Question:
Questions for creationists (pt. 2)...?
anonymous
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Questions for creationists (pt. 2)...?
Twelve answers:
Martin S
2006-05-14 21:29:35 UTC
Since I've just found your questions and since I already have access to the answers I'm again going to do a copy and paste from the Answers button on my site @ http://web.express56.com/~bromar/



__________________





Radiometric Dating - A Brief Explanation

Radiometric dating is the primary dating scheme employed by scientists to determine the age of the earth. Radiometric dating techniques take advantage of the natural decay of radioisotopes. An isotope is one of two or more atoms which have the same number of protons in their nuclei, but a different number of neutrons. Radioisotopes are unstable isotopes: they spontaneously decay (emitting radiation in the process -- thus making them radioactive). They continue to decay going through various transitional states until they finally reach stability. For example, Uranium-238 (U238) is a radioisotope. It will spontaneously decay until it transitions into Lead-206 (Pb206). The numbers 238 and 206 represent these isotopes' atomic mass. The Uranium-238 radioisotope goes through 13 transitional stages before stabilizing into Lead-206 (U238 > Th234 > Pa234 > U234 > Th230 > Ra226 > Rn222 > Po218 > Pb214 > Bi214 > Po214 > Pb210 > Bi210 > Po210 > Pb206). In this instance, Uranium-238 is called the "parent" and Lead-206 is called the "daughter". By measuring how long it takes for an unstable element to decay into a stable element and by measuring how much daughter element has been produced by the parent element within a specimen of rock, scientists believe they are able to determine the age of the rock. This belief is based upon three significant assumptions.



Radiometric Dating - The Assumptions

Many of the ages derived by radiometric dating techniques are highly publicized. Nevertheless, the fundamental assumptions employed are not. Here are the three major assumptions for your consideration:



The rate of decay remains constant.

There has been no contamination (that is, no daughter or intermediate elements have been introduced or leeched from the specimen of rock).

We can determine how much daughter there was to begin with (if we assume there was no daughter to begin with, yet there was daughter at the formation of the rock, the rock would have a superficial appearance of age). Are these foundational assumptions reasonable? Recent findings seem to indicate that though we ourselves have not been able to vary the decay rates by much in the laboratory, the decay rates may have been accelerated in the unobservable past [1]. If this were the case, the first assumption would be deemed unreasonable. This would completely upset our current standardized view of earth's history. Dr Carl Wieland summarizes the recent findings: "When uranium decays to lead, a by-product of this process is the formation of helium, a very light, inert gas which readily escapes from rock. Certain crystals called zircons, obtained from drilling into very deep granites, contain uranium which has partly decayed into lead. By measuring the amount of uranium and 'radiogenic lead' in these crystals, one can calculate that, if the decay rate has been constant, about 1.5 billion years must have passed. (This is consistent with the geologic 'age' assigned to the granites in which these zircons are found.) There is a significant amount of helium from that '1.5 billion years of decay' still inside the zircons. This is at first glance surprising, because of the ease with which one would expect helium (with its tiny, light, unreactive atoms) to escape from the spaces within the crystal structure. There should hardly be any left, because with such a slow buildup, it should be seeping out continually and not accumulating. Drawing any conclusions from the above depends, of course, on actually measuring the rate at which helium leaks out of zircons. This is what one of the recent RATE [2] papers reports on. The samples were sent… to a world-class expert to measure these rates. The consistent answer: the helium does indeed seep out quickly over a wide range of temperatures. In fact, the results show that because of all the helium still in the zircons, these crystals (and since this is Precambrian basement granite, by implication the whole earth) could not be older than between 4,000 and 14,000 years. In other words, in only a few thousand years, 1.5 billion years' worth (at today's rates) of radioactive decay has taken place. Interestingly, the data has since been refined and updated to give a date of 5680 (+/- 2000) years." [3]



Learn more now! http://www.allaboutcreation.org/radiometric-dating.htm





Footnotes:



D. Russel Humphreys, Steven A. Austin, John R. Baumgardner, Andrew A. Snelling, Helium Diffusion Rates Support Accelerated Nuclear Decay; Article available online at http://www.icr.org/research/icc03/pdf/helium_ICC_7-22-03.pdf.

The "RATE" project stands for, "Radioisotopes and the Age of The Earth"

Carl Wieland, RATE Group Reveal Exciting Breakthroughs, 2003
chaz
2006-05-11 23:41:25 UTC
FIRST of all, creationism is scientific. Check out the movie "A Question of Origins" for further evidence. However, i appreciate you posting these questions under "Religion and Spriituality". Keep in mind however, that Evolution is also a religion. (without evidence though)I dont know what you're trying to prove with the different dating methods though. All that proves is that the Earth was created in a very short period of time - seven days - since they all show the same results. (Ahh, now you understand) As for the distribution of fossils, what are you talking about? There are flowers on every continent except Antarctica.
dph_40
2006-05-10 04:31:20 UTC
Because why should we be confused with a bunch of different answers when there is only one answer? God is not out to confuse us, but to set us free in his Knowledge and Wisdom. Just as 1+1=2 and it always does - then why shouldn't scientific measuring methods not all produce the same result.
Jack
2006-05-10 04:25:29 UTC
Regarding your first question on dating methods. Recent scientific thought regarding string theory has begun to question the "constancy of constants" in the physical universe as we know it (see source below, from Scientific American). As such, it is possible that assumed constants like rates of radioactive decay may not really be constants.
cjkeysjr
2006-05-09 02:32:48 UTC
GOOD THOUGHTFUL QUESTION DESIGNED TO SEPARATE THE SHEEP FROM THE GOATS HA HA. You did put it in the right place here on Religion and Spirituality ha ha GREAT!



If I answer this will you not get mad? will you consider my answer carefully then do with as you please? Ok here goes:



There is nothing wrong with the dating methods and systems. They are as accurate as anyone is willing to accept. I do agree that the close relationship in respect to the dates is remarkable, however such must not be the only absolute factor to precisely pinpoint to a specific minute or second. A conclusion must remain within the designated limits say give or take a million or so years ha ha ha. No that give or take must also be reasonable OK



Now Natural science is a science. Bible scholarship is a science. Religion is a science. Creationism is a science. Evolutionism is a science. Is that what you wanted to read? Now you can prove it by just typing the definition of the word science from the Webster's Collegate Dictionary. It is the systematically collections of facts to prove a clear truth that does exist [basically].



Well now what is the problem. Ha Ha Ha WOW! THE PROBLEM IS THAT SCIENCE DOES NOT LIE, SCIENTISTS DO IN REGARDS TO THEIR CONCLUSIONS OK



Yes, bible scholars, teachers, preachers, evolutionists, creationists, natural scientists, etc., daily lie to each other for their own personal motives. My Friend how important would one of them be if thay all wore white robes, white shoes, white hats, a white mask and wore white gloves. Ha Ha Ha they would all be the same like a heard of white sheep.



To be different they do lie to each other to keep up the controversies and the confusion. Its just a game for self glorification and other selfish motives that will not end soon UNLESS HA HA HA



There is a plan now on the drawing board to put on thye brakes for a while. Just be patient a little while longer. There is a RUMOR that someone has found and does own the MISSING LINK THAT HAS EVADED THE SCIENTIFIC FIELDS FOR AGES.



Just wait and see the glory of My God in action!



I will not look at your supposed first question OK



You have a good day and do smile OK
helper
2006-05-08 16:14:47 UTC
Belief at the Level of Molecular Biology



I am very sorry my Lord, God the Greatest, Allah the Magnificent, that I was so late to recognize your blessings in providing me with all these great miraculous molecules such as hemoglobin to perfect my life and health. Life was impossible without these molecules, and I just remembered their value when I get ill because of a disease that affects their function or production. I am very sorry because I didn’t thank you for your blessings, rather I questioned your presence, but now after I know the facts I will never forget you again, please forgive me.

I started to realize the miracle of human protein molecules when I was studying probabilities in calculus. I was amazed to realize that when we create a long password, the possibility of breaking it becomes more difficult the longer it is. A 50 letter password is impossible to break even if we use a super computer capable of 50 trillion calculations per second for thousands of billions of years. This is because we have 26 letters to create the password and when we calculate the probabilities it will be 26^50 which is an incredibly very large number. This immediately drew my attention to our subject molecular biology. Our human body vital functions depend largely on different types of specialized proteins such as hormones, enzymes, hemoglobin, albumin, collagen, etc… These molecules are synthesized from their building blocks the amino acids under control of genes and information encoded in our DNA. The number of the building blocks, the amino acids is 20. The size of the proteins may vary from small polypeptides less than 50 amino acids long to very large size of 27000 amino acids. Albumin a very vital protein is 585 amino acids long. Hemoglobin, the red pigment of our blood is a complex molecule and I will discuss it here as the basis of belief at the level of molecular biology.

To explain the existence of life in this planet two theories were proposed; evolution, and intelligent design creation. The idea of evolution depends largely on random slow genetic changes (mutations) that affect living species during very long periods of time, the bad changes will disappear and the good changes will persist according to the law of natural selection. The weakness of this theory comes from the assumption that very slow changes occur over very long periods of time to achieve gradual evolution. In the password example above we noticed that a very fast super computer of 50 trillion calculations per second was unable to break a 50 letter password even after thousands of billions of years. The age of the universe is estimated to be only 15 billion years, the sun 4.5 billion years, and our planet the earth is also 4.5 billion years. If we look at a small protein molecule of only 100 amino acids as a password, and the 20 amino acids as the alphabets, and we calculate the probability of achieving the correct sequence of this particular protein by chance it will be 20^100, an incredibly large number which will not be achieved by chance even if we use a super computer for millions of billions of years. It is this simple idea that renders the theory of evolution just impossible. The vital functions of specific proteins such as hormones and collagen depend largely on the accurate sequence of the amino acid chains which is called the primary structure of the protein. Any change of any amino acid in that chain may render that protein mal or none functioning leading to a particular disorder or disease. If we consider that there are millions of vital protein molecules working in the human body in great coordination and harmony, and if we disrupt this system in any way, a disease which may be fatal may occur; we may conclude that evolution has no rule in the presence of such a complex system; a suitable example of it is the hemoglobin molecule in our blood.

Hemoglobin is the molecule that gives our blood its red color. This molecule is essential for life as it is responsible for carrying oxygen from our lungs to the various tissues and organs. Hemoglobin contains four polypeptides; two alpha chains (141 amino acids), and two beta chains (146 amino acids). Each chain contains a heme-iron group.

Hemoglobin synthesis requires the coordinated production of heme and globin. Heme is the group that mediates reversible binding of oxygen by hemoglobin. Globin is the protein that surrounds and protects the heme molecule. The pairing of one alpha chain and one beta chain produces a hemoglobin dimer (two chains). The hemoglobin dimer does not efficiently deliver oxygen, however. Two dimers combine to form a hemoglobin tetramer, which is the functional form of hemoglobin. Complex biophysical characteristics of the hemoglobin tetramer permit the exquisite control of oxygen uptake in the lungs and release in the tissues that is necessary to sustain life. The genes that encode the alpha globin chains are on chromosome 16 and those that encode the beta globin chains are on chromosome 11. The expression of the alpha and beta genes is closely balanced by an unknown mechanism. Balanced gene expression is required for normal red cell function. Disruption of the balance produces a disorder called thalassemia. The two alpha and two beta chains hemoglobin is called adult hemoglobin (hemoglobin A), because it is not found in fetal life. The fetus requires higher oxygen affinity hemoglobin a two alpha and two gamma chains which is also encoded on chromosome 11 (hemoglobin F). The mechanism that suppresses the production of hemoglobin F and triggers the production of hemoglobin A at birth is unknown. However, if hemoglobin F persisted after birth in high percentage it causes a very serious disease called thalassemia major. Mutations in the globin chain are associated with the hemoglobin abnormalities, such as sickle-cell disease and thalassemia.

Sickle cell anemia a serious disease results from a change of a single amino acid in the beta chain. In position 6 the HbS had a valine, while the HbA had a glutamic acid. This tiny difference of a single amino acid somehow altered the properties of HbS in such a way that it made people very sick.

What did the valine substitution do to HbS? HbS can bind oxygen and transport it fine. But the valine causes molecules of hemoglobin to clump together. This, in turn, makes the cells take on the deformed sickle shape. The distortion of the cell's shape makes it mechanically fragile, and such cells disintegrate sooner. In fact, these cells last less than half as long as normal red blood cells. Obviously, loss of many red blood cells would lead to anemia. Another problem is that the deformed shape of the cells makes it difficult for them to pass through tiny blood vessels. They sometimes get stuck and block blood flow to vital organs and tissues.

Sickle cell disease was the first disease that was understood at the molecular level. It was caused by the change of a single amino acid, which in turn, was caused by a change in the DNA code for the protein. Nowadays fetal cells can be tested for presence of the sickle cell gene, by using DNA tests.

To summarize we have two optimal fully developed normal hemoglobin molecules; A and F. The A is the ideal for adults, and the F is the ideal for the fetus, but they can’t be substituted. Is this a master design creation or a randomly evolved phenomenon? We are not expecting to have any new mutations in the near future to improve these molecules and to produce a new for example super hemoglobin. Likewise, we have abnormal hemoglobin molecules such as hemoglobin S and we are not expecting any new mutations to produce other abnormal hemoglobins in the near future because if mutations occur they just occur very slowly over very long periods of time. As we explained before if we have super fast changes in nearly unlimited time we hardly may find the correct sequence for the proper globin chain even after millions of billions of years. The age of the universe is very short at only15 billion years; so the question is when did the needed experiments to produce the optimal alpha, beta, and gamma chains to produce the appropriate hemoglobin molecule, A or F took place? And then we can extend the questions to the other very important proteins such as albumin, Insulin, myoglobin, collagen, etc… all working in a marvelous harmony and coordination. In my humble opinion it is just next to impossible to explain the presence of this system on the basis of random slow evolution. It only can be explained on the bases of a wise, knowledgeable, capable designer who created all these beautiful systems.



Appendix:

To calculate for the probabilities of the 141 amino acid chain we do the following:

20^141, then we divide this by the speed of the super computer 50,000,000,000,000, then we divide by 60 seconds, then we divide by 60 minuets, then we divide by 24 hours, then we divide by 365 days, and we get the result in years needed to obtain the correct sequence by chance which is: 1.8*10^162 years, or approximately 200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years. Compare this with the short age of the universe of only 15000000000 years.
tobinmbsc
2006-05-08 14:56:35 UTC
God created everything that is. Have you seen a tree with more than enough rings to cover over 6000 years. Science and Creation will come together in the end. It has already started. There is nothing about you that is the same as anyone else living or dead. Only God could do that. He calls us His special gems.
ByHisGrace
2006-05-08 14:07:57 UTC
http://www.answersingenesis.org/
anonymous
2006-05-08 13:50:43 UTC
Considering that flowering plants are found on six continents, I am not sure why you feel their distribution is limited.
anonymous
2006-05-08 13:50:34 UTC
God uses the foolish things of this world to confound the wise!
Miss Lisa
2006-05-08 06:56:54 UTC
My personal belief is that, though the Bible says creation happened in 7 days, there really is no definitive measurement of time at the beginning. We cannot say that a day was the standard 24 hour day that we have come to accept in modern times. For all we know, a day was 1 million or 1000 or 100 years. So, the time it took to create the sun could have been 1 million years...and then the planets took another million and then the teraforming of the Earth to sustain life (plants, water, etc)...and then the animals and lastly - man.



If you put the Darwinistic evolution timeline up against creationism, you can see where (if you let go of the idea of 24 hours in a day), they follow a similar pattern.



This would explain why you have many different dating methods giving the same results...because there is no discrepancy. Evolution and Creationism are two ways of explaining the same events.



As for the limited distribution of flowering plants - the organic material that makes up plant life breaks down much quicker than the skeletal remains of animals. Thus, the bones can last long enough to create a "normal" fossil (in rock, etc) whereas a plant fossil is usually the result of an event (fossilized in amber, volcanic lava creating an instant fossil, etc). The evidence of animal life is more durable and so you are going to get more evidence that withstands the tests of time.
Donald Shaw
2006-05-08 13:46:48 UTC
People believe what they want to believe, and your eyes are closed to truth.



The truth is, any God with the power to create all that is by speaking it into existence can also speak into existence it's history, including fossils and relics.


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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