spirit during the three days before physical resurrection. Paul stated he went to the third Heaven, and that was before he came back to life. During the stoning at Lystra. Paul said he spoke with the tongues of men and of angels. NO doubt he acquired this during his time in the third heaven.
2009-06-30 18:31:45 UTC
Your theology is wrong



A criminal on a cross finds salvation.



Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, "If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us." But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, "Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong." Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom." And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."



a. One of the criminals joined in mocking Jesus. After all, if Jesus were the Messiah, He should save those who are being crucified with Him! But the other criminal saw things differently.



i. He respected God (Do you not even fear God).



ii. He knew his own sin (under the same condemnation...we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds).



iii. He knew Jesus (this Man has done nothing wrong).



iv. He called out to Jesus (he said to Jesus).



v. He called out to Jesus as Lord (he said to Jesus, "Lord...").



vi. He believed Jesus was who Jesus said He was (remember me when You come into Your kingdom).



vii. He believed the promise of everlasting life from Jesus.



b. Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise: With these words, Jesus wanted to give this man assurance. Where is Paradise? It is in heaven, and that man went to heaven to be with Jesus, but it is the presence of Jesus (with Me) that makes it Paradise.



i. Here is something truly remarkable: a deathbed conversion. This is the only one in the Bible! There is one deathbed conversion in the Bible, so that no one would despair; but only one, so that no one would presume.



ii. You might trust in Jesus just before you die; but that is like trusting that you will be close enough to a rock to save yourself as you approach the edge of Niagara Falls!



iii. Significantly, this thief who trusted in Jesus at the last moment goes to the same heaven anyone else does. Is this fair? In a sense, no; but it gives glory to the grace of God, not to human merit in salvation. In heaven, we will all be filled to the full with joy and reward; but the degree of our faithfulness now determines how big our container for joy and reward will be in heaven, though all will be filled to the fullest they can hold.



c. This assurance was so important to Jesus that it cost Him something; "Since speech occurs during exhalation, these short, terse utterances must have been particularly difficult and painful." (Edwards)



d. We see Jesus functioning as prophet, priest and king, even at His death.



i. He was a Prophet to the Daughters of Jerusalem.



ii. He was a Priest when He forgave those who nailed Him to the cross.



iii. He was a King when He authoritatively assured the penitent criminal salvation and entrance into the Kingdom.
Homer Jones
2009-06-30 18:22:19 UTC
so, whats you point ? no matter where you put the comma Jesus still said the thief will be with Him in heaven , and what you have said does not change that fact.
elizabeth
2009-06-30 18:21:58 UTC
He went to heaven not "you know where" Its not true!Sinse the thief accepted Jesus in his heart,he went to heaven too!
2009-06-30 18:20:11 UTC
The story of the crucifixion needs to be investigated before we can take any of your arguments seriously!



The whole crucifixion story is very hard to prove on many hard counts!



John 20:27 (KJV) Then saith he* (*Jesus) to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and THRUST IT INTO MY SIDE: and be not faithless, but believing* (*IN HIS “RESURRECTED BODY” Jesus was full of gapping holes the size of a finger in his hands and of a whole fist in his right side!)



He was not nailed at his wrists as some preachers claim, but in his HANDS! The Roman soldier left a BIG GAPPING HOLE in the right side of his body for Saint Thomas to “THRUST HIS HAND INSIDE” so he can believe!



The NT Bible writers and editors were delighted to explain that Jesus Christ’s flesh was beaten to a pulp thoroughly tenderized and heavily marinated in Roman soldiers’ spit as the “spotless Lamb of God taking away the sins of the world” while hanging totally naked nailed to a Holy Cross! The Gospel writers found PLENTY of “prophecies” in the OT describing Jesus.



Job 17:6 (NIV) God has made me a byword to everyone, A MAN IN WHOSE FACE PEOPLE SPIT.



Matthew 26:67 (NIV) Then they SPIT IN HIS FACE and struck him with their fists. Others slapped him.

Matthew 27:30 (NIV) They SPIT ON HIM, and took the staff and struck him on the head again and again.

Mark 14:65 (NIV) Then some began to SPIT AT HIM; they blindfolded him, struck him with their fists, and said, "Prophesy!" And the guards took him and beat him.

Mark 15:19a (NIV) Again and again they struck him on the head with a staff and SPIT ON HIM.



There is no historical record whatsoever that the Roman soldiers ever dressed any of their victim’s genital area in a white diaper before nailing them to any cross no matter how holy! In fact, there is no record that the Romans crucified anybody in Jerusalem outside of the Bible record, either. The Romans were much better known for IMPALING their victims driving a thick pole into their victim’s rectum and forcing them to stand on it until the pole would eventually pierce the heart or lungs killing them by their own body weight! Jesus hardly suffered a sissy man’s death placidly hanging down from his 2 nailed hands that can’t possibly hold anybody’s weight to a cross! Christians are brainwashed to believe that crucifixion is about the most tormenting death ever invented! Not so! Impalement would have been a real pain in Jesus anal cavity, too! God the Son Jesus Christ was able to conduct a long heated conversation with his peers on the other crosses, and with some of the guests at the crucifixion site, and with the Roman soldiers that crucified him! Everybody at the crucifixion site heard them talk and somebody even recorded the conversations for the benefit of the Christian Gospel writers that came 40-100+ years later! The crucifixion was not really that painful at all for Jesus! I really want my money back!



If Jesus would have had a pole penetrating his anal cavity he would be crying for God like a charm, with his eyes popping out of their orbit, and everything! 500 Years ago the Protestants wised up and removed the hanging corpse of Jesus Christ off the Holy Cross to avoid silly questions. Only the Catholics still display a dead body nailed to a cross.



JESUS WAS NOT CARRYING HIS OWN CROSS! God the Son Jesus Christ was teaching that EVERYBODY SHOULD CARRY THEIR OWN CROSS AND FOLLOW HIM, but on his way to the crucifixion site Jesus was NOT CARRYING HIS OWN CROSS AT ALL, Simon did…! Simon was commissioned by the Jews to carry Jesus’ Holy Cross! All the religious images that you see of Jesus carrying his cross to Golgotha are plain picture taking opportunities to work on the sensible Christian religious gullibility!



Matthew 27:32 (NIV) As they were going out* (*to Golgotha), they met a man from Cyrene, named Simon, and they forced him to carry the cross* (*you meet people in the strangest places!).



Simon helped Jesus a lot. In spite of Jesus beat up shape and having been covered in Roman soldiers’ spit, he still managed to have an incredible last chance to preach a long sermon to the DAUGHTERS OF JERUSALEM, a fan group of rich ladies who were sustaining him in his lonely nights…



Luke 23:28 (NIV) Jesus turned and said to them, “DAUGHTERS OF JERUSALEM, do not weep for me; WEEP FOR YOURSELVES AND FOR YOUR CHILDREN.



… So much for the announced “REDEMPTION OF JERUSALEM,” at the birth of Jesus Christ… Christians still believe all kinds of stories about a 2nd coming, too!



Luke 2:38 (NIV) Coming up to them at that very moment* (*at the clipping of the foreskin of Jesus’ penis), SHE* (*a “daughter of Jerusalem”) gave thanks to God and spoke about the child to ALL WHO WERE LOOKING FORWARD TO THE REDEMPTION OF JERUSALEM.



Shortly after Jesus alleged crucifixion, Jerusalem was destroyed and leveled to the ground, and all Jews taken into slavery! The redemption of Jerusalem never took place…!!! But Christians say that it will really happen sometime in the future at a second coming! The Fact that the Jews managed to return back to Palestine today is very inspiring. It gives Christianity hope of survival for years to come. Bush invasion of Iraq really upset a lot of prophecies, so the much expected “Confederacy of the North” to invade Israel will have to wait for a more realistic scenario. As far as “end times” prophecies go the Preachers know how to fit a square peg into a round hole for quite some time spiritually speaking, of course. They are discovering plenty of new prophecies that are pointing to the soon return of Jesus Christ to Earth. The 2 most outstanding prophecies that are totally rejected by the Christians in general in spite of their clarity are the full unconditional restoration of Sodom the way it was before its destruction, and the slaughter of children in the wrong Churches! Christians are still looking up!


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
Loading...