How can the Christian god exist?

Question

Please read the whole thing.
Omniscience vs. Human Free will. A Paradox.

Omniscience: Perfect knowledge of past and future events.
Free will: Freedom to choose between alternatives without external coercion.
Paradox: Statements or events that have contradictory and inconsistent properties.

Proposal:

Christianity cannot claim that God is omniscient and also claim that humans have free will. The claims form a paradox, a falsehood.

Reasoning:

If God is omniscient then even before we are born God will have complete knowledge of every decision we are going to make.

Any apparent choice we make regarding the acceptance or denial of Jesus as a savior is predetermined. This must be true to satisfy the assertion that God is omniscient. Effectively we have no choice in the matter. What we think is free will is an illusion. Our choices have been coerced since we exist and act according to the will of God.

Alternatively if human free will is valid, meaning that the outcome of our decisions is not pre-determined or coerced, then God cannot be omniscient, since he would not know in advance our decisions.

Question:

If God knows the decision of every individual, before they are born, regarding the acceptance or denial of Jesus as a savior, then why does he create one set of individuals destined for heaven and another set destined for eternal damnation? This seems unjust, perverse and particularly evil.

Conclusions:

If God is omniscient then humans do not have free will (see argument above) and the apparent arbitrary choice of God to condemn many individuals to eternal damnation is evil. I.e. God does not possess the property of omni benevolence and is therefore not worth our attention.

If humans have true free will then God cannot be omniscient (see argument above). If he is not omniscient then he also cannot be omnipotent since knowledge of the future is a prerequisite for total action. Without these abilities God can no longer be deemed a god – i.e. God does not exist.

If humans do not have free will then the choice of whether to choose Jesus as a savior or not makes total nonsense of Christianity since the choice is pre-determined and we are merely puppets at the hands of an evil monster.

Now I understand that the argument that god is outside of time and space contradicts this. But who says time is real? I think time is a concept. http://www.robsworld.org/notime.html
And for the folks saying that god doesn't think in a linear matter like us. Look you just made that up. That part didn't exist until the nearest 100 years. You are just adding more and more as your god is disproven more and more. If I asked someone 300,400,500 years ago would they say god doesn't think in a linear matter? No. So why just keep making stuff up to support your god? I thought he didn't like lying?

Thoughts and contradictions?

READ THE WHOLE POST!!!

Answer 1

I've always been puzzled by the notion held by some people that if God knows what we are going to choose in the future, then we don't really have free will. They say that if God knows we are going to make a certain "free will" choice, then when it is time for us to make that choice, because God knows what we are going to choose, we are not really free to make a different choice and God's foreknowledge means we cannot have free will. Quite honestly, I do not see this as being a problem at all. Let's work with the idea that we are free-will creatures and that God knows all things, even our future choices. Furthermore, let's define free will in the Open Theist sense as the ability to make equal choices between options, regardless of a person's sinful nature.1 Given these conditions, are God's omniscience and our free will incompatible as the Open Theists claim?



http://carm.org/if-god-knows-our-free-will-choices-do-we-still-have-free-will

Answer 2

and what's that information that God doesnt exist that atheists shop claiming to have yet under no circumstances present day?? You too dont have any information that God doesnt exist. You cant disprove God so why dont you purely close the hell up and stop mocking human beings for their ideals? whilst will atheists understand that the character of God's evidences isn't actual and for this reason it cant be provided the way atheist call for it? whilst will atheists ever state their atheism for what it rather is |: A theory, no longer a written actuality?

Answer 3

Well, it is a very good reasoning, but not a complete one.



First, you must realize the God of Christianity's pre-eminent characteristic is Holiness. He is perfect in all ways, shape and form. His love is perfect, and infinite, for us, His creation.



The Love has no bounds - this is very important to see - and by this, He gives us free will to decide.



EVEN IF he may know what we will choose, he still gives us the choice - because that is Love.



You are correct in saying that God is omniscient, but incorrect in saying that this omniscience creates coercion or pre-determination. Our thoughts and action are our own, be assured of this fact.



God does not influence us to one choice or another, and therefore it is not coerced, you could say it is pre-known, what we are going to do, but not determined, for God does not dictate our lives to us.



It is also true that we are supposed to live or lives in accordance with God's will, but this is a different story. Once you have accepted Christ and the Holy Spirit in your life, you are guided in the Way, and want to do no other. Living in the means of Christ is a lifestyle choice, but nonetheless it is still a choice.



These theories you have are very Calvinist, in that you suggest predestination as a means for salvation. But know that God gives us the choice, because that is His love for us.



God does not condemn, we condemn ourselves by making the conscious decision to reject this saving grace (love).



You must also understand that God does not create us one way or another, he did not create one person to be evil and another to be holy. He simply gives us the means to achieve both, and that mean is free will.



You say stuff about God's linear matter thinking, and how this is untrue, well I'm not saying it is true, but rather that we can never truly know how God thinks or why He does what He does, for in our own Bible it is written: (Acts of the Apostles 1:7)



>"He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority."



So to wrap it up, the God-given gift of free will is a direct result of God's infinite love for us. (if He simply commanded us to accept Him is this love?) God may know the ways and decisions of man, but makes no move to influence them (this is also why He does not appear to prove to us His existence) for He has set the course of the world and lets it be, He has given us His revelation (found in the Christian Bible) and gives us the Choice to accept or decline.



This acceptance or declination then determines our salvation or damnation.



He does not condemn, but only saves. We condemn ourselves. For God is Love and Merciful, one must only seek Him to know this for themselves.





With the Love of a Holy and Omnipotent God,



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



In response to your Additional Details; If you loved the robot with all of your being, as God does with us, would you not allow it to live and love as you have done? Would you not give it the hope and opportunity to come back to you?



Since God is omniscient He knows all things that His creation does, all the bad and good. The bad pains Him, enough that he manifested Himself in human form and died by crucifixion. But again, since God is Love he allows us the opportunity to return to His ways because He has given us all the information (His revelation) we need to do so.

Answer 4

The fact that God has the ability to know what will happen in the future does not negate the fact that he doesn't have to use that ability if he chooses not to.



The fact that humans were given free will to make their own choices on whether or not to obey God is not negated by the fact that God can, if he chooses, know whether someone WILL choose to obey or not.

Answer 5

The key phrase I took from it is "not worth our attention"



Even if there is a "Higher Power" the chance that it demands our worship and is called "God" are about as likely as getting struck by lightning while being eaten by a shark in freshwater.

Answer 6

Free will.

Let me explain, The fact God knows what we will do is one thing, That still doesn't change we will be the ones to make those decisions. The fact we make certain decision is up to us and if God knows these decisions it doesn't affect whether will will make them or not because or lifes will have dictated our decision.

Answer 7

We have free will.

Knowing what will happen and influencing what will happen are different. We have the choice to deny God, God knows what will happen, if we deny God and God knows that we will not then he will give you a sign.

Answer 8

The Westminster Confession of Faith:



Chapter III - Of God’s Eternal Decree.

i. God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass:(1) yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,(2) nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.(3)

(1) Eph 1:11; Ro 11:33; Heb 6:17; Ro 9:15,18

(2) Jas 1:13,17; 1Jn 1:5

(3) Ac 2:23; Mt 17:12; Ac 4:27,28; Jn 19:11; Pr 16:33

ii. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions,(1) yet hath He not decreed anything because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.(2)

(1) Ac 15:18; 1Sa 23:11,12; Mt 11:21,23

(2) Ro 9:11,13,16,18

iii. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels(1) are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death.(2)

(1) 1Ti 5:21; Mt 25:41

(2) Ro 9:22,23; Eph 1:5,6; Pr 16:4

iv. These angels and men, thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed; and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.(1)

(1) 2Ti 2:19; Jn 13:18

v. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory,(1) out of His mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto;(2) and all to the praise of His glorious grace.(3)

(1) Eph 1:4,9,11; Ro 8:30; 2Ti 1:9; 1Th 5:9

(2) Ro 9:11,13,16; Eph 1:4,9

(3) Eph 1:6,12

vi. As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so hath He, by the eternal and most free purpose of His will, foreordained all the means thereunto.(1) Wherefore, they who are elected being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ;(2) are effectually called unto faith in Christ by His Spirit working in due season; are justified, adopted, sanctified,(3) and kept by His power, through faith, unto salvation.(4) Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.(5)

(1) 1Pe 1:2; Eph 1:4,5; Eph 2:10; 2Th 2:13

(2) 1Th 5:9,10; Tit 2:14

(3) Ro 8:30; Eph 1:5; 2Th 2:13

(4) 1Pe 1:5

(5) Jn 17:9;Ro 8:28; Jn 6:64,65; Jn 10:26; Jn 8:47; 1Jn 2:19

vii. The rest of mankind, God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extendeth or withholdeth mercy, as He pleaseth, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonour and wrath for their sin, to the praise of His glorious justice.(1)

(1) Mt 11:25,26; Ro 9:17,18,21,22; 2Ti 2:19,20; Jude 4; 1Pe 2:8

viii. The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care,(1) that men, attending the will of God revealed in His Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election.(2) So shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God,(3) and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation, to all that sincerely obey the Gospel.(4)

(1) Ro 9:20; Ro 11:33; Dt 29:29

(2) 2Pe 1:10

(3) Eph 1:6; Ro 11:33

(4) Ro 11:5,6,20; 2Pe 1:10; Ro 8:33; Lk 10:20

Answer 9

You sir are a very confused man.