On the separation of Church and State...?

Question

Okay, obviously I'm not a Christian. I don't have anything against them, except when I'm forced to live by their beliefs.

But when we have hundreds of different religions in this country, why do we still have "In God we Trust" on our money? And apparently stem-cell research--which could save millions of lives--is illegal because of the moral ramifications namely brought on by the Church. Also, there is still the fight against abortion going on--also a Christian idea (though thankfully still legal).

How does this help the separation, when we are still made to live by Church standards? I know others don't believe in this stuff, but wouldn't it be better to leave it up to the indvidual--IE, if you don't want stem-cell research done, reject the cures for diseases you have that were found through it? Or simply not get abortions?

I just think it's wrong to be forced to live by another's religious beliefs, and I think that the "separation" is just not real. Ideas? Anything to add?

Answer 1

I have long been bored of attempts in the U.S.A. to legislate religion; lately I've been growing irritated.



True enough, the Constitution does not contain the phrase "separation of church and state". Of course, while the word "state" appears many times, "church" does not. Nor does "God".



Other than the 1st Amendment, the only reference to religion that I saw was in Article VI, where it states that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States".



I'd say that's a clear sign that the Founding Fathers did not want religion controlling our country, and I agree with them.



I've heard the argument before, that "freedom OF religion" is not the same thing as "freedom FROM religion", but I confess that I don't know what that means. It doesn't matter what you worship, as long as you worship something? That's nonsense.



I enjoy the concept of majority rule with minority rights. I suspect that when someone says the U.S.A. originates in Christianity, they are really interested in peeling away rights for non-Christians. I don't understand how someone who uses "Christian" as an adjective synonymous with "decent" would go along with such a plan.



Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but my perception is that religion strengthens the "sheep" reaction, producing large blocs of voters who decide all issues on the basis of one issue. That scares me. On some level, it doesn't seem to matter what I have to say about the definition of marriage, or effective environmental policy, or good foreign relations, or how to deploy our armed forces, or any of the other stuff that makes our country a country--the only way to change some people's minds is through their church. I suspect that some people will vote for anything with a pulse and a Bible. Perhaps irrationally, I fear that the number of such voters is alarmingly high, and that the course of our nation will be determined not on the merits of how its prospective leaders feel about this world, but on how they feel about the next one.



I want to be represented by someone whose thoughts are a little closer to the here and now.



Don't get me started on the topic of moral authority.



Misty, you raise some valid points. I think we disagree on the secular/religious duality of life in the U.S., so I'll share my perspective on that. First, I take "secular" to mean "not pertaining to or connected with religion" (dictionary.com). None of us can avoid secular issues, which include things like building roads, treating water, enforcing laws, etc. These are tasks for which our government was created. Some of us, additionally, participate in religious life, but we are not compelled to do so.

When I speak out for the separation of church and state, I do not mean that secular and religious life are incompatible. I do not mean that we need laws forbidding religious practices. What I mean is that the laws governing us all should remain as distinct as possible from the religious laws and traditions that some of us subscribe to. To the greatest extent possible, the state should not mess around with the inner workings of the church, and vice-versa.



Yes, you pay taxes; yes, you deserve your vote; and in the eyes of the law, your opinions should matter just as much as mine. However, I would ask you to exercise restraint. Please do not support legislation that takes religious rules you've chosen to follow, and extends them to people who've made no such choice.



I disagree that abortion and embryonic stem cell research are forms of murder, and--so far--the law sides with me on this one. I see that, in both cases, something with the potential to become a person is being intentionally given to a different fate. I understand that this causes moral discomfort, and I don't have an easy answer for you. However, the term "murder" is inflammatory and inappropriate, chosen not for its accuracy but for its zing. Abortion has some features in common with murder, but I would say it has more in common with tumor excision.



I mentioned gay marriage earlier; this is one area where religious beliefs are clearly being foisted upon people who don't agree with them. Why is gay marriage wrong? I've never heard a plausible answer to that question that did not originate in religion--which is still optional in the U.S.A. I don't believe we should have any laws whatsoever that can be justified only through the lens of religion. But if you deceptively package something as "defense of marriage", you can mobilize the religious voting blocs I mentioned before. Suddenly, the religious reasoning you can't fairly apply to the situation (per separation of church and state) gets replaced with "the will of the people".

Answer 2

The separation is pretty illusory and is constantly being eroded. It was originally put into the Constitution so that the religious sects would not use the Government to persecute each other like they had been doing in Europe. They were killing each other over religion in the American Colonies before the revolution too.

16 years before the revolution Massachusetts hanged three Quakers just for being Quaker. That was an official execution.

There were many more religious executions and many religious exiles. The State of Rhode Island was founded by and for religious exiles from the other Colonies.

Wont it be great when religion rules the States again.



The Pilgrims are notworthy for instituting a reign of religious terror shortly after they landed which included many executions for heresy. Religious freedom my butt.

People should be taught about early American religion in its full bloody glory. Those Christian Principles included passing a law calling for disobedient children to be hanged in Jamestown



It says "In God We Trust," on the money because it was put there in 1957. Check the history of that with the treasury department. You can check out the history of the pledge of allegiance too.

Answer 3

it's not a matter of religious freedom, it's a matter of democracy. the majority rules. that's all there is to it. i know that's not what you want to hear, but it's the truth. as far as having the words ''in God we trust'' on our money, as a christian, i'd honestly like to see it removed. it's hypocritical to have something like that on our money, especially in america, but i won't go into that. i don't support abortion except in the case of rape or incest, for many reasons. there are loads of people lined up and waiting to adopt a child, and abortion is both physically and emotionally damaging to a woman, not to mention the fact that some of the methods used in abortion clinics are downright barbaric, to name a few. as far as stem cell research, i honestly don't know enough about it to have an opinion. at this time, i'm neither for it, nor against it. the separation between church and state is real, but we seem to forget that it goes two ways. it's not only there to protect the government from being influenced by the church, but to protect the church from being corrupted by the government.



the real problem is the utter lack of voters in this country. it's sad that it's such a rare thing for people to vote these days. the church encourages people to vote, because it's a part of our christian belief to be active in our government's affairs. churchgoers, like it or not, have every bit as much of a right to vote as you do. if you don't like the way things are going, form a group. hand out flyers. encourage people to vote and to get politically involved. i've done it before. you don't have to push any of your agendas on people, but encourage them to vote. i'm sure that if more ''normal'' people decided to vote in this country, things would change, but for the time being, christians have the upper hand in the political arena, simply because we tend to be active.

Answer 4

The ***PRAYNOGRAPHER*** will talk to this question, using fact his wisdumb is All understanding. you would be clever to take heed to his words of wisdumb.talking to the modification to the form with regard to faith, and government. It reads like this. the government shall no longer comprehend the enterprise of any faith, or block the enterprise of any faith. For you little ones of god that don't be responsive to what the be conscious comprehend potential please seem it up.a lot of you could't study ,or understand what you study. I The ***PRAYNOGRAPHER***will clarify it to you. comprehend: to show, or carry in severe regard for one factor over yet another Now do you think of you could decide what meaning. while it is composed of religions the government. could stay impartial. In different words stay out of the enterprise of merchandising , or demoting any faith,be break free,no longer motivate one over the different. Do the easy xristian minds in this panel get it. The***PRAYNOGRAPHER***thinks the term could say "The separation of church and techniques.i think of it would be risk-free to assert that xristians, a minimum of a lot of those I even have common , don't have a working techniques.they could be led around like a domestic dog on a leash. church homes do no longer pay their honest proportion in taxes,or do no longer pay any . Then they could stay out of a central authority they do no longer help. The ***PRAYNOGRAPHER***has spoken. Now go away and be born returned in the previous I spank you!!!!

Answer 5

But when we have hundreds of different religions in this country, why do we still have "In God we Trust" on our money?



The US Government is accountable to A HIGHER POWER. That is the tradition. The Government cannot just take away your ability to speak or to own property because of our rights! They cannot CHANGE OR ALTER our rights signifigantly, because they are not bestowed on us by the Government. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY WHAT YOU WANT REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT THE GOVERNMENT RESPECTS THAT RIGHT. The Pledge, In God We Trust, is merely reminding the Government that there are places were THEY DON'T BELONG. Think about marriage, the Government has no business in marrimage, but they did it. Don't blame chrisitans, power seeks more power Q.E.D.



And apparently stem-cell research--which could save millions of lives--is illegal because of the moral ramifications namely brought on by the Church.



Stem cell research is LEGAL!!!! USING PUBLIC MONEY FOR CERTAIN KINDS OF RESEARCH IS ILLEGAL. That is because part of that money is mine and I don't want them creating "clones" to harvest body parts... My choice with my money, that is fair... Certainly isn't unfair... Don't believe ALL of the hype about this subject.



Abortion - I will refer to the in God we trust... It maybe immoral, or at least distasteful, but WE HAVE RIGHTS and the GOVERNMENT MUST RESPECT THEM, AS THEY ARE NOT DERIVED FROM THE GOVERNMENT BUT FROM A HIGHER POWER. And that kind of thought process is ALSO a Christian Idea... so you can thank us later. So we have the right to have one... Even if it is distasteful / immoral or whatever. It is your right and the Government (as above) cannot tell you what to do in that matter.



Do you understand that? Governments used to govern all aspects of everything... In America, we say that there are things the Government CANNOT DO. Read the declaration of independence, it is pretty clear.



By the way, SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE IS NOT SEPERATION FROM CHURCH...



No one is "forcing" anyone else to do anything else. It is a debate going on between RIGHTS and FREEDOMS. They are not the same thing you know.



Example, I have the RIGHT TO SING OUT LOUD. SOmeone else on my street has the FREEDOM to not listen to it... It isn't a RIGHT to ignore me, it is a freedom, whereas it is my RIGHT to sing...

Answer 6

I think it's a little more complicated then that.



The Government is for the people. There are a lot of religious people. The idea of separation that you are proposing would be a government that is not for any religious people. I pay my taxes too.



Actually stem-cell research is funded and making progress...it's embryonic stem-cell research that is wrong because it requires the creation of an embryo (life) for the purpose of destruction. This is morally wrong...not just religiously wrong. Additionally, adult stem cell research has shown promise..so why not put our efforts there instead of imagining that embryos have better stem cells.



I am pro-life. My tax dollars fund abortions...where is the fairness in that? I think it's murder...yet I have no say in my money helping murder babies.



People are religious. People are non-religious. Your assumption that religious beliefs are being forced on you is no different then your secular beliefs being forced on me.

Answer 7

I totally agree with you on this. All the time I get from parents about how the government should take out evolution teachings from high school cause it contradicts the bible and it makes me mad cause they want everything under religion control.



Plus the way how people are saying gay marriage is wrong because god says it is so its illegal. What a load of crap!



Plus it seems that the only beliefs that this government only listens to are the christians, why don't we include the other religions in and hear what is their opinion

Answer 8

It DOESN'T help separation. Many don't CARE about separation. They think their faith is entitled to preferential treatment because they mistakenly consider this a "Christian" nation. Many suffer from a very warped view of religious freedom; yes, they support religious freedom so that we can be free..... to conform to THEIR behavioral standards, to adhere to THEIR "divine mandates", to legislate the specific dogmas and doctrines of THEIR faith into secular law. And most politicians, regardless of their particular religious preference, will pander to the largest constituency, and that just so happens to almost always be the Christian community.



Oh, right, and one of my favorite arguments: "But the EXACT phrase 'separation of church and state' doesn't appear in the Constitution! That must mean it doesn't exist!" Riiiiight... and then again, the EXACT phrase "right to a fair trial" isn't in the Constitution (only the right to a "speedy and public" trial). Neither is the EXACT phrase "right to privacy". I doubt those same people who deny the existence of a separation of church and state are also going to bark about the "nonexistence" of our right to a fair trial or to privacy. Hypocritical, wouldn't you say?



Freedom of religion means that the state can't force you to stop worshiping or living life free of worship as you see fit (within the boundaries of various local and federal laws) AND that the government cannot endorse, promote or favor any faith or deity, and cannot force the people to worship, pray to or pay respect to any faith or deity. For example, if the government stepped in and said "you cannot be an atheist" or "you cannot be a Buddhist", I'd be pissed. Similarly, if the government stepped in and told a Christian "you have to pray to Quetzalcoatl, the feathered serpent deity, 5 times daily", they'd have a fit.



That's what separation is all about. They can't force me or anyone else out of or into any faith or lack thereof. That especially means the government should NEVER be able to legislate based solely on religious doctrine. Allowing one particular faith to determine how every single individual in a country is required to live is a VIOLATION of the First Amendment right to freedom of religion (and if you don't understand "why" by this point, there's no need to explain further... you just don't get it).

Answer 9

Got across your question and it made me remember the times when it was occupied by the Soviets. The times when Church was separated from State. Lots of churches were closed then by the soviets, who dictated their brutal ideas about God and the ones who were church goers and believers in God. The only God for the Soviets was the communist party and KGB , who persecuted the God and freedom loving people, exiled them, put them into prisons for nothing or into asylums.Church was separated from school, too. People , especially the ones who worked for the government were not allowed to get married in Church, babtize their children nor go to church. KGB agents used to go to church to spy the people. Families were scared to celebrate Christian Holidays, like Christmas and Easter. It would be hard here for me to describe all this hard period of time under the Soviet regime when Church was seperated from State. 16 years ago our country regained its Independence , Church is no longer seperated from State. Due to our strong will powered people the roots of the nation's character were not cut down .On the contrary we have become stronger and we would never want Church to be separated from State.The Soviets with their Nazi KGB were hated by the whole world for many reasons, but one reason was that Church was seperated from State. In a free country Church will never be seperated from State. Nobody should be forced to live by somebody else's beliefs. That's what I have tried to explain to you, too.

Answer 10

In agreement.



To BERT:



Please read the Treaty of Tripoli. That pretty much negates your long-winded answer you so painstakingly typed. And, I'm sure many of the quotes you touted were taken out of context.



This is not a Christian country. Look it up sometime.

Answer 11

I am a Christian and I think it is good to have separation. I wouldn't want to force people to live under my religion just as I wouldn't want to be forced to live under anyone else's. For example sharia law. I wouldn't want to be woken up every morning at 5am or whatever by someone's public call to prayer. Just as I wouldnt want to force anyone to publically be interrupted by my religion.

Answer 12

The idea of seperation of Church and state, is often misunderstood. The perpous was really to keep the state from controlling the church, not to ban god from schools. Say we dismissed ALL principles related to religion. Let's make sure that ALL of the Ten Commandments are taken out of the government. Now let's just name a few. Murder, adultery, and stealing. The ten commandments flatly says not to do those three things. They also have laws as to not doing those. Now if we want COMPLEATE seperation, wouldnt we need to make sure there are no laws about those? Otherwise we're supporting Christianity. Well obviously it's morrally wrong to do those things. The bible and christian principles are filled with morals. The further away we stray from these morals, the more corrupt and violent the world becomes. We aren't forcing ANYONE to submit to any one religion. That was the perpous of that ammendment. We are free to think whatever we want. We do have seperation, more now than ever. Seperation DOES exist, if anything, atheism is being forced on the world. I DO belive that atheism is a religion just as any other. So, there is seperation, that ammendment was NEVER ment to mean COMPLEATE seperation, just that the state CANNOT control the church, and NO religion is forced on ANYONE.

Answer 13

There's nothing illegal about stem cell research. The question is about government funding.



"In God We Trust" is traditional since the founders days. It's harmless enough. If you don't believe in God just disregard it.

Answer 14

BERT: so what religion did the Founders want forced down my atheist throat? or am allowed that much control over the sanctity of my own feckin' mind?

Answer 15

We have "In God We Trust" on our currency because it was put there in the 1950s, no thanks to the efforts of the Knights of Columbus and the whole "Red Scare". Ditto for the words "under God" added to the pledge.



Are there any valid (informed), secular reasons for not supporting stem-cell research, or for passing laws that make abortion flat-out illegal under any circumstances? None that I can think of.

Answer 16

What we now call "Separation of Church and State" was dreamed up quite recently. This is why it says "IN GOD WE TRUST" on our money.



The founding fathers thot that religion was good for society. The constitution was not meant to stop religious public life. The constitution was meant to protect religion! The Bible was taught in public schools from the beginning until recently.



The "separation" is not real. It never was. People have been trying to twist the constitution, but it will only go so far. If you want a real separation of church and state, you would need to throw out the Constitution and write a new one.



Please, why don't you instead move to another country. Take your pick.



Religion is outlawed in China. Perhaps we can take up a collection at church for your one-way ticket.



Thanks.

Answer 17

The majority of those in power are still Christians or cater to a christian constituency so it is understandable that christian values still permeate American politics and law. This will probably continue.



Be careful what you wish for. In the past extreme liberalism has caused a swing in societies views and turned them ultra conservative (Look sin! Second coming near!). Free societies can suddenly turn very oppressive. And normally middle of the road religious people can turn ultra fundamentalists.



Count your blessings and give them what they need to keep them calm...

Answer 18

Pat O -



Where in the US Constitution do you find: God, Jesus, or Christianity? ANS: nowhere, not once. The issue was discussed and the Founding Fathers voted God out, intentionally. The democratic republic they crafted was the first 100% secular government in human history.

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Article VI states that representatives take an oath to the (secular) Constitution, not the Bible or any god’s law:





•“The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

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Even having a Congressional Chaplain is a violation of the ‘establishment’ language of the Constitution – but then, that is only the opinion of the men who wrote and signed the document.



James Madison (Father of the US Constitution) addressed the issue of Congressional Chaplains.



•“Is the appointment of Chaplains to the two Houses of Congress consistent with the Constitution, and with the pure principle of religious freedom? In strictness the answer on both points must be in the negative."



•"The Constitution of the U. S. forbids everything like an establishment of a national religion. The law appointing Chaplains establishes a religious worship for the national representatives… Does not this involve the principle of a national establishment, applicable to a provision for a religious worship for the Constituent as well as of the representative Body, approved by the majority, and conducted by Ministers of religion paid by the entire nation?”



•“The establishment of the chaplainship to Congs is a palpable violation of equal rights, as well as of Constitutional principles: The tenets of the chaplains elected [by the majority shut the door of worship agst the members whose creeds & consciences forbid a participation in that of the majority. To say nothing of other sects, this is the case with that of Roman Catholics & Quakers who have always had members in one or both of the Legislative branches. Could a Catholic clergyman ever hope to be appointed a Chaplain! To say that his religious principles are obnoxious or that his sect is small, is to lift the evil at once and exhibit in its naked deformity the doctrine that religious truth is to be tested by numbers or that the major sects have a tight to govern the minor.”



http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/...



You can replace ‘Catholic’ with ‘Hindu’ or ‘Muslim’ or whatever in the second quotation. They are all the same and equal (and separate from the public sector) in the eyes of the Federal Government.



Here are a couple more Madison quotes, showing that Jefferson was not unique in speaking of a ‘Separation’ between Church and State:



•Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and & Gov't in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history (Detached Memoranda, circa 1820).



•Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together (Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822).



http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/qmadiso...

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By unamimous vote of the 1797 US Congress and signed into law by President John Adams:



•“As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,…”



http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/barbary/bar1796t.htm

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"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies."



-Benjamin Franklin

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"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."



James Madison

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"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors."



"Religions are all alike – founded upon fables and mythologies."



"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."



"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."



–Thomas Jefferson

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"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.”



- Thomas Paine

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"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."



-Abraham Lincoln

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Finally, don’t you feel the least bit guilty insulting someone else’s intelligence and education when you, in fact, are doing no more than repeating things you were told to think because you are either too intellectually lazy to figure anything out for yourself or simply lack the aptitude for critical thought?



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that_guy_drew -



America is not a democracy - it is as simple as that - read the US Constitution sometime.

Answer 19

The State and Church are growing farther appart...

Answer 20

Where in the constitution do you find any mention of a separation between church and state?



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You want to live in a society without without religion in government? Perhaps you haven't been paying attention the last 60 or so years, it's been tried and failed miserably. Maybe you never heard of Hitler, or Stalin, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Min, Mao Tse Tung, Mussolini, Idi Amin, or any other of what are probably some of your favorite atheist leaders.



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The constitution does provide for a right to a fair trial, it's called the 6th amendment. As far as there being a right to privacy, no,there is no blanket provision ensuring us privacy. The 4th amendment protects us against "unreasonable" searches and seizures, but that is subjective, and would have to be determined on a case by case basis.



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So much for civility, and I don't see that Jesus has been mentioned anywhere in my post. Tell me, if there is no moral authority to which you look, by what authority do you declare that killing is wrong? The determination that killing is wrong was not a government construct, and is firmly rooted in religious belief.



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zerocool; It is apparent that the quality of ones answers is not part of the criteria for determining who is a top contributor, merely the quantity of questions answered is considered.



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RD; People who don't think for themselves spend a good deal of time quoting others. There are other quotes by these same people making clear their belief in God, but I am sticking to the text of those documents that pertain to the establishment of our country. Which I am fully aware is not a democracy, it never was, it is a representative republic. I think I learned that in about fourth grade. The preamble of the constitution states that, "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." The constitution was establish, in part, to secure unto ourselves the Blessings of Liberty. From where do these blessings arise? For you to assert that they are not of God, and that the founding fathers, "voted God out" flies in the face of what we are given in our seminal document, the Declaration of Independence. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." They also stated at the closing of the document, "with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence," Our founding fathers opened the Declaration with God, and closed it with God as well.

Answer 21

I have alot to say on the subject... however you said to keep it civil so... I remain silent...

Answer 22

Our nation was founded as a Christian nation even though this fact has all but been erased from our history books. We were intended to have freedom of religion not freedom from religion.They're building an Islamic school in New York right now with tax payers money. You think they'd build a Christian one? Of course not. It's the Christian faith that has been turned on since the court ruling in 1947 erecting a wall of separation of church and state. Maybe you people will be happy when the Muslims take over and enforce Islamic law and you have to convert or die. You'll see then that the Christian way of conversion by free will is a much more tolerant way to go.



"America seeks no earthly empire built on blood and force. No ambition, no temptation, lures her to thought of foreign dominions. The legions which she sends forth are armed, not with the sword, but with the cross. The higher state to which she seeks the allegiance of all mankind is not of human, but of divine origin. She cherishes no purpose save to merit the favor of Almighty God."



~ Calvin Coolidge, 30th American President



1 Chrisropher Columbus was motivated by his Christian faith to make his difficult voyage.

2 The Pilgrims clearly stated that they came to the New World to glorify God and to advance the Christian faith.

3 The Puritans who followed the Pilgrims to New England, created a Bible based commonwealths in order to practice a representative government that was modeled on their church covenants. Their more than 100 governmental covenants and compacts essentially laid the foundation for Americas Constitution, which was drafted in 1787 and ratified in 1789.

4 This nation was founded in large measure as a sanctuary for religious dissidents, seeking asylum from religious pesecution and seeking the opportunity to live in freedom under the laws of God.

5 The education of the settlers and the founders of America was uniquely Christian and Bible based.More than 40% of the signers of the Declaration of Independence had seminary degrees.

6 The Great Awakening, areligious revival, was a key factor in uniting the seperate pre - Revelutionary War colonies and increasing communication among them.

7 Many of the clergy in American colonies "preached liberty" The pulpits of New England were especially important in helping to bring about independence.. Long before the general population understood the threat to American liberty, some colonial ministers saw what was coming and boldly spoke out about it from their pulpits.

8 Biblical Christianity was the driving force behind the men who championed American independence.

9 Christianity played a significant role in the development of our nations birth certificate, the Declaration of Independence.The Declaration of Independence metions God four times.

10 The Biblical understanding of the sinfullness of man was the guiding principle behind the United States Constitution.. The framers of the Constitution drew their inspiration from the Bible. They intended America to be one nation under God.





George Washington

Taken straight from George Washingtons prayer journal..

O most glorious God in Jesus Christ, my merciful and loving father, I acknowledge and confess my guilt, in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day..I have called on Thee for pardon and forgiveness of sins...sounds pretty Christian to me.Unless diests pray to Jesus.Not!



official actions of Jefferson -

legislative and military chaplains

establishing a national seal using a religious symbol

including the word" God " in our national motto

official days of fasting and prayer at the state level

punishing sabbath breakers

punishing marriages contrary to biblical lawpunishing irreverent soldiers

protecting the property of churches

requiring oaths saying "so help me God takenon the Bible

granting land to Christian churches to reach the Indians

granting land to Christian schools

Allowing government property and facilitiesto be used for worship

using the Bible and non denominational religious publications to be used in public schools(He was involved in three different school districts and the plan in each one of these required that the Bible be taught in each our public schools

Allowing clergymen to hold pubic office, and encouraging them to do so

Purchasing religious books to stock public libraries

funding clergy salaries in Indian mission schools

Funding construction of church building for Indians

Exempting churches from taxation

Establishing professional schools of theology( He wanted to over fromGeneva, Switzerland the entire faculty of Calvin's theological seminary and establish it at the University of Virginia)

Treaties requiring other nations to guarantee religious freedom

including religious speeches and prayers in ceremonies

Doesn't sound like the actions of one who would remove the freedom of worship or "separate church and state." The separation of church and state IS NOT in our Constitution!



John Adams proposed that when Americas future citizens celebrated The Declaration of Independence, they should have religious services to thank God for what He had brought about. President Adams said Independence Day should" be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary festival, commemorated as the day of deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty, from one end of the continent to the other, from this time forward and forevermore."



John Adams wrote and distributed a book for 10 year olds that was to teach them how to read the Bible while he was in office.



John Adams warned his countrymen:

We have no government armed with power capable of controlling with human passions, unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strong cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholy in adequate to the government of any other.



The vast majority of delegates who attended the Constitutional Convention were professing Christians. Only Ben Franklin and James Wilson of Pennsylvania were known to be Deists.



Ben Franklins speech at the Constitutional Convention:

Mr. President. The small progress we have made after four or five weeks close attendance and continual reasoning with each other - our different sentiments on almost every question, several of the last producing as many noes as ayes, is me thinks a meloncholy proof of the imperfection of the human understanding.

We indeed seem to feel our own want of political wisdom, since we have been running about in search of it. We have gone back to ancient history for models of government, and examined the different forms of those republics which, have been formed with the seeds of their own dissolution, now no longer exist.And we have viewed modern states all around Europe, but find none of their Constitutions suitable to our circumstances.

In this situation of this assembly, groping as it were in the dark, to find political truth and scarce able to distinguish it when presented to us, how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of lights to illuminate our understanding?

In the beginning of the contes with Great Britan, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayer in this room for Divine protection - Our prayers,Sir, were heard & they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a superintending Providence in our favor.

To that kind of Providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity.And have we now forgotten that powerful Friend?Or do we imagine that we no longer need His assistance?

I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth - that God governs in the affairs of men.And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice , it is probable that an empire can rise without His aid?

We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that "except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it"(Psalm 127:1) I firmly believe this; I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the Builders of Babel: we shall be divided by our partial local interests: our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages.

And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by human wisdom, and leave it to chance, war and conquest.

I therefor beg leave to move - that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of heaven, and it's blessings on our deliberations, be held in this assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service."



Here was probably the least religious of the Founding Fathers calling for prayer and quoting scripture

Congress has opened every session with prayer from the first (September1774)to the most recent.