Question:
Do Jehovah's Witnesses have a "slave" concept similar to the Trinity doctrine?
Τιμοθέῳ
2009-02-16 06:39:57 UTC
Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave concept similar to the Trinity doctrine? Is there a composite unity in the Jehovah's Witnesses' ranks? The below pastes show the FDS is a composite person, a composite individual, a composite slave, a composite prophet and a composite faithful and discreet slave.

Watchtower 1998 9/1 p.15
And although Jesus-"the head of every man"-is in heaven, there are still on earth "the remaining ones" of his anointed brothers, who have the hope of ruling with him in the heavens. (Revelation 12:17; 20:6) These make up the composite "faithful and discreet slave." Christians show their submission to Jesus, and therefore to Jesus’ head, Jehovah, by accepting the oversight of that "slave." (Matthew 24:45-47; 25:40)

Watchtower 1982 10/1 p.27
At this late date there is a mere remnant of this “prophet” class yet on earth. The “war of the great day of God the Almighty” at Har-Magedon could not start before this composite “prophet” ends his work.

Watchtower 1981 p.26
Jesus Christ foretold that he would put this “faithful and discreet slave” in charge of all his belongings to provide spiritual food for his followers. The foregoing facts prove that this “slave” is a composite individual and is associated with the Christian witnesses of Jehovah.-Matt. 24:45-47.

Watchtower 1958 1/15 p.46
Since 1919 this “faithful and discreet slave,” who is a composite person made up of all anointed Christian joint heirs of Jesus Christ, has been taking care of “all his belongings” on earth.

Watchtower 1957 7/15 p.436
The facts show that this slave that God is using is not a single person but a composite individual, a group, an instrument, an organization, which uses as its legal instrument the Watch Tower Society.-Matt. 24:45-47, NW.


The Trinity doctrine shows a composite being of Three Divine Persons in One God. All three Persons are co-equal and co-eternal and each are fully God.

The FDS concept also shows a composite being (being is same as individual) of 144,000 persons in one "slave". Each person is co-equal and co-eternal (the Watchtower definition of co-eternal is not the same as ours), and each are fully "slave".

Before you answer...

I am not asking whether or not JWs believe in the Trinity.

I am not asking if the FDS has anything to do with the Trinity.

This time, I ask all JWs to please stick to the subject re. the similarities of the FDS concept and the Trinity doctrine...nothing else.
Six answers:
angelmusic
2009-02-16 08:02:06 UTC
The body of Christ is the "faithful and discreet slave."



The "body of Christ" is made up of many members. - 1st Corinthians 12:14



"But much rather is it the case that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary," - 1st Corinthians 12:22



"Now you are Christ's body, and members individually. And God has set the respective ones in the congregation, first, apostles; second, prophets; third, teachers; then powerful works; then gifts of healings; helpful services, abilities to direct, different tongues. Not all are apostles, are they? Not all are prophets, are they? Not all are teachers, are they? Not all perform powerful works, do they? Not all have gifts of healings, do they? Not all speak in tongues, do they? Not all are translators, are they?" - 1st Corinthians 12:27-30



There were those "weaker" less qualified, as "members of the body of Christ". But that was a composite.



Not all were at the same level of spiritual maturity and understanding.



Galatians 6:1 says - "Brothers, even though a man takes some false step before he is aware of it, you who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man.."



So even though they all made up the ONE BODY, not all were equal, not all performed the same activities, and they were still viewed as individuals.



"Now you are Christ's body, and members INDIVIDUALLY."
anonymous
2009-02-16 08:35:26 UTC
FDS (Faithful and Discreet Slave) - made up of many SEPARATE and DISTINCT persons that function as one FDS (composite).



Trinity (3 Almighty God Persons) - made up of 3 SEPARATE and DISTINCT persons? You have the Mormon concept of God (composite). Three separate and distinct persons that function as One.



Or do you prefer the (compound) God preached by the Catholics...who added the Son and later the Holy Spirit to the true God making him into a Triune God?



Edited:

Tim, I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I understand what you are trying to say. JWs know that there is such a thing as a composite man...we just don't believe God is composite.





How to recognize counterfeit Christians

http://www.counterfeitchristians.info/
anonymous
2009-02-16 09:24:14 UTC
Why are you doing this? go on the WWW Search "Holy Trinity"



Most Christ-professing people believe God is an unfathomable MYSTERY; a "Trinity." This doctrine, proposed and accepted more than three hundred years after Christ, is held by the Roman Catholic church and dozens of Protestant denominations. Millions seem to accept it without question; singing songs like "Holy, Holy, Holy….Blessed Trinity," each Sunday. WHY is the "Trinity" mentioned nowhere in the Bible? WHO, or WHAT is the Holy Spirit? Is God "One in ‘three Persons?’" Is He an "hypostasis," or does the Godhead consist of Father and Son? You will be astonished to see what your Bible says!



Is the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity obsolete?



Yes. "God in three persons, Blessed Trinity" is an outdated and inaccurate statement of the



nature of God.



(a) The meaning of the word "person" has changed.



(b) Our understanding of relationships has changed.



(c) Our understanding of the "substance" of which God is composed has changed.



(d) The divine self-revelation has continued.



(e) The theological problems the Doctrine was intended to solve are no longer of prime concern.





All this is well-understood by theologians, but has not yet permeated down to the broad mass of Christians. Many still feel that "belief in the Trinity" is required - but, when pressed, no one is able to explain the Doctrine! It has been called a "strict mystery" - a hidden truth that is still hidden even after it has been revealed!
keiichi
2009-02-16 06:58:52 UTC
The word composite means "made up of distinct parts." A composite unity, therefore, consists of various parts, each in itself making up one total.



No mention of "composite unity" was used in any of the magazines.
bear witness
2009-02-16 06:55:11 UTC
It does not have.



JWs believe that Jehovah alone is the Almighty God, not Jesus, and DEFINITELY not the faithful and discreet slave class. But in the trinitarian belief Jehovah, along with Jesus and the holy spirit are part of one Almighty God.



JWs pray to Jehovah alone. We do not address our prayers to Jesus, and DEFINITELY not to the faithful and discreet slaves. But in the trinitarian belief you can also pray to Jesus.



JWs worship Jehovah alone. We do not "worship" Jesus and we DEFINITELY not worship the faithful and discreet slaves. But in the trinitarian belief, you can worship the three persons namely Jehovah, JEsus, and the Holy Spirit.



I hope I sticked into your question.
anonymous
2009-02-20 23:42:42 UTC
Greetings,



There is no similarity between the Trinitarian’s mystical “three separate persons within one being because they equally share one substance” and a group of people being united in purpose and belief.



Whoever dreamt up this argument does not understand the Trinity nor does he realize that this question and the argument behind it actually destroys the Trinity doctrine. As with every Trinitarian defense, it requires an ignorance from its hearers regarding grammar, context and the definition of words–in this case both of English and Hebrew.



First a little education: Trinitarians attempt to prove that God is three distinct “persons” who actually make only one God by sharing the same substance equally. One of their major “proof texts” for this “composite God” is Deut.6:4 which reads: “Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah” according to Young’s Literal Translation. Trinitarians claim that since the Hebrew word for God (ELOHIM) is plural it must indicate multiple entities within the “God.” They further point out that the Hebrew word for one (ECHAD) can be used of a “composite unity” such as Num.13:23 "one cluster of grapes," Gen 2:24 "they shall become one flesh" and Gen. 11:24 "the people are one and they all have one language."



The trouble with these Trinitarian arguments is that they only convince those who are ignorant of Hebrew grammar and don’t bother to do the simplest of research. In other words you have to have Trinitarian blinders on to accept these claims.



First, does the plural word ELOHIM indicate that there are three “persons” within one God?



It’s interesting that when Trinitarians point to the plural ELOHIM they are actually contradicting their own belief. Because ELOHIM means, not "persons," but "gods." So those who argue that this word implies a Trinity make themselves polytheists, because it would mean that there were three GODS in the Trinity.



Grammatically, this Trinitarian claim is rejected by virtually all modern scholars as this quote shows: "The plural form of Elohim has given rise to much discussion. The fanciful idea that it referred to the trinity of persons in the Godhead hardly finds now a supporter among Scholars."—Smith Bible Dictionary. Many other reference works agree: “The Broadman Bible Commentary” 2:214; Milton S. Terry; “Biblical Hermeneutics” p86; “Theological Wordbook of the OT” p93; the “American Journal of Semitic Languages and Literatures”, Vol. Xxi.; “Girdlestones Synonyms of the O.T.” and many others.



Even more importantly, Trinitarians must ignore Hebrew grammar because when the plural ELOHIM is used with a singular verb and adjectives it ALWAYS denotes a single entity, never a plurality!! This is the case with Deut.6:4; it CANNOT denote a plural entity by the laws of grammar!



So what does the *evidence* show us? That the Hebrew usage does not indicate anywhere that ELOHIM ever means a multi-personal "plurality." The "intensive plural" is common with many Hebrew words, and semantically it NEVER means what Trinitarians what to force it to. As the above quotes show, this argument is not used by anyone who truly respects the evidence. Therefore, the statement "God is a plurality" is a Theological presupposition which has no support in Scripture or Hebrew usage of the word ELOHIM. It's only source is eisegesis: forcing a personal Theology back into the text.





Now, when Trinitarians point to the use of the word one (ECHAD) when it refers to a “composite unity” such as “one cluster of grapes” they are deceiving those who are ignorant of Hebrew grammar. This is because the usual meaning of ECHAD by itself is “numerically one, single, only” EXCLUSIVE of any others (Gen 21:15; 27:38; Lev; 14:10; Josh.23:10; 1Ki. 4:19; Eccl 4:8).



The only time that ECHAD means "several unified into one" or has a "collective sense" is when it is used with "composite or plural modifiers". We see one example of this at Gen.2:24 where it says: "a man...must stick to his wife and they MUST BECOME one flesh." Here we see that "ECHAD" is used with the composite modifiers "must become."



However, at Deut.6:4 there are no such “composite modifiers.” The verse does not read: "Jehovah our God is "3 persons that must become our One Jehovah," or "Jehovah our God is one cluster" or "YHWH and someone else are one God." In the Bible ECHAD used without plural or composite modifiers ALWAYS has the significance of, "single," "individual," and "only" and NEVER indicates a “composite unity.”



Volume 1 of Botterweck's "The Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament" makes this statement about ECHAD: "This numeral 'echadh, 'one,' begins the series of ordinary numbers. It is an adjective. It can be used as a cardinal, ordinal, and distinctive number....As a numerical adjective and adverb it takes on meanings such as 'only,' 'unique,' 'prominent,' 'alone,' 'same, uniform,' 'entire, undivided.'– pp. 193, 194





Now, all this can be demonstrated with the English grammar where the Watchtower spoke of the “composite prophet.” Yes, the word prophet is in the singular and it is made up of many men. Yet, the grammar makes it very clear that these men are not a mystically united “one substance” or literally “one prophet.” This is because the context uses composite modifiers such as “a class”, “members”, “they”, “priestHOOD”, “nation”, and “a people.” Further, the word prophet is placed in quote marks which is an explicit indicator that the word is being used in a non-literal sense.



No one in their right mind would ever construe this paragraph to indicate some mystical singular being that is made up of many men. They would have to be completely ignorant of English grammar, definitions, and reality. It is the same with Trinitarian arguments.



Trinitarians can only believe these claims support their doctrine by ignoring the facts of Hebrew grammar and redefining words to fit their belief. That is using the logical fallacy of anachronism. They must force their own later definitions back into the true, original meaning of Bible times.



Yes, Trinitarians believe that they agree with Deuteronomy that there is only one God and not three Gods, but their belief is dependant upon a Trinitarian misinterpretation of the plural ELOHIM and the word “one”.





Further, just like this one, many if not all of the explanations illustrating the Trinity amount to tri-theism. For instance, the common explanations of the Trinity such as “It’s like one man can be a Father, husband, and son” or a “husband, wife and son all having one nature” or “an egg consists of shell, white, and yolk.” All these either fall into the category of tritheistic or modalistic descriptions which are heretical to Trinitarians.



The Trinitarian Alister E. McGrath says of such descriptions: "We are asked to imagine three human beings. Each of them is distinct; yet they share a common humanity...When all is said and done, this analogy leads directly to an understated tritheism." "While Gregory may wish us to think of "Peter, James and John" as different instances of the same human nature, the more natural way of interpreting the illustration is to think of them as three distinct and independent individuals."



Illustrations such as the husband and wife does not support an ontological tri-unity since no one understands them as being "ontologically" the same essence. Illustrations such as the “egg” do not support the Trinitarian of separate “persons” but rather one person who manifests himself in three manners or “modes.” Both considered heresies.



When all is said and done the Trinity remains an unexplainable and incomprehensible “mystery.” It is exactly what Jesus said was wrong with the Samaritans: “you worship what you do not know.” Because of this inherent confusion it is no wonder that Trinitarians themselves must resort to logic and analogies which reasonable people understand as indicating three Gods.



On the other hand, the Bible is very clear: Everywhere in the Bible God is separate and distinct from Christ. Christ is always presented as less than Almighty God (Jn. 14:28; 20:17; Mk.13:32; 1Cor.15:27,28; Rev.3:2,12). At the highest position he will ever attain, Jesus still has a God over him and is "subject" to *GOD* the same way we are "subject" to him.



"Anyone who can worship a trinity and insist that his religion is a monotheism can believe anything."-Robert A. Heinlein



Yours,



Ron Rhoades


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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