Question:
Does Buddhism work without the doctrine of karmically-influenced rebirth?
?
2012-12-22 15:29:52 UTC
If we throw out the connection between karma and rebirth, and keep the Buddha's insistence on the pervasiveness of suffering and the importance of freedom from suffering, then it seems like there would be two options: follow the Buddha's noble eight-fold path, or commit suicide. Death would end all future suffering, and there would be no karmic consequences of suicide in future lives to restrain someone from taking that route.

Does Buddhism without karma and rebirth make suicide seem too attractive?
Seven answers:
anonymous
2012-12-23 05:38:22 UTC
There is the simple fact of instinct: the instinct to survive is tremendously strong. At least in the majority of people.

That's why, when someone is told they have terminal cancer and will take at least 6 months to slowly and painfully die, they don't step in front of a train. They fight to survive, and many of those "6 month prognosis" people will fight death and hang on for 12 months, despite the suffering.



No .. people are not about to go out and readily willingly kill themselves. Suicidal ideation is almost only that .. ideas. Not action.



Despite what some people here are saying, there are some qualified teachers of Buddhism who teach karma and rebirth as metaphors.

As for Buddha and the 1st Noble Truth: "Suffering occurs". That actually is not pessimistic. It is only in our Western culture, where we are supposed to be in denial about unpleasant realities, that it SOUNDS pessimistic. Because we have no coping skills for sorrow or suffering, we brush it aside as quickly as we can and refuse to look at it. We think that if we can just keep busy enough, just pleasure ourselves enough, just distract ourselves enough .. then we will avoid our inner discontent. It doesn't work like that, and all the frantic screw-ups of the rich and famous, including their inability to hold onto relationships and the drug overdoses, should be a clear indication of just how our frantic drive to run from reality actually doesn't work.



In Buddhism, the world "suffering", is perhaps an unfortunate translation. Because what is referred to is everything from that mild discontent that we all experience, through boredom, through unstable emotions (happy one minute, annoyed the next), through loss (no matter what we have, nothing is permanent) .. through to what we think of when we think of the word "suffering" (physical or psychological agony).



And the thing is this ... WE cause our own suffering. And we don't have to. And this is what the Four Noble Truths are about.



What you are proposing is like saying: "Got a headache because you keep on hitting your head on the wall? Why not just blow your brains out?" While Buddhism says simply "stop hitting your head on the wall".

There is nothing negative about pointing out that you are hitting your head on the wall and this gives you a headache, and there is nothing negative about saying "You can stop doing that".



As for karma and rebirth. They are concepts. Buddhism teaches concepts, but the primary and the important teachings are the techniques. The techniques of meditation are central, but there are other techniques too.

These techniques "do" things ... they get you to SEE the wall, to see that you are hitting your head on the wall, and to see the connection between hitting your head and getting a headache. And they retrain you so that you no longer compulsively, automatically hit your head on the wall. And they teach you to pay attention to other things in life besides that stupid wall.

One does not need to use the concept of karma or rebirth to use the techniques, nor to get results from the techniques.

And that's the beauty of it. It works.
John the Buddhist,-Lotus fan 卐卐
2012-12-22 15:35:34 UTC
No that would be dropping Right View. It would not be true Buddhism, but mediators benefit from the meditation regardless of what they believe. Buddhism is not really just about meditation though, Buddha even said at some point that meditation in and of itself does not lead people to awakening.



There is then no Buddhism without karma and rebirth, and orthodox Buddhism is against suicide, but that does not mean it does not happen, when you consider the Samurai for example.
Fake Genius
2012-12-22 16:01:06 UTC
the Four Noble Truths are just about Kamma Vipaka and cutting them off.

so No.



suicide doesn't stop one from craving. as long as the condition of reprogramming exist, one will be reborn - like it or not. Shutting down a computer doesn't destroy the programs.



Only formatting will destroy all information and you won't be able to turn the computer again. (Well the motors/harddrive will be running but there is no more computer.)



Suicide is just a different kind of death. That is only like turning the computer off. Not destroying the computer completely. The computer will turn on itself automatically as scheduled.



Nirvana is the state of not becoming again. After you have turn the computer into dusts, it's not possible to make the dusts into a new computer that is related to the computer that became dust.



Sort of.
drail159
2012-12-22 15:34:00 UTC
It may work, but if you took out karma and rebirth it wouldn't be Buddhism any more. Those are at the core of Buddhism.
?
2012-12-22 15:40:07 UTC
I think that you would have to face the issues that caused you to commit suicide in the first place, in your next life. So the whole purpose of Karma and Reincarnation is to to bring balance and resolve to your life.
anonymous
2012-12-24 15:16:25 UTC
You have to believe karma and rebirth to be a Buddhist
anonymous
2012-12-22 15:32:54 UTC
Dear Mortal,



Sure, why not, just like Catholics who use birth control but never ever think of all the lost babies in limbo they are causing.



Keep thinking hard about all this.



borbor





p.s.



All religions are crazy when looked at closely.


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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