For Jews only please, can a non-Jew be obedient to the LORD without converting to Judaism?

Question

I am told there is no need for a non Jew to convert to Judaism, since a non-Jew may become “Children of Noah” and thus obedient to the LORD, following these seven rules:

1. Do not worship idols. (Genesis 3:5)
2. Do not commit blasphemy. (Genesis 3:1)
3. Do not steal. (Genesis 3:6)
4. Do not murder. (Genesis 4:8)
5. Do not commit sexual immorality. (Genesis 6:1-4)
6. Establish courts of justice. (Genesis 6:5-7)
7. Do not eat the flesh of a living animal. (Genesis 9:3-4)

There is no mention of the Sabbath here.

However this does not follow elsewhere in the TANAKH, for in Isaiah 56:1-8, The LORD says that the foreigner must observe the Sabbath and “hold fast to my Covenant”, which seems to mean the whole covenant, which is much more than the 7 items above.

So the question is, can a non-Jew be saved without converting to Judaism and obeying the entire covenant? This question is for Jews only, leaving aside the whole question of Jesus as the Messiah, please.

Answer 1

Just to point out, a non-Jew cannot keep Shabbos, which is why it isn't listed in the seven Noahide laws.



You also ask 'can a non-Jew be saved'. Saved from what? Judaism doesn't believe anyone needs saving from anything (except that my wife says I need to be saved from eating donuts). ;-)



Do you mean can a non-Jew ALSO live a just and fulfilling life? Yup, keep the Noahide laws.



As for your Isaiah question, the verses are talking to Israel. You are focusing on verses 6-7, you ask a good question. Reading it from its original Hebrew makes it more problematic, since it doesn't use the word 'ger', although Me'am Loez explains that it does mean a convert. It seems to mean a non-Jew who comes close to G-d.



Hmmm. I'll have to look more into this. But meanwhile, I'll give you word for word what the Me'am Loez says on the verses:



And those whose conversion to Judaism is with the sincere intent of serving G-d and not for any ulterior motives, attested to by their observance of the Sabbath and the covenant, shown by their "coming close to G-d" while the Jewish people are still downtrodden, those are the proselytes who G-d will bring to His temple, his "house of prayer for all peoples", and grant them the joy of seeing their offerings accepted. But more than their material offerings are acceptable to G-d, the offering and sacrifices of their HEARTS and SOULS shall be desirable to him.







A beautiful explanation, but I still wonder why the words used are 'Ben Nechar' (son of a non-Jew) as opposed to 'Ger' (proselyte). I'll look it up and get back to you.





Edit: it appears that Isaiah refers to proselytes as 'Ben nechar' throughout Isaiah (see 56:3).







Edit after Shabbos: Ok, I looked more in depth over shabbos, and here's what I've got. (I also asked a big Rabbi in the community of Montreal who helped me out).



Isaiah 62:2 proves that when he speaks about a non-Jew, he uses the term 'goyim' - nations. If he was talking about a Noahite, he would have used that term.



If so, why didn't he use the term 'ger'?



To emphasize that it was someone who was formerly a non-Jew now being close to G-d and keeping Shabbos, which works out very well in the context of the verse.



To explain: the term used in Chapter 56 is 'Ben Hanechar HANILVEH EL HASHEM' which is always with it. That means "a non-Jew (lit: son of a non-Jew) who became close to G-d."



Without the 'hanilveh el hashem' (became close to G-d) part, it would mean a Noahide.



Hope that helped.

Answer 2

Judaism is a religion which anyone can convert to....... The conversion rate to Judaism is much higher than people think. I heard it is actually higher than Christianity's conversion rate, although I'm not sure about that, I just heard something like that a while ago... I think the 7 Noahide laws are what God expects all gentiles to live by. In Judaism they follow many more laws. Edit Jews come in all colours and ethnicity's. Are Ethiopian Jews the same race as European Jews???!!! No not all..

Answer 3

Yes. The Isaiah quote is regarding non-Jews who convert to Judaism. It is for that reason that they hold fast to the entire covenant. However, there was a covenant that G-d made with Noah and it has fewer requirements. If you keep the Noahide Covenant then you are keeping roughly 25% of the non-sacrificial requirements of the Torah and can count on a portion of the world to come, which is what you ask about when you asked about "be saved". That is one of the three options you may take.

Answer 4

Judaism absolutely states that any human who adheres to the Noahide laws is beloved of the divine. We don't do 'saved' - there's nothing to be saved from since we don't have the concept of 'original sin' which Christians are concerned with. Our relationship with G-d and our fellow human being is what matters to us and we are very clear that being a Jew is just a particular job, not 'the right way'.



I think the Isaiah piece is talking about people who have chosen to throw in their lot with the Jews. Verse 3: "Let not the foreigner say, Who has attached himself to the LORD" i.e. those who have chosen to become part of the Jewish people; verse 4 talks about "the eunuchs who keep My sabbaths, Who have chosen what I desire And hold fast to My covenant" i.e. again, converts; verse 6, "the foreigners Who attach themselves to the Lord......And who hold fast to my covenant" - again, converts.



This is the issue - if you choose to actually BE Jewish, then you are held to the laws that govern the Jewish covenant. If you're not a Jew, you are asked merely to stick with the Noahide laws.

Answer 5

Yes. You're getting the Brits (covenants) mixed up. The other source of your confusion is a re-jiggered definition of salvation.



By "saved" let's translate that into Jewish worldview and say salvation is wholeness: physical, emotional, mental and spiritual.(not just spiritual - and not just 'grace'). In Judaism wholeness occurs once we choose good over forces that distort the Oneness of G-d and people. It is partly merited (we take the action) and partly bestowed (the benefit is much more than our actions).



Now for the Real Deal:



Rav Moshe Chaim Luzzatto (ref below) says we do a little bit of good, and G-d does a lot. We must merit salvation or wholeness, and then G-d's mercy kicks in to complete whatever was missing. We must show that we are willing, and G-d will provide the power to finish. (contrary to the Christians contention on this answer that one must keep 'all' the Law. We are never perfect until G-d makes us perfect)



Yeshayahu (Isaiah) 56:1-8 in context, starts back in Yeshayahu 54 & refers to the time after Mashiach come - neither the Noahide Covenant nor the Torah Covenant. All of that is describing a New Earth, which is a time and covenant of Holiness to come of the highest sort.



Torah notes a number of covenants "Britot" with G-d which lead to G-d and wholeness or salvation:



After Adam lost their initial position of Keepers of the Garden, and co-creators of the Earth, the first Brit or Covenant G-d makes with humanity is through:



1. Noah to never destroy the earth again by water. The sign is the rainbow, and the commandments are the 7 you cite. Seven as the number of evil kings replaced by 7 good kings in Canaan. This covenant is for all the inhabitants of the Earth, including the Earth itself and Jews. Jews are bound by these as well as Righteous Gentiles. Follow these and you will be 'saved' or made whole and have a place in Olam Haba, the World to Come.



2. The second is "Brit Milah," or Circumcision, that G-d made with Abraham. You don't have to do this one as a Righteous Gentile, but it's not a problem if you do. It is a covenant to wrestle with our evil inclination, and many non-Jews do this as well. Follow these and you will be 'saved' and have a place in Olam Haba.



3. The next "Brit" is the "Brit HaTorah," the Covenant of the Torah negotiated by the Jewish People with G-d, saying "We will do what you command", even without knowing what we were getting into (faith). You don't have to obey these 613 which include Shabbat either. We do since we said we would.



During the exile, all the major prophets - Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isiah and others promise we will not be forsaken and this covenant will last.



4. The final Covenant which you notice they all overlap each other and the next one does not negate the previous one, will be through Mashiach, per Yeshayahu and others. It has nothing to do with virgin births or human sacrifice for remission of sin or any of that. See other answers for qualifications of Mashiach.



All the commandments in all covenants are tools, little spoons to move veritable mountains, for us to choose G-d and good and overcome destruction. We start with our little spoon, and G-d moves the mountain. All of our spoons are little compared to G-d, so pick your covenant that is right for your soul.



In summary, while the covenant of Noah doesn't include Shabbat or Circumcision, neither are forbidden according to most Rabbis, except certain Orthodox. Just as pious Chassids who love HaShem go further than what is required. Non-Jews can do that too. Noahide is the minimum.



Another example: Some Hareidi Orthodox will interpret Rambam's statement in Mishan Torah that women do not receive a reward to study Torah to mean women are prohibited from study of Torah. This is not the interpretation of most communities, and women are not prohibited from learning Torah. The same applies to non-Jews who want to do more.

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Addition: As I was reading this morning from Rav Kook about the Inner Light of Israel, here is what he had to say about redemption (salvation): Redemption an Ongoing Process:



The redemption continues. The redemption from Egypt and the complete redemption of the future are one unending action: the action of the strong hand and outstretched arm, which began in Egypt and works though all eventualities. Moses and Elijah are redeemers in a single redemption; the beginner and the ender, the opener and closer together fill the unit. The spirit of Israel hears the sound of the movements, the redemptive actions, brought about through all eventualities until the sprouting of redemption will be complete, in all its plentitude and goodness.

XXVIII - pg. 139



Every bit of righteousness helps bring this about. This is why when asked who should study Kabbalah, Rav Kook, the first Chief Rabbi of Israel, said "anyone who wants to".

Answer 6

First of all, absolutely - non jews can have a relationship with god, and go to heaven, just by following the noachide laws (I've heard that it's actually 7 categories of laws, so it ends up being a bit more than 7, but it's the same basic idea, I think).



And all people ARE children of Noach - you don't have to "become" one.



In addition, non jews can, on a voluntary basis, do almost all of the rest of the commandments. The Sabbath happens to be one of the exceptions, which non-jews are not supposed to follow.



As far as the verses in Isiah, I just looked it up in the original hebrew, and I believe that the beginning of those verses are talking about converts.

Answer 7

If you are in the household of a Jewish person during shabbat, you are obligated to observe shabbat as well.



The Noahide Laws are a covenant, as well, in that they are the "contract" for righteousness between the gentile human being and the Creator.



The claims of the Jesus sacrifice being necessary for being saved are completely unsubstantiated in the Tanakh. The G-d of Creation, who loves all humanity and wants them to be righteous, gave them the laws to follow that would provide a path to righteousness. It is not required that a person be completely faultless or sinless, but to repent when they have made errors (sins) and do better. (That's called spiritual growth, of course.)



Thanks for the question! I hope my response was helpful.

Answer 8

"...can a non-Jew be saved..."

What does that mean? Your question makes no sense in Judaism. The messiah will be our leader when we have worked together in partnership with God to bring about the messianic era -- universal peace on EARTH for ALL mankind. Exactly what does "saved" have to do with UNIVERSAL peace on earth?



Messianic Era (Chabad Lubavitch)

In the Messianic Era, the Divine plan for the world will be fully realized. There will be universal peace, prosperity, goodness and knowledge of God. The coming Moshiach will not cause a break with the past and the beginning of something entirely new. On the contrary, it is the culmination and crowning stroke of all our efforts toward a world of peace and consummate holiness.

Moshiach will free the Jewish People from all servitude to foreign nations, rebuild the Holy Temple in Jerusalem and gather all the Jews of the entire world to Israel. Peace and prosperity will be universal and all the nations of the world will serve the one God. Moshiach will reveal Godliness in every facet of the Creation. He will elevate each of us from our respective limitations and open our eyes to the Godliness that is the inner reality of our life.

We will still have our family, friends and possessions. However, they will be more wholesome and meaningful because we will see their true value-their Divine purpose.

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From "The Book of Words," by Lawrence Kushner

Tradition wisely warns against "forcing the hand of the Messiah." On the other hand, imagining how much better things could be than they are now only guarantees despair.

Sometimes "the best" is the enemy of "the good." If you allow yourself to measure existence against a perfect standard, life will certainly be miserable. Things, by definition, could always be better than they are now. On the other hand, succumbing to the way things are now is to cease dreaming. The balance, perhaps, is to accept the way things are because, like it or not, for better or for worse, that is literally the only way things are. They, of course, can be different, but only later. To worry about "later" is to miss "now." Remember, one of us may be the Messiah. That possibility shouldn't, but nevertheless does, affect how we treat one another.



http://www.aish.com/sp/ph/69742282.html

In Kabbalah, it is not only God who judges us. As we bid farewell to the world, we are shown a film that contains scenes of our entire lives. We are witnesses to every moment of our days on Earth as they pass before us with incredible rapidity. And as we watch our own story unfold, there are times when we cringe with embarrassment; others when we smile with glee. Our past moral lapses cause us to shudder in pain; our victories over our evil inclinations provide us with a keen sense of spiritual triumph. It is then that we realize in retrospect that we alone are the greatest judges of our own lives. What happens after death is that we gain the wisdom to evaluate our own life by the standards of Heaven -- because we have finally glimpsed an eternal perspective.

What is Hell? Remember when you were in eighth grade and something utterly embarrassing happened? The shame you felt and how you just wanted the ground to open up so you could disappear. That is Hell. It is the deepest realization that our life (or part of it) has been squandered, which creates a deep regret and shame in our soul.

The good news is that God -- in His infinite kindness – established this as a cleansing process, where after one year (or less), all the negativity has been forever washed away.



When will the messiah arrive?

When we master the violence that fills our world.

When we look upon others as we would have them look upon us.

When we grant to every person the rights we claim for ourselves.

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Answer 9

Why would the Torah give you a list of seven commandments to keep if you really have to keep all of them?



We do tell non-Jews that you will be perfectly fine if you do not convert to Judaism proviso you abide to the seven commandments of non-Jews. You must be misunderstanding what you read in Navi. I will have to ask a Rabbi to look it up. I can tell you that it is best not to go trying to interpret Navi on your own or with a non-Jew. You have to ask a Rabbi who has a chain of information passed down from father to son, Rabbi to student- these are the people who it was given to. I do know that it is completely assur (forbidden) for a non-Jew to keep Shabbos (the sabbath).



The truth is, we tell non-jews not to convert because it will most likely do more harm than good- it is a risk. However, while you can still merit Olam Haba (where ever the good people go after death) everyone says it is better to be a Jew.



To the person below me- Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzato (who wrote Derech Hashem (The Way of God) says that worthy non-Jews can receive life in the world to come but it is compared to the clothes someone wears to the person himself with regards to the distinction between the reward for a Jew and that of a non-Jew. Please just read the sefer (book) before you accuse me of lies and proceed to give me a low rating.

Answer 10

Yes. Follow those laws and you are good to go and will get rewarded.



As for the court of justice, it means that your nation should have a court of justice.

Answer 11

Yes, absolutely non Jews can :)



Judaism says that all humans are equally G-d's children. What counts is what you DO, and not what you BELIEVE. If you behave with integrity and compassion and courage, that is what matters!



The Noahide Laws are universal. We refer also to the 'Rainbow Covenant' that G-d made with Noah, and this covers ALL humans.



http://www.noahide.org/





You'll also sometimes hear Jews referring to 'Righteous Gentiles'. These are non Jews who behave with the utmost courage and compassion. For example, the Holocaust Memorial in Jerusalem, Yad Vashem, specifically honours Righteous Gentiles.



I believe - would Rabbi Zvi or Allonyoav please correct me if I'm wrong? - that in the Talmud it states that a Gentile who studies Torah sincerely is as 'righteous' as the most dedicated Jewish scholar.



So - don't worry!:)

Answer 12

yes the Noachidal laws

Answer 13

why would we be descendants of Noah, as Noah still would be a descendant of Adam and Eve

Answer 14

God didn't stop at Noah and neither should you. He went on to Moses and David and Jesus and so should you.

Answer 15

How can you establish a court of justice ?

Answer 16

Why do you want to be obedient to the Abrahamic God? I mean, I wouldn't. Because he scares me.

Answer 17

Actually, I am spiritually Jewish. And no I don't need to convert to Judaism. I am justified already and there's no need. I am Abraham's seed.



Remember what Paul said. There are some Jews who actually are not Jews. And there are some who are considered Non Jews, but they are Jews. Now who are Jews? God's people. Some Jews who believe they're God's people are not.