Respectful question for Christians who don't believe in evolution?

Question

Background: I was told I could not have salvation if I believed in evolution in a non-denomination Christian church in 2000.

Do you believe that people who do believe in evolution of man from another species in the past are not saved by Jesus and can not be saved by Jesus? If so, do you have a scriptural basis for this?

How do you feel about people who do believe in evolution and believe they are saved because they believe in Jesus's death and resurrection?

Also, please explain 1 Kings 7:23; upon plain reading I read that a building is to be built that has a radius of 10 cubics and a circumference of 30 cubics. This seems to be word for word instructions from God. Is this an error somewhere because pi which is the ratio of circumference to radius is approxametely 3.14 in all other circles; was the author of 1 Kings 7:23 a bad math student and disregarded God or is the translation in English wrong? Please explain I'm trying to understand this.

Answer 1

First of all, you can't read. Let alone understand.



10 cubits from brim to brim. 5 cubits high. 30 cubits in circumference.



The enormous reservoir of water corresponded to the Bronze basin made for the Tabernacle. It's water was used by the priests for ritual cleansing. "30 cubits", Technically speaking, this should be 31.416 cubits because of the ten cubit diameter of the circular top. Thirty may be a round number here, or the measurement was taken a bit below the rim on the "inside" circumference.



This, YOU don't know.



And NO, you have found no error. Only in your own mind.

Answer 2

1 cubit = 45.72 centimeters

If the circumference is 1371.6 cm the radius would be 218.2965



This is a good point. The answer seems to be that Pi in the bible is not Pi. I found this on-line:

Three is a first approximation to PI. As far as we know PI is a number with no exact solution in other words it is likely to have a very large number of decimals. If we take the argument to its logical conclusion we can say that if the Bible came from an infinite God then he should express PI exactly (and the Bible would be full of numbers). In fact he used men to express his word and to the men of that day three is a good approximation. If the author were an artisan then no doubt he would say that PI is three and a bit.



We also understand that the rim was a handbreadth in thickness or about 7.4 cm. The cubit is 44.45 cm.



If we use 10 as the diameter then the circumference should be 31.42. If we use 30 for the circumference then the diameter should be 9.548.



Hebrew System

qaneh (reed)=6 cubits=8 feet 9 inches (2.67 meters)

ammah (cubit)=6 hand breadths=17.5 inches (44.45 centimeters)

zeret (span)=1/2 cubit=8.75 inches (23.2 centimeters)

topah or tepah (hand breadth)=1/6 cubit=2.9 inches (7.4 centimeters)

esba (finger)=.73 inch (1.85 centimeters) (4 fingers=1 handbreadth)

Gleason L. Archer, Jr. EBC Vol 1



...there is more. Here is the web site:

http://www.apocalipsis.org/difficulties/pi.htm





...I just spent entirely too much time on this little math problem...

Answer 3

To receive salvation, you need to give your life to Jesus and accept the sacrifice that He made for you and all of us on the cross. If you do this, have done this then I understand that you are saved.



Christianity isn't compatible with evolution because evolution doesn't even include GOD in its worldview, not surprising since it is supposed to be a scientific theory.



I believe that the only person or people whom Jesus cannot save are those whom refuse to accept Him into their lives. The only scriptural basis for salvation is that which is in the New Testament and it doesn't say anything about evolution.



If they believe in evolution and believe they are saved, my heart truly goes out to them as I wouldn't want to be in such a situation; to clarify, I say this because I believe that evolution is incompatible with faith in GOD and therefore they may be troubled by the contradictions, if not right away then perhaps over time.



Regarding 1 Kings 7:23, I would have to see the Bible you're referring to but I believe you may have misunderstood the term used. The scripture is talking about a bathing pool in the temple.



As far as the accuracy of the measurements, they didn't know the measurement of pi at that time, perhaps it wasn't a perfect circle?



I hope I've been of some help to you...

Answer 4

My religion like most others encourages and adopts the Biblical account of the creation as literal. But no one has ever said anything about not being saved because you believe in evolution. Actually I think that is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard today. Of course you'll be saved by Jesus - so long as you are trying to do the things he taught in order to receive salvation. But I don't remember the part of the Beatitudes that says you go to hell for believing in scientific theories.



I look at it this way - God is the Creator, Master Scientist, Doctor, Artist, Musician, everything. If he wanted to used the principle of evolution as a means by which to create - well that's up to him. Some think the Biblical account of the creation is a parable, or that people from a simpler time wouldn't have understood the science behind it so God didn't put it in. But really in the end it's all speculation. As much as I think it would be cool to know how to make a person out of clay - we are all just going to have to wait and ask God about it the next time we see Him. In the meantime just love and follow his Son and don't worry about these other things which are significant to your eternal salvation.



As for the other bit in Kings - it sounds less like direct instructions from God and more like a "Hey look what I built, it was about this big and about that tall. Maybe they were just rounding up. Also the last bit says "and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about," I wonder if the took their measurements a bit differently and the translation came out weird. Again it's still all speculation. But Noah's ark didn't sink and God told him how to build that, so I'm thinking it's probably not a problem with God's math skills. ;)

Answer 5

Since "time" was not created until the 4th day - no human knows what happen nor for how long.



I think part of the answer is to remember this wasn't a document for Math students. The item build was a reservoir of water holding approx 11,500 gals to be used for ritual cleaning by the priests.

As noted by another the thickness likely was not included as the measurements were most likely given only so the reader and/or the listeners would understand that this thing was BIG.

Answer 6

The exact ratio of the diameter and the circumference of a circle is 3.1416 to ten; but only a nit-picker could criticize the round numbers of 3 to 10 (or 10 to 30) which we find here.

I don't see how anyone who believes in evolution can in turn believe and do what God has spoken and commanded.

Answer 7

A relationship with God is not dependent on how you believe the earth came about. The more you come to know God, the more you understand about his word as the Spirit of God guides you in your journey.

In regards to 1 Kings, this gigantic laver which was used for the priests' washing was ten cubits across when measured from outside rim to outside rim, but the inside measurement was two hand breadths (six in) less. This inside measurement was apparently used when calculating the circumference as thirty cubits. It contained two thousand baths (about 22 liters ea.)

Answer 8

This is a good question. My belief is that people were created from the "seed" (DNA) of God. Where his DNA came from? I won't even speculate. No one has an answer to that one. Although I would like to know that myself.



As far as my feelings about Christians that believe in evolution...

Some consider it evil and a blasphemy.

MY ANGLE: The Bible tells me it's not my place to judge.



"Let those who do good do good, let those who do evil do evil."



In as far as the third question. The Bible, as I'm sure you are aware was written in Aramaic and Greek. Both of which are alpha-numeric. Kings, as part of the Old Testament, was written in Aramaic. So far, my understanding is that at the time of writing, values of less than one were not understood (as was the concept of zero). Realizing this, God(inspiration of the word) dictated a simple and rounded number to the physical author of the word. As a being of omniscience, he knew that including a concept such as "pi" could confuse simple people, and confusion could hinder the spreading of his word.



If something utterly confused you, would you try to explain it to someone else?

Answer 9

As far as the math, I'll have to work it. But was this the difference between inside and outside measurement, neglecting thickness? Cubits, if i=that was the measure wasn't too precise as it was from elbow to finger tip (I think).

I used to believe in evolution when I was saved until I really understood what it really meant.

Those who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. See also Romans 10: 9,10.

Answer 10

Intelligent design. Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Or... What if man and everything else was evolving along in a dream world that did not physically exist and 6,000 years ago God made that whole dream word physical and everything has continued on here just like it did there? We don't know what we are talking about. None of us do. Please, can we stop the war and fear mongering over things that we do not understand...

Answer 11

Yeaahhh. My brain hurts, too. But which is the real question? Why is it too hard for anyone to conceive the idea that God MADE evolution? isnt a wonder and a miracle that things just know how to grow? So why is evolution then so far fetched for some Christians? They probably shud grow, too.

Answer 12

(Matthew 10:22) 22 And YOU will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my name; but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.



(Matthew 7:21) 21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.

brim to brim.

(1 Kings 7:23) 23 And he proceeded to make the molten sea ten cubits from its one brim to its other brim, circular all around; and its height was five cubits, and it took a line of thirty cubits to circle all around it.

Answer 13

You can't completely deny evolution. It DOES exist, and it's happening all the time. Whether you want to believe it's where we came from or not should be the deciding factor. Just believing in evolution doesn't mean you have to suddenly abort any and all religion. Evolution is there, but it doesn't have to be where you came from.

Answer 14

actually there is a couple of scientists who have written books and where interviewed on NPR Science Friday about this very subject. Goto the NPR podcast directory and pull up their program from Aug. 4.

good stuff and well worth listing to.

Answer 15

That's rediculous! Of course you can be saved, even if you do believe in evolution, whoever told you that b.s. shouldn't be in church. No. That they are saved through his grace. Well if you had read on, it might say what those instructions were actually for.

Answer 16

Your belief in evolution is not a factor in the Biblical concept of salvation by faith in Jesus.

Answer 17

The cubits.. I dunno.. I will have to research that.



But as for evoluton, belief in it has nothing to do with salvation. For salvation you only need to believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord and confess it with your mouth.



After that, whether you believe in evolution is a different issue.

Answer 18

Pi: You have to study it here is a good study:



http://bibleprobe.com/pi.htm



Pi works out very well

Answer 19

Whoa my brain hurts. Good question.